He hasn't done enough.

[dave29]

I want to shoot myself straight through the head whenever I hear anyone say this about Barack. Why?

Think back to 2001, this time. Think about what Bush Jr had accomplished by sitting around doing squat other than letting his handlers run rough-shod all over the world making it just a little worse for all of us. By this time in his Presidency the seeds had been planted for:

1) Iraq Invasion/collapse of US Global standing/Squandering of 9/11 global support.
2) Enron
3) Arthur Anderson
4) Duke Energy
5) Plame

You know the list, it goes on and on and on and on. And it all was falling into place by Nov 5th 2001. He accomplished planting these seeds by vacationing, making an ass of himself, and clearing brush.

Contrast that with Obama's accomplishments, and the seeds that have been planted as of Nov 5th 2009.

1) Health Care Reform will happen, regardless of people's fear of "change"
2) The world ALREADY is showing respect towards America again
3) Energy Reform WILL happen
4) Staving off Complete Economic collapse.
5) Actually movement in the direction of Equal Rights.

But, oh yeah, I forgot, he isn't moving fast enough, or at all. He's a secret corporatist. He is only playing lip service to progressives.

People who think Obama hasn't done enough should think about what GWB "accomplished" by the time he finished 8 years, by basically doing squat. That list up top got a whole lot longer. Katrina, Bank Failures, Politicization of the Justice Dept, complete economic collapse.... you name it.

Now we have Obama actually working towards change, slowly, methodically, and.... he is already deemed a failure by some around these parts. To you folks I say: get over it, and get to work. The only way we will reach our goals is... together.

Yes we can.

[Cha]

1. Thanks, but you're

wasting your time with the perpetual bitter haters and the rest of us know full well what all he's accomplished so far.

Thanks for your appreciation, dave:)

[onehandle]

2. America is a big complicated machine. Smart Presidents know this. Bush not so much.

LOL! I posted my subject line before you added the photo.

That's Exactly the image I had in mind.

I'm a friggin' mind reader!


:)

[dave29]

6. All I could think was, for those who think Obama is a failure, I present to you:

George W. Bush on a bike

[onehandle]

7. To be fair, I have mountain biked and pretty much looked the same in similar gear.

Nobody should want me to be President either.

[dave29]

10. how frequently do you hit pedestrians

I think that is the qualifying Presidential trait ;)

[AspenRose]

74. Not the Segway?

I mean, Obama looks pretty nerdy on a bike. :D

[quiet.american]

3. K&R nt

[Clio the Leo]

4. My advice......

..... count the recs and not the replies. ;)

I think we have a lot of lurking cheerleaders. :hi:

[Gidney N Cloyd]

5. Rec'd.

[timeforpeace]

8. Well, he hasn't done enough sounds a lot better than he hasn't done anything.

[mecherosegarden]

9. K&R

Although I think the picture should come with a warning!
:rofl: :rofl:

[FLyellowdog]

I wish it had 'cause

I already puked. :puke:

[ThomCat]

11. False comparison.

The only comparison isn't between Obama and Bush.

How about comparing Obama the president against Obama the candidtate? or what Obama says vs what he does?

Your post is just another way of telling disappointed people that they should shut up and be happy with whatever little bit is getting done, as if that little bit is somehow wonderful and momentous.

Obama could have done so much more if he was a real leader. The fact is, he has no spine. He talks pretty, but then he gives in to lobbyists on every issue every time. He gives in to the republicans in the name of bipartisanship over and over again.

He and his Administration have kept and supported Bush policies that are atrocious and hateful, that no democrat should ever have accepted for even a moment in office. No previous president has ever kept so much of the policy from a previous president, and then claimed that it was necessary or required.

The excuse that everything takes time falls apart when previous presidents have been able to implement much more aggressive and expansive policy changes much more quickly. (for example, going from Reagan/Bush to Clinton) Previous presidents have been able to make a lot more nominations for open positions a lot more quickly, and have been able to support their nominations far more than Obama has shown himself willing to do. Previous presidents also weren't afraid of using executive orders. Obama isn't showing that he is as productive as either Clinton or Carter were with using a President's authority.

All he is showing us is that he is timid, and that his management style is to embrace minimal changes in slow steps that won't offend any lobbyists and industries.

You may be happy with this, but a growing number of people every day are very dissatisfied with the lack of leadership and the lack of courage. This isn't the change people were promised.

[dave29]

13. Your comparisons are just as false.

And I'm not telling anyone to shut up.

So get over it.

There is no way to do an apples to apples comparison. Your bias is clear. I plan on working WITH fellow Democrats to achieve OUR goals.

I am appealing to a sense of decency and rational thought on the part of those already discounting what Obama has faced and accomplished less than one year into his Presidency. Nothing else.

You've already given up, so I don't care what you think. That doesn't mean I think you should shut up.

[ThomCat]

26. You say that you are working with democrats to achieve our goals

as if those of us disappointed with Obama are NOT? Who's goals do you think he has been slacking on if not the goals of democrats? Who do you think have been working on those goals in the absence of leadership if not democrats?

You think there is no way to do a comparison to previous presidents, so, what, the only possible comparison is the one you allow between Obama and Bush? Bullshit.

Obama can be compared in a whole lot of ways to previous presidents, and he does not come across favorably. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it any less true.

You talk about my bias, but what about yours? I'm sick of cheerleaders who will cheer the man no matter how timid and useless he is on so many issues.


He gives our treasury away to Goldman Sacks. But that's wonderful!

He has secret meetings with the Insurance meeting, and backs the less progressive insurance bill. But that's okay!

He supports giving the Federal Reserve MORE power to veto regulations and oversight of wall street and had to be shot down by his own party. But that's leadership!

He has been so biased in favor of an unregulated wall street that a conservative former head of the Federal Reserve had to chastise him publicly for favoring banks too much and making it too likely that the next crisis will be bigger and will cost taxpayers far more. When even conservative economists are turning against him for favoring too much deregulation, you know hell has frozen over. But that's fiscal responsibility!

He collapsed on any promises to increase transparency and to show legislation online for public review before signing, instead going with more secrecy and back-room deals. But that's change we can believe in!

He backtracks on environmental regulations and supports voluntary regulations. But that's fine!

He caved in on reviewing and rewriting free trade agreements to support labor and enviromental protections, instead pushing for more free trade agreements as is. But that's being strong!

He lies repeatedly to LGBT people, while failing to endorse efforts to help us, and having his administration work actively against us in court. But that's being a strong advocate!

He lies about ending torture, can't end either war, no longer seems to want to, and now fully backs Bush policies on privileged secrecy so that the public can never find out what the CIA and pentagon are really doing. But that's being a firm leader!

He devoted minuscule resources to protecting mortgages, or helping the homeless, or helping the unemployed. There are trillions to help Wall Street. People just have to wait for the economy to improve enough for help to trickle down. But that's showing that he has priorities! Oh wait, it really does show that he has priorities. Sorry. He is implementing the modern version of trickle down economics and he isn't even giving Reagan credit for having stolen his ideas.


I really can't wait for the day when we finally have a real leader in the Democratic Party. As an activist I really hoped someone with a background in community organizing would have some principles and stand up for them, but Obama showed almost immediately that he really doesn't. He is just too timid and he is all about getting along with the enemies instead of standing up for anything. He would rather play nice with republicans, and lobbyists, and industry reps, than fight for any cause.

He will just speak pretty words and pretend to fight for a cause right because he caves in again.

[dave29]

27. I'm sorry, I just can't read that much BS

hurts my eyes

[ThomCat]

29. Way to go, dismissing anything you don't agree with

because you have nothing worth saying.

I have almost 6000 hours of volunteer work under my best working to make things better, including lobbying efforts. I know how much we all depend on strong leadership from the top.

Despite your delusions, we aren't getting it. Without it, He's giving everything back to the republicans a little at a time. :(

The base is demoralized, and it's getting worse. Ignoring that won't make it any less true. Without leadership energizing the base, and the base supporting the party, how long is the party going to retain power?

[dave29]

31. would you rather I waste my time arguing with you?

Serious question

[ThomCat]

39. Do you have anything intelligent to say?

Or is it just more Rah Rah shit claiming that nothing is valid until it agrees with you? :shrug:

I have cheered Obama numerous times, only to be very disappointed when his actions did not match his words.

The latest time was when I cheered his speech to the Human Rights Campaign. He really sounded like he was making a commitment to be an advocate for LGBT human rights and equality.

Within a couple of days his Justice Department was defending DOMA as necessary, he has still refused to endorse efforts to overturn DOMA and DADT, and he has refused to endorse legislative efforts in several states would help the LGBT community. The battle in Maine could have swung the other way if he had helped.

His speech, it turned out, was just another pretty speech that didn't mean anything.

So you can label people haters as if we have some innate hatred of him and never supported him, never voted for him, never hoped he would do more. But just know that every time you post that kind of stuff it just shows your own bias against people who have expectations and have been disappointed. It shows that you didn't have any strong expectations of any kind, and still don't, and that you are happy to hate anyone who does. (while simultaneously claiming, disingenously, that you will work with democrats.)

I wonder how that works, exactly. Do you only work with democrats who have never been disappointed? That would seem to be a very small group.

What would you work with them on? If you have never been disappointed enough to question the leadership, then what issues do you care enough to work on?

[dave29]

41. newsflash: we are Democrats, we are perpetually disappointed

until we get over it and keep fighting

[ThomCat]

45. I've been saying that.

Fighting goes much better when we have a real leader.

Accepting a weak leader, and cheering a lack of result because the photo ops look good, contributes what exactly, to the fight?

[dave29]

47. wtf are you talking about?

a real leader? Our last leader was great at fighting (and biking: see photo in post #1)

[ThomCat]

51. You are harping on Bush again as if that is the only alternative.

Do you lack critical thinking skills or just imagination, that you can't imagine anything other than Bush or Obama?

Geez! If those are the only two options in your world, Criminal or Incompetent, then you are going to lose no matter what happens. You talk about fighting, and working with Democrats, but for what purpose, what goals?

If you can't imagine something better than Obama then you're already screwed.

[dave29]

53. Yes thats correct

I will harp on Bush at any opportunity. It's pretty easy. And, it's true, I only think of Bush and Obama in the most narrow of ways. I am also a cheerleader, and a philosophy enthusiast. How else would ya'll like to define me while you bash Obama and unveil your own genius in the process?

It is fascinating to watch!

[ThomCat]

56. It would be interesting if you showed some hint of genius.

Sarcastic or not. Do you have anything to offer other than really weak Obama worship?

[dave29]

59. why would you keep talking to an idiot?

I mean, you are a ex-law professor and all... I tried to give up on you like 8 posts ago

[AllentownJake]

33. of course you can't

shame on those who have complaints, but I won't bother to listen to them to see if they have any merit. Who do you think you are acting like at this point. Certainly not a progressive.

[dave29]

35. (confession: I read the whole post)

shhh

I could not care less what you think I am acting like.

To see if you feel the same: You are acting like a whiney defeatist

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dave29]

52. You guys are sure great at making $hit up no one ever said

I'll give you that. Otherwise allow me a moment to collect myself, as I appear to be arguing with an actual law professor on the internets

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[butterfly77]

80. He's working on it..

are you in on any of the meetings?

[OnyxCollie]

43. Former constitutional law professor, Senator Barack Obama

voted for the bullshit FISA bill. That dispelled any illusions I may have had of the man.

Ending domestic surveillance is my goal and Obama voted to expand it.

But, hey, as long as I'm a good Democrat and march in lockstep and have nothing to hide, I don't have to worry about the government collecting my phone calls, emails, credit card transactions, banking transactions, Google searches, Amazon purchases, etc.

Right, cheerleaders?

[ThomCat]

48. As a former law professor

I really expected that he would immediately overturn the whole tribunal fiasco, not support it and give it new life. :(

I thought for sure he would immediately have us supporting and adhering to the Geneva conventions again. Then he lied about ending torture, while reports kept coming in that torture was still going on at Gitmo and at CIA prisons overseas.

I really hoped he would overturn the patriot act as an abuse of the law, and a constitutional abomination. I never thought he would adopt Bush's policies on secrecy and spy powers for spying on American Citizens.

I wonder what he taught in those constitutional law classes, and if he really believed any of it himself. :(

[SlowDownFast]

88. +1000. n/t

[avaistheone1]

78. Obama has also kept pretty much the entire corrupt Bush justice department.

It is difficult to have hope or see change when this crap is being upheld by the Obama administration.

[OnyxCollie]

83. Yup, the Gestapo/Stasi connection remains intact.

Collecting information without warrant, passing it to law enforcement (per Ashcroft's 2002 memorandum), and using it to prosecute Dems over Repubs (85% to 12%).

Ask Don Siegelman what he thinks of "change."

[treestar]

75. Disappointed People are not told to shut up

Even if they were, they wouldn't do it. They post assiduously all day and are happy with anything they can spin as bad news.

They are told that they are unreasonable. That's what they are told.

[AllentownJake]

12. Funny

I actual am considered a "hater" by some on here and in a month I will put in more work for democratic candidates than most on here will put in a year.

Of course I question things, so I'm a hater.

[dave29]

14. Congratulations on all your success.

:)

[AllentownJake]

15. No more 7 month battles over legislation

It kills turnout and good people lose.

[dave29]

16. This battle has raged for more than 20 years, friend.

But I encourage you to keep working just as hard. We're going to win this time, despite your cynicism.

[AllentownJake]

19. We'll see how this goes

and as for winning we'll hope that the two races in NJ and VA don't spook or embolden the moderates in the Senate from killing the bill.

[dave29]

20. Yes, I also hope the new Governors don't use their powers to stop the

newly elected Democrats from other states that are actually able to vote for health care, from doing so. I guess we'll see how that works out as well.

Of course Republicans will make hay of the new Governorships, and try and scare already moderate Dems into voting against healthcare reform. However, I am not scared of Republican talking points. They are always wrong, wrapped in misinformation and spin... and in this case, especially so.

[AllentownJake]

21. You have a pick-up of one

in a race where a Republican endorsed a Democrat over a nut-job.

Meanwhile, democrats got their asses handed to them all across the country. Republicans swept the judicial races in PA except for 1. So when redistricting is done, the Republicans will be the ones redistricting it.

2009 was a bad year, I don't care how the White House trys to spin it.

[dave29]

22. That's one more vote for healthcare.

And instead of "You," you should try "We" it sounds less... I dunno, like we aren't on the same team.

The election meant little, your concern means less.

[AllentownJake]

23. LOL

One more vote in the House, you are acting like we won a Senate Race, you added one more vote to a bill that had enough to pass, meanwhile when PA loses a rep in 2012, the Republicans get to draw the districts.

The base didn't come out this year, and you are delusional if you don't think there is a problem. Less democrats voted in my state than in 2005.

[dave29]

25. You best fire them up then

I am not saying there is not a need for constant vigilance. I am not saying the Senate is a cakewalk. I am keeping a positive, motivated attitude, rather than dancing on the hypothetical grave of Barack Obama's agenda nine months in. I am not silly enough to believe that this election, in 2009, has any dire bearing on Barack Obama's goals.

I have no delusions. I live in Texas, I know very well how re-districting works. Didn't stop us from fighting the good fight. Hope the same for you in PA. Won't stop me in the future, regardless. You should have seen our caucus here in 2008. That energy is not gone. You may not have seen it this year... but that's hardly surprising... and I'm certainly not ready to jump off any buildings yet.

[AllentownJake]

28. From 5-9:00 tonight

I was sitting in a campaign office folding invitations and stuffing envelopes for a fundraiser for the congressional candidate. Tommorow morning I'm going to drop off some office supplies and a printer I loaned to another candidate for the municipal races.

I fight the good fight even when I know I'm going to lose, but I also have a good understanding that outside forces can destroy the most well run campaign and this 7 month Health Care debate derailed the hopes of many good local candidates this year. Some of which are personal friends of mine.

They better get their act together, I depend on them, they don't depend on me.

[dave29]

30. I am sorry for your friends

and truly (I mean that) respect what you are and have been doing. However, healthcare is bigger than them, and you, and me. I'm sorry you feel the "7 month" debate over healthcare is the cause of good people losing. Maybe it is. All politics is local, right? Worse things have happened on the road to progress. But I don't see, in the end, this turning out as bad as you think.

[AllentownJake]

32. It's out of my control

All I can say is one of the party's sergents is telling the generals we are getting killed out there.

[dave29]

34. Control is an illusion

that's why attitude is important. :)

[AllentownJake]

36. That is about the biggest bunch of bullshit

I have ever read, control is not an illusion.

[dave29]

37. Yes it is

:)

[AllentownJake]

38. This reminds me when my philosophy professor

asked me to prove the chair was real and I offered to hit him with it.

[dave29]

40. how about when he asked you if the apple he placed on the desk

was actually there... and you said "What apple?"

You were a freaking genius then, and now.

[AllentownJake]

44. No that didn't happen

I dropped the class after I told him I wanted to hit him with the chair.

[dave29]

46. What I really want to know is if the chair had any control over the situation

because no-one ever considers the chair in these scenarios

[AllentownJake]

50. It was an old chair

Young professor dressing like a want a be beatnick with a flair for the dramatic. The next professor I had was older and wiser and spent more time on Kant which I liked much more than brains in a vat.

[dave29]

55. agreement

you would have liked my philosophy of religion professor

[AllentownJake]

58. I'm not into debating reality

Even if I'm a brain in a vat I'm more concerned about behaving morally and having rational response to the stimuli than whether or not I exist or not.

[dave29]

61. I'm pretty sure you exist

But that was not the point of my OP... agreed. We are on a roll here

[JNelson6563]

73. Tho' I replied to you elsewhere in this thread

I just want to commend you for your efforts! Bravo! :toast:

[JNelson6563]

72. And you put your finger on the problem

Turn-out. It ain't cause people are disillusioned with Obama. No, it goes much further than that. A big part of the Dems' problem is every four years we're visible and all over the place. Really rockin'. Then, day after election day, *poof* gone. Local offices close, many local parties just close up shop and go home for 4 years.

What we *need* are people who are in it for the long haul. Grow membership, raise money, maintain year 'round offices locally, get Dems elected locally so they can grow and gain valuable experience to move up the electoral food chain.

Thank you for your efforts out in real world politics. I hope you manage to keep cynicism at bay when working on those campaigns. They need positive energy and lots of it.

Julie

[treestar]

76. Why do you work so hard for a party you are so down on?

And why do you have to much time to post?

[firedupdem]

17. Rec'd n/t

[firedupdem]

18. Rec'd n/t

[ampad]

24. For some he will never do enough

The only thing he could of done was allow their selected candidate to win. Although I wish the president would of done more in August to squash the tea party idiots; I have come to the realization that he has done more for this country than Bush did during his entire 8 years. I could not, nor do I ever want to, think about a McCain/Palin presidency. Could you imagine?

[jgraz]

49. It's so much easier when you make up both sides of the argument, isn't it?

You might try engaging some real critics rather than the ones in your fantasies.

[ThomCat]

54. That is why the cheerleaders ONLY allow comparisons to Bush.

You can't compare Obama to his own words and speeches and promises.
You can't compare Obama to what he could have done or could have accomplished.
You can't compare Obama to anything hypothetical.

They only allow you to compare Obama to the republicans so they know he will come out (slightly) ahead.

You are absolutely right, they insist on controlling both sides of the argument to ensure that it goes the way they like. They can't handle anything else.

[jgraz]

60. Having an honest discussion would warp their fragile little minds.

So much easier to stick to the talking points.

[dave29]

62. do you guys have anything else to throw against the wall

to see if it sticks?

so far this much has registered:

blah blah blah cheerleader blah blah Obamabot blah blah blah chair blah blah blah blah blah cheeleader blah blah blah blah blah cheerleader blah blah blah blah blah blah failure blah blah blah they refuse to have a "real" argument blah blah blah ex law professor blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah refuse to debate blah blah blah blah blah cheerleader blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Kant

[jgraz]

63. I thought you went to bed

Don't stay up late, now. You'll miss the school bus tomorrow.

[dave29]

64. do you really want to do this?

Because I do

(That's right my entire purpose of doing this was so I could get into an argument with the jgraz)

[jgraz]

65. You're touching yourself right now, aren't you?

[dave29]

66. What are you wearing?

That's right, your true colors

(it's ok I like it rough)

[treestar]

77. The other side are the Republicans!

A party of a few can't win anything. You have to make some alliances.

The Republicans are still numerous enough to be the enemy. There's no luxury of pretending they don't exist. And none to try and pretend that the DLC or Blue Dogs are the actual right wing. Unfortunately, they aren't the far right wing in this country.

[jgraz]

87. It's getting harder to tell the difference.

Both parties are the "party of a few". A very rich "few".

[treestar]

91. What about the Democrats who are poor?

Are they stupid, then?

[dave29]

57. I was waiting for you to show up

so I could go to bed.

[geek tragedy]

68. What part was inaccurate about you knee-jerk Obama haters and bashers.

You people never give him credit for the good stuff he doe-you just ignore it. Because if he does it and it's good, it's not relevant to your world.

But, if someone else does something that offends your sensibilities (like NYC officials giving flu vaccines to large employers like hospitals and banks), you all throw a poutrage party and bash him.

And if something doesn't get done, you automatically assume it would have been easy for him to get it done and bash him then.

Bunch of whiny children.

[OnyxCollie]

85. Yeah, what about all the good news stories?

I heard we painted a school in Iraq today.:eyes:

[jgraz]

86. 10 bucks says he doesn't get the reference.

The Obamarama Fan Club is shockingly ignorant of history.

[HopeOverFear]

67. Kr

[spiritual_gunfighter]

69. Comparing the accomplishments of our current president or any president for that matter

to the worst president of all time is a bit confounding.

[Peacetrain]

71. K&R...good to read

[butterfly77]

79. K&R!

[lumberjack_jeff]

81. This would be a valid comparison if Bush had run for office promising to do things. n/t

[Fire1]

84. He didn't have to promise anything. The "fix" was in. n/t

[impik]

89. Thank you, dude. It's good not to feel alone

People simply lost their collective memory (and mind). I don't remember a more productive and transformative president in my lifetime - And i've seen quite a few. He's facing the toughest f***** presidency in decades. He inherited such shitstorm, i have no idea how can he fix it even in a whole term. Every day something bad happens as a result of this idiot on the bike has done - And yet, you see Barack Obama: Cool, calm, collected, optimistic and fighter. I'm behind this man more and more with every passing day.

[EVDebs]

90. Until Obama has his 'John Perkins moment' we're in dire straits

Obama's first job out of college was with Business International Corp., a CIA front. When Obama has the same moment that John Perkins (Confessions of An Economic Hit Man) had, then you'll see him becoming the kind of FDR president we all voted for. What he's doing now is pretty much what Wall Street wants.