Reading the House Health Bill - no WONDER the left is mad!

[CTLawGuy]

I mean it only allows ANYONE who doesn't have acceptable insurance coverage to buy into an exchange which has a public option that is available the same as any private plan offered. :eyes: That will cover like four people. :eyes: Clearly that's inadequate and "designed to fail"!(TM)


http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

"SEC. 302. EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOY
10 ERS.
11 (a) ACCESS TO COVERAGE.—In accordance with this
12 section, all individuals are eligible to obtain coverage
13 through enrollment in an Exchange-participating health
14 benefits plan offered through the Health Insurance Ex
15 change unless such individuals are enrolled in another
16 qualified health benefits plan or other acceptable coverage. <p. 156; bolding is mine>

* * *

SEC. 321. ESTABLISHMENT AND ADMINISTRATION OF A
8 PUBLIC HEALTH INSURANCE OPTION AS AN
9 EXCHANGE-QUALIFIED HEALTH BENEFITS
10 PLAN.
11 (a) ESTABLISHMENT.—For years beginning with Y1,
12 the Secretary of Health and Human Services (in this sub13
title referred to as the ‘‘Secretary’’) shall provide for the
14 offering of an Exchange-participating health benefits plan
15 (in this division referred to as the ‘‘public health insurance
16 option’’) that ensures choice, competition, and stability of
17 affordable, high quality coverage throughout the United
18 States in accordance with this subtitle. In designing the
19 option, the Secretary’s primary responsibility is to create
20 a low-cost plan without compromising quality or access to
21 care.
22 (b) OFFERING AS AN EXCHANGE-PARTICIPATING
23 HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN.—
24 (1) EXCLUSIVE TO THE EXCHANGE.—The pub
25 lic health insurance option shall only be made avail
26 able through the Health Insurance Exchange. <p.211; bolding mine>

* * *

16 (f) TREATMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH INSURANCE OP
17 TION.—With respect to the public health insurance option,
18 the Secretary shall be treated as a QHBP offering entity
19 offering an Exchange-participating health benefits plan." <p.213; bolding mine>

--------------------------

Thank goodness for the brave DUers speaking out against our demonic corporate owned president. We should have known about his corporate greed when he became a community organizer, civil rights lawyer and law professor. I mean growing up a BLACK MAN in America? He clearly knows nothing except wealth and privilege. Thank you oh brave dissidents for opening our eyes with your bold conjecture, speculation and baseless questioning of motives. And thank you for not confusing us with facts or perspective or context.

I mean we wouldn't want to be cheerleaders, you know, those people who don't assume the worst of intentions and the worst of outcomes.

You keep on trucking, and when enough liberals are marinated in your truth telling about our corporate owned president until they are coated in paralytic cynicism, they will stay home in 2012 and the new Republican power brokers who inevitably take Obama's place will certainly give us every health care wish we desire.

[pnwmom]

1. How dare you actually read and quote from the actual bill? That's so unfair.

:sarcasm:

[CTLawGuy]

2. that's true

maybe the bill is lying... about... itself...

[Zodiak]

3. Your entire premise rests on what the definition of "acceptable" means

And you offer zero information regarding that critical word in your selected text.

Please define "acceptable".

Does an "acceptable" plan mean minimal catastrophic coverage with a $10,000 deductible?

For that matter, what is the meaning of the word "affordable" in the context of your selected text?

Without any of this, your OP is simply another attempt at spin. The CBO says few Americans will be in the public option ten years from now. That is not spin, but the result of a non-partisan study by which nearly all laws are tested before implementation. Also, the same CBO study says that the public option will have higher premiums....mostly because the structure of the law effectively makes it a dumping ground for the sick and uninsurable. Because of the POs weakness, it is also unlikely to affect the price of the private insurance plans.

If you want to counter the information given out by the CBO, quoting a few paragraphs of a 2000 page bill in the absence of any definitions is not the way to do it. I would also think that anyone with "Lawguy" in their handle would know the importance of legal definitions in bills, so I highly suspect an attempt to spin here.

The sarcastic tone of the entire post also indicates an unwillingness to engage but rather, ridicule.

[joeycola]

4. Ridicule used to used exclusively by Rovians, now many Dems

have use it to ridicule other Dems who only want to have a discussion.

"The sarcastic tone of the entire post also indicates an unwillingness to engage but rather, ridicule."

[truedelphi]

28. This really fed-up guy running for President used to rag on the unwieldiness of

Such legislation.

He would go on and on about how if people voted for him, he'd see to it that there would be transperency in legislation.

I never heard of what happened to that guy.

I think he ended up joining this sad sack here, who while running for the Illinois seat in the Senate tried very hard to campaign on Universal Single Payer Health Care:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

[SpartanDem]

8. The definition of acceptable coverage

QHBP's are insurance plans that meet all the new federal rules.

ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE- For purposes of this division, the term `acceptable coverage' means any of the following:

(A) QUALIFIED HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN COVERAGE- Coverage under a qualified health benefits plan.

(B) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE; COVERAGE UNDER CURRENT GROUP HEALTH PLAN- Coverage under a grandfathered health insurance coverage (as defined in subsection (a) of section 202) or under a current group health plan (described in subsection (b) of such section).

(C) MEDICARE- Coverage under part A of title XVIII of the Social Security Act.

(D) MEDICAID- Coverage for medical assistance under title XIX of the Social Security Act, excluding such coverage that is only available because of the application of subsection (u), (z), or (aa) of section 1902 of such Act.

(E) MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES AND DEPENDENTS (INCLUDING TRICARE)- Coverage under chapter 55 of title 10, United States Code, including similar coverage furnished under section 1781 of title 38 of such Code
(F) VA- Coverage under the veteran's health care program under chapter 17 of title 38, United States Code.

(G) OTHER COVERAGE- Such other health benefits coverage, such as a State health benefits risk pool, as the Commissioner, in coordination with the Secretary of the Treasury, recognizes for purposes of this paragraph.

[Zodiak]

25. All of that is unclear...not one minimum provision given

It all refers to other bills...got those bill to check?

[ProSense]

9. Nonsense. One thing that doesn't change

is that people still can opt out of employer coverage:

(2) OPT-OUT.—In no case may an employer automatically enroll an employee in a plan under paragraph (1) if such employee makes an affirmative election to opt out of such plan or to elect coverage under an employment-based health benefits plan offered by such employer. An employer shall provide an employee with a 30-day period to make such an affirmative election before the employer may automatically enroll the employee in such a plan.

People can opt out now and they will still have the choice to opt out when reform passes.

[johnaries]

13. You obviously misunderstand the entire purpose of the Public Option.

The purpose of the PO is not to enroll vast numbers of Americans. It's purpose is to offer competition to keep premiums down and coverage up. The CBO also says that under the HR 3962 Bill 96% of Americans would be insured as opposed to the current 83%. The bill also includes consumer protections from the private providers.

It doesn't matter if they are on the PO or private plans. As long as they get insurance that they can afford and it covers their needs. Focus on what is important.

[eridani]

16. Without enrolling vast numbers to get a big risk pool, you can't hold costs down

Insurance that doesn't pay when you need it is absolutely worthless, and not in any way acceptable.

[Zodiak]

27. The purpose was to keep costs down by providing competition

No competition from the PO will come from this bill...enrollees will be too few and their rick too high, not to mention their payouts are tied to private healthcare (making it impossible to negotiate better prices). That is the word of the CBO.

And it doesn't matter if 96% of Americans are enrolled IF THEY GO BANKRUPT PAYING FOR IT. All we did was create a new problem to replace the old (not that medical bankruptcy wasn't a problem before).

There are no cost controls in this bill.

But none of this matters.....what does matter is that the OP is trying to use sarcasm, ridicule, and a couple of paragraphs from a 1900 bills that tells an incomplete story.

Perhaps you should have focused on my POINT first.

[CTLawGuy]

14. and the people who call Obama

a corporate sellout, they are interested in debate?

[Zodiak]

24. How can you tell if you start out like this?

Answer: you cannot.

Be the change you want to see

[90-percent]

5. 1900 pages

One thing that really makes my eyes glaze over is legislation.

I don't have the mind to read any more than two paragraphs of this stuff!

My question is:

Are there reliable people out there that can read and digest this stuff and turn it into understandable information?

My second question is:

Are there loop hole ologists out there that can find all the loopholes put in there by industry lobbyists that tend to render bills useless, or else serve very narrow interests at the expense of the people.

Like - is there a left leaning "legislation interpretation service" out there digesting this thing?

CTLawguy is doing such work, apparently. That's what I'm saying. I need somebody like Rachel or Keith to get this thing read and interpreted and tell me if it's really any good or not. Obfuscation, you know. I'm wary of this and especially those good old unintended consequences.

Thanks

-90% Jimmy

[Hutzpa]

17. Hire a Republican

:evilgrin:

[HopeOverFear]

6. Facts have no place here, sir

[QC]

10. In the Era of Responsibility in which we now live, facts are indispensable. n/t

[sandnsea]

7. Employed people must get their insurance from their employer

Yes. That is true. Unless the payroll is less than $500,000, then if the employer doesn't provide coverage, the employee can go to the exchange.

How can the employer be expected to manage a hodge-podge of insurance as well as have their own premiums go up if people leave the pool. It's flat stupid to expect anything different. Who does the payroll around here?

[Cha]

11. Thanks, CT Law Guy

aka, darboy for bringing some facts on DU!

[bvar22]

12. Quick....Somebody tell Obama and the CBO.

They think it is only available to those currently uninsured.

Boy, will they be glad to find this out.

[eridani]

15. Left out the part about how much the mandated insurance is going to cost

If you are covered by your employer, no matter how crappy the coverage is, you will not be allowed into the public option. Most employers will not be allowed in.

[dflprincess]

18. Also neglected to mention the large out of pockets that will be permited

in addition to up to 11% of income going toward premiums, and that dental and vision will not be covered nor will those expenses count toward the annual "cost-sharing" maximum

And there was no mention that coverage does not equal access to care.

[Avalux]

23. "no matter how crappy the coverage is"

That's not true. Current coverage must be qualified as outlined in the bill or an individual can opt for the exchange.

[uponit7771]

19. Kick, I'm still waiting for the final bill but this this debate is important

[tsuki]

20. I don't understand your sarcasm. What has Obama to do with the

present legislation?

[uponit7771]

21. Nothing, that's PART of the sarcasm the other part is the strength in Public Option in house bill

[Avalux]

22. Qualified and Acceptable.

Those two words are key. If current coverage isn't qualified (as outlined in the bill) and acceptable (as outlined in the bill), then an individual has the right to join the exchange.

What I want to see is a comparison of coverage of major health insurance plans vs. what's listed in the bill. How many will qualify?

[Better Believe It]

26. So why should we support a terrible bill written by the insurance industry and big Pharma?

Don't you think we deserve a bill that serves the interests of the working class majority, rather than the interests of big business lobbyists and their political whores in Congress?