Big lies work better

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

A Republican congressman goes on TV and says "This bill has death panels."

He is likely to be contradicted or asked for proof. (Except on FOX)

A Republican (or, in some cases, Democratic) congressman goes on TV and says "This bill is a government takeover of healthcare."

He will not be contradicted. The statement will be treated as a religious statement beyond polite challenge or rational examination. But it is no less a (false) factual claim. Since it is vague it will take a while to define the terms, like "takeover," but "death panels" isn't self-defining either. It is not just a personal aesthetic opinion; the person is making some sort of claim about real world actions and effects.

"Bankrupt the country" and "take away our freedoms" are claims not mere opinions.

When someone predicates their specific comments on a gigantic over-arching lie we (humans) tend to focus on the specifics, but its the biggest lies that color the whole debate.

For instance:

"Since terrorism is the greatest threat we face as a nation torture should be used to elicit intelligence."

That will lead to a specific debate about the morality or efficacy of torture, skipping right by the even more outlandish--and easily challenged--claim that terrorism is the greatest threat we face.

[phleshdef]

1. I hear ya. Just once will someone challenge these people on the meaning of the word "socialism"?

Thats the one that pisses me off the most.

[mix]

2. I wonder why that is, what is the rhetorical logic at work here?

Has anyone in the MSM ever seriously challenged the Obama = Hitler meme, for example, among the many absurd claims made by the right? Or Jonah Goldberg's belief that Nazism is the origin of modern American liberalism?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

3. To challenge a truly Big Lie requires recreating the entirety of logic

Someone says 2+2=5. You point out that it is 4. They insist it is 5.

Now where are you?

How do you refute that without recapitulating the entirety of mathematics? Seeking consensus on whether the word five means IIII or IIIII... establishing what "+' and "=" mean...

The big lie leap-frogs debate.

It is a form of aggression and/or religion and/or hypnotism disguised as debate.

[mix]

4. Or simply the guts and honesty to say: "That is false." nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

5. ...