A colleague's real life experience with her mother's hospital visit in Canada

[zulchzulu]

Someone I work with has dual citizenship with the US and Canada and has a mother who lives in Montreal.

About a month ago, she got the news that her mother had colon cancer and it was detected that it could become malignant any time and that the colon had to be removed. Her mother had to prepare for the operation with some blood tests and some nutritional tips before the procedure could be done. Then, last week, she had the operation.

According to my friend, her mother was told that the operation would be on Wednesday. They were not sure of the exact time but would call her when it was a good time to come to the hospital. She did have to wait until the late afternoon before they made the phone call for her to come in. She was told she should bring her own towels, tissues and other items or would be charged for items used.

She did have to share a room with a few other people preparing for the operation, which would take about two hours to perform. Not exactly the luxurious single room you can have unless you want to pay for it, which was available.

She then had the operation, which went well. She was unconscious after the operation for a few hours and was lined up in a large recovery room with others. Again, not exactly luxurious conditions, but after a few hours, she was rolled into a room to recover for 5 days.

She came home this week and feels great although a little sore since she's 69 years old.

In the US, she may have had a nice room before and after the operation, but would possibly be in debt up to $100,000 or more for such an operation, especially if it was determined it was a pre-existing condition. Either way, the operation itself would have probably taken longer to be scheduled and some amount of money would have had to be outlayed for the operation, even with the best medical coverage.

The Canadian experience was essentially a no-frills, no fancy room, BYO supply medical experience that was efficient, paid for and she had a few days to relax after the operation in the hospital under professional care.

She mentioned it is kind of like staying at a Motel 6 vs. the Hilton in terms of "vibe", but you walk out of the Canadian hospital WITHOUT huge debt.

This is essentially what a single payer scenario would be like in this country.

[TrogL]

1. This is the first I've heard of being charged for towels or tissues

There's boxes of tissues scattered everywhere (so people possibly having H1N1 can sneeze into them).

Every hospital I know of has an in-house laundry service that takes care of towels.

[zulchzulu]

2. That's what my friend said...

She said they have cut back a bit on some things like bringing your own pillow, tissue and towels (which you don't have to pay for but they obviously would provide for some fee). It might be a "Montreal" thing...

[SharonAnn]

27. In the US, the Recovery Rooms have multiple patients. So do the Prep rooms.

Only afterward is there the option of the single or double room.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

30. at no time has anyone I know had a private room in the US

[Sheltiemama]

33. I had a private room after surgery.

My heart rate was too fast, so I was in a medium-care wing.

[SharonAnn]

34. I did, though I paid personally for the difference, and my husband did in the ICU and after his

last surgery (September 2009). I think the hospital he was at is set up for all private rooms, designed in a pod with the nursing station in the center.

The rooms are a little smaller, but they're really nice for very sick patients.

[Sheltiemama]

32. Yep.

When I had surgery six years ago, pre-op and post-op were like Grand Central Station. And the first one was before the sun even came up!

[monmouth]

3. Sounds excellent to me, and the healing process moves on when

one doesn't have to worry about a $100K bill waiting for them...

[busymom]

4. I gave birth to my firstborn

in Germany. I had *public* AOK insurance. I labored in a room with other couples...the women and the men. For me, it was a very awkward experience, but I suppose for Germans who were used to this it was no big deal? I was given a thermometer and told to measure my own temperature rectally. Ummm...I didn't. My waters had broken and I was left for over 24 hours with no physician or midwife to check on me. My husband eventually tracked someone down after 30 hours of unproductive labor. When they finally got a doctor in they realized that I had to have an immediate c-section. Afterwards, no towels were provided for me either. I had never heard of something like this. The nurse got me up, walked me to a sink area (in front of all of my roomates) and then asked me for my towels. When I said I didn't have any she rudely told me that "this isn't a hotel" and proceeded to clean my face up with a paper towel.

Ultimately though, I did fine and so did the baby. Statistically speaking though, being left for more than 24 hours after a rupture of the membranes is not a good thing and I was at a risk for infection, etc. When they did get to me, the baby was (and had been in fetal distress) and I was practically out of my mind from lack of pain management and lack of sleep. I guess you could consider this a successful delivery because we both survived and I had no debt. I'm not sure it would go over very well here to labor with other people's husbands, but costs have to be cut somehow. Hell, I see crack moms on TLC begging for and getting epidurals here in the USA. Not getting pain relief would be unheard of here...lawsuitworthy even maybe. There isn't an unlimited supply of money though. If I had had private insurance or money, I could have labored privately. There is that two-tiered system though that we don't want to talk about.

My oldest daughter was born in Northern Ireland. The privacy issues were the same, but they DID have towels. A mid-wife saw me through my entire delivery until the end became an emergency and a doctor stepped in. I felt that I got good care for the delivery...but the care for my newborn was a little less active. My pre-natal care was quite sketchy because I always saw someone different who wasn't up to speed on things. One doc who saw me misread my chart, told me the baby's head was growing too slowly and that she was probably brain-damaged and that I needed to come in later for an u/sound. The doc I saw in the afternoon just shook his head. Still, you can get bad care in the US too.

When I listen to how people complain about healthcare issues here though it makes me 100% confident that they would be miserable in a public program. What a lot of my fellow dems imagine is the ultimate private care for free or next-to-nothing...and I've lived that system.

In europe, you do NOT get organ transplants, chemo etc past a certain age or with a certain diagnosis...period. Decisions ARE made and if you are unhappy with them, you just get to be unhappy. My husband was a resident in oncology at a hospital that DENIED care to smokers until they proved that they had quit smoking for a few weeks. I kid you not! Can you see that happening here? Personally, I agree with it. Why treat the breast cancer just to come back with lung cancer in a few years....but because health care is much more regulated there, there have to be stricter rules in place.

Frankly, people here in the US are going to be shitting bricks when we finally get our public plan and they are having to labor with the husband of the woman next to them. Low cost or not.

BTW...I SUPPORT a public option. I'm just waiting to hear how the actual pitfalls will be dealt with. I suppose I have to wait until people realize I speak the truth and start whining about it themselves. LOL

[zulchzulu]

9. That's pretty cool you've seen what you have...

No system is perfect, but as you mentioned, you can always pay for the Hilton Version at the hospital if you want in countries where healthcare is covered.

[zalinda]

21. They only people who will be complaining

are the latte liberals who don't really know what poor is. We, the poor, understand that when you do to a public pool, you bring your own towels, unlike a private club where everything is provided. We understand the uncomfortable times around other people, as we take public transportation, rather than having a car. We know the feeling of being left on our own to handle our own "situations", as we have been doing that our whole lives. We know we have to ask for help, because no one is going to come around and ask if we need it.

We would much rather be in a situation with adequate care, than with no care at all. I'd bring my own towels, hell, I'd bring my own bandages and help dress the wound if I could get the treatment I needed. We, the poor, don't expect much. It has been drilled into our heads that we aren't worth much either. But, to have our needs taken care of, would be enough.

zalinda

[busymom]

23. I don't think so.

I work in healthcare now and I can't tell you how many complaints I hear about care/getting appointments etc from our medicare and medicaid patients. It isn't just complaints, but it is downright outrage sometimes. I think that we as Americans feel a sense of entitlement regardless...

And btw, I'm not picking on medicare/medicaid recipients.

We hear the word lawsuit tossed around often here about things like people's perceptions that they aren't getting adequate care/enough time with their doctors/the MRI that they demand because they think they need it, etc....

Again...Americans feel entitled. I'm an American, btw. I can criticize us! =)

Things will change drastically and I think everyone will be shocked and may be disappointed. The hospital here treats all patients like they have insurance including giving anti-nausea meds for chemo, pain management, ICU stays, etc and it comps a big part of the bill for people who are unable to pay. That means that poor people here get the same care as those with insurance and often are only left with a portion of the bill. I think it is unjust that any hard-working American not have health-insurance, especially because I know people who have crossed the border from Mexico that have better access to free healthcare than my brother who is a hard-working American.

That being said, we need to work carefully to get this right.

[zulchzulu]

25. Very good point

Taking mass transportation builds character. So does having to do stuff yourself without having a fat wallet and an arrogant attitude.

People can always pay for the front row seat at a show while we dance in the back.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Interesting--Just the other day I talked with a woman who immigrated here from Europe about thirty

years ago. She told me that she's 78, although she doesn't look it and works out at the gym.

We were talking about health care reform, and she said that she didn't get cancer screenings or things like that because she'd lived a long and good life and felt that if she got cancer, well, she'd just ask the doctors to keep her comfortable and save the resources for a younger person.

It must be a European thing, because your typical American senior would bristle at the thought that they can't live forever.

[SharonAnn]

28. I feel the same way as she does. I've had a full life and have no need to try to live forever.

[SKKY]

5. Here in Spain...

...it's pretty much the same as you've described. You don't get luxurious, well manicured hospitals with egyptian cotton towels. But you do get excellent, free health care. I'll take a few days living with strangers over being 100K in debt every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[busymom]

7. I've never gotten

an egyptian cotton towel in the hospital in America...ever. I have shared rooms before, which is fine of course....but the luxuries aren't really as some make them out to be in europe.

[SKKY]

In Jan of this year my father had an accident...

..and he was in the ICU at University Hospital in Louisville for almost a month. Egyptian cotton towels. I kid you not.

[ej510]

6. It might depend on th province.

[Oregone]

8. I'm not sure where everyone gets this idea the US is littered with luxurious hospitals

I found em just as lacking in comforts as I find the Canadian ones, just more expensive. Maybe it was the area, or something

Private clinics in both countries seem every bit the same

[ej510]

13. I rather bring towels and sheets than owe more money than the value of a bay area house.

[FLyellowdog]

10. "But you walk out of the Canadian hospital with huge debt"

That can't be good. :shrug:

[jgraz]

12. jinx!

[FLyellowdog]

16. Don't you owe me a coke or something?

:hi:

[jgraz]

17. Dude, I jinxed you

I don't remember what that means, but I'm pretty sure I win something.

[FLyellowdog]

19. I stand corrected.

I owe YOU a coke! Maybe I am a moran after all. :blush:

[jgraz]

22. Cool, but make it a Pepsi

:D

[zulchzulu]

15. I fixed it... for free! n/t

[jgraz]

11. "you walk out of the Canadian hospital with huge debt"

I think you mean "without". Still time to fix it.

[zulchzulu]

14. Thanks...

Good catch.

[FLyellowdog]

18. We're not morans, ya know. nt

[Canuckistanian]

20. I've never heard of this "towel rationing"

The last time my wife was in the hospital, there was no such system. EVERYTHING was taken care of.

Except for the TV rental (about $15/day, I think), we paid nothing in terms of hospital care.

But then, I live in Ontario. Quebec is having some problems with their funding, but it's not serious.

I'm always astounded at the costs of these common surgeries, even when insurance DOES pay for them.

[SharonAnn]

35. People bringing their own towels wouldn't be sanitary. Not even close!

There are enough exposures to infection in the hospital without people bringing in their own towels, linens, and other personal items that would be handled by others.

[Bitwit1234]

26. Over twenty years

ago I had a cancer operation. But I had to have a kidney test before they could set me up. Now remember they knew I had cancer. I had to wait 5 weeks for an appointment for the kidney test. A person could have died in that time. It hadn't metastasized so I was lucky.

[polly7]

29. I've worked in health care all my life and never heard of anyone

bringing their own towels. I live in a fairly rural area, our hospital rooms are more like little hotel suites with private bathrooms, plenty of tissue and always a supply of clean towels. City hospitals I've worked in aren't as cozy, but still not as unpleasant or inconvenient as I imagine any country's are. The recovery rooms here all have privacy curtains and pts. usually aren't awake enough to even realize they have a neighbour a few feet away. Once awake whisked right off to usually a double-room unless they have extra private insurance and wish a private room if available, which isn't alway. Not saying this isn't true, it's just a sad state of affairs if it is.

[Puzzler]

31. I'm glad she had a good experience, but...

... what you are describing is a particular hospital in Montreal. Regional/provincial/municipal hospital management is not the same thing as the individual provincial health insurance systems.

The situation with the towels (and the hospital in general that you describe) does not resemble the two major hospitals we have here in Victoria BC.

Here's some pictures of one of our two major hospitals in my city:

http://www.timescolonist.com/Photo+gallery+Inside+Victoria+General+Hospital+emergency+room/1996757/story.html