"Kucinich is only as good as his votes. "

[ProSense]

BooMan23 diary at Daily Kos:

Some people wonder why I am not a fan of Dennis Kucinich and don't take comfort when I look along the trench and find him fighting by my side or, especially, carrying my banner. Well, he voted against health care reform tonight. He can provide any reasons he wants, but I'd note that the only Democratic women in the entire House to vote against the bill (Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin of South Dakota, Suzanne Kosmas of Florida, and Betsy Markey of Colorado), are from very conservative districts. The women of the Democratic caucus swallowed hard when the Stupak-Pitts amendment passed, and they voted to go ahead with reform. So, please don't try to tell me that the pro-life-'til-the-day-he-decided-to-run-for-president Kucinich voted no because he was standing up for women's rights.

I presume he voted no because this bill isn't a single-payer bill. But he and Rep. Massa of New York are the only two proponents of single-payer to vote against reform. And Massa is just looking for cover because his district is very conservative. What really happened is that Kucinich wants attention and wants to be holier and purer than everyone else. I'd have to hold my nose to vote this bill, too, but look around, Dennis. You're all alone. Again.

The bill passed the House with 220 votes (218 votes were required). That leaves us no room to improve the bill in Conference. We got a single Republican vote, from Joseph Cao of New Orleans. Cao was satisfied by the Stupak Amendment, but his vote will disappear if that language is stripped out in Conference. So, we have two votes to spare. Want a stronger public option? Forget it. Any small change to this deal will probably kill the effort to pass this under regular order. I give Pelosi credit for winning, once again, but she just barely made it. She did what she had to do, but it certainly wasn't pleasant. The combination of her dropping a robust public option pre-Conference and allowing an anti-choice amendment to pass created an extremely bitter brew. The narrowness of the vote undermines the gains we might expect from the jolt of momentum we gain from passing this crappy legislation.

I am really disturbed that allowing the abortion amendment didn't result in an avalanche of support from so-called moderates. It appears that nearly every southern and border Democrat voted against reform. And this despite the fact that this legislation will disproportionately benefit southerners.

I am happy that the House passed this bill. The alternative was unthinkable, and the insurance reform elements of the bill are rock-solid. I'd only ask for private health insurance to be abolished entirely, but that was obviously never in the cards.

<...>

This comment sums it up:

If he votes against every piece of progressive legislation, then the effect of his actions are equal to that of a Blue Dog.

So far he's voted against the two bills that defined my rationale for voting for Democrats and Obama: ACES (climate change bill) and tonight's healthcare bill. Kucinich is officially an opponent of a progressive agenda.

link

[bluestateguy]

1. Will Kucinich get a pat on the back from the teabaggers?

Because he voted the way they wanted members of Congress to vote.

[Go2Peace]

15. aww yes, the teabagger insult. And all our other dems are so "white hat" and listening to what we

want. Ya right.

I am tired of these posts. Kucinich took a stand that was principled. If this bill was better than I suppose one could make the case you attempt. But this is not a "good bill". It does not represent the people. It is a twisted compromise that is better than nothing, but I dare anyone to try and make this sound like any but a few of our reps really did a good job holding to what the people want and need.

[Cha]

64. The poster has a point..that's what the teabag cons

wanted so he made you happy and them.

[ProleNoMore]

44. No - Kucinich Gets A Pat On the Back Form Progressives That Support The Democratic Party Platform

eom

[Cha]

65. So Dennis wins with both ends of the

deadenders.

[saltpoint]

2. He is unable to affect his purist agenda and cannot persuade Congressional

colleagues to back that agenda so he plays the contrarian imp, defiantely grandstanding.

Let him try yet again for the White House and let Democratic voters far and wide wipe him out once more.

[provis99]

3. ok, how is this health care bill in any way progressive?

Just because Democrats voted for it, doesn't make it progressive, and quite frankly, having read H.R. 3962, it is a terrible bill.

[Davis_X_Machina]

5. WilliamPitt's wife...

....begs to differ.

[dionysus]

54. doesn't matter. the Failers apparently don't give a shit about the millions that

will now have coverage.

but this reaction was garaunteed for anything that wasn't single payer.

[ProSense]

4. Reactions: Lee, Grayson, Conyers, Grijalva

Barbara Lee Releases Statement On Passage of Health Care for America Act

Washington D.C. – Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA) released the following statement today after the House of Representatives approved H.R. 3962, the Affordable Health Care for America Act:

“Today’s historic vote is one step forward in our quest to provide health care to all Americans.

“While there is still much work to do, I applaud President Obama, Democratic Leadership and the Chairmen of the Tri-Committees for their efforts to bring us to this point.

“I also want to thank in the Tri-Caucus, Progressives Caucus and particularly the 42 members of the Congressional Black Caucus. Together we have led the fight for a strong public option, which is included in the health care bill that the House approved today.

“When others were pronouncing health reform dying—and the public option dead and buried—we kept on fighting! And we will keep fighting until a final health care bill is on the president’s desk that includes not only a strong public option, but provisions to achieve health equity, eliminate health disparities and to limit the rate of increase for those with private plans.

“We have and will continue to champion issues such as the need for support for patients with end stage renal disease, for children’s mental health, and dental care, workforce pipeline issues, and expansion of community health centers.

“These provisions and others attack the many causes of health disparities, and we fought to get them in. Under the leadership of Congresswoman Donna M. Christensen, we have also championed expansion of the Office of Minority Health because we need a comprehensive way to address minority health across agencies.

“Finally, because we know that 85 percent of Americans are in private insurance, under the leadership of Rep. Donna Edwards, we fought to have included cost containment provisions to keep premiums reasonable. We know that the American people want and deserve affordable health care. We also know that this bill is cost effective for our country, and for American families watching their budgets.

“This was a historic vote, but we must keep up the fight until we have a final bill on the president’s desk. Health care should not just be a privilege for a few; it should and must be a basic human right in the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world.”

CONGRESSMAN GRAYSON PROUDLY SUPPORTS AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICA ACT

November 7, 2009 9:18 PM (Washington, DC) – Congressman Alan Grayson voted tonight in favor of the Affordable Health Care for America Act. The bill (H.R. 3962) will deliver life, health, and peace of mind to the tens of millions of people in the United States who do not have health insurance.

Congressman Grayson said, “I promised from the start to vote for any bill that saves money and saves lives. This bill does both. This bill will help save the lives of the nearly 45,000 Americans who die every year because they do not have health insurance,” Congressman Grayson said.

Congressman Grayson never wavered in his support of health care reform. Leading up to the vote, he personally spoke with hundreds of constituents, to listen to their concerns and answer their questions. Since August, he has held three health care town halls, a health care telephone town hall meeting, and dozens of other open meetings; consulted with the members of his Health Care Advisory Board; and considered the overwhelming number of calls and emails from constituents.

Congressman Grayson said, “A lot of people say they love America. To them I say, ‘it’s not enough to love what’s in America. You cannot just love the Appalachian Mountains, the Mohave Desert, or the Gulf Coast. You need to love Americans as well. And loving people means taking care of them, sheltering the homeless, feeding the hungry, and healing the sick.’”

The Affordable Health Care for America Act received broad support from hundreds of important and influential organizations including the AARP, American Medical Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, U.S. Women’s Chamber of Commerce, and Voto Latino.

Conyers: House Health Care Bill Will Save Lives While Fight for Single Payer Continues

WASHINGTON D.C. — Congressman John Conyers, Jr (D-MI) issued the following statement today applauding the passage of H.R. 3962, the Affordable Health Care for America Act.

“Today, I joined my Democratic colleagues in support of the Affordable Healthcare for America Act. While the bill is far from perfect, I supported it because it will expand access to health insurance to 96 percent of Americans, end discrimination based on pre-existing conditions, help our seniors by closing the prescription drug benefit donut hole, and increase competition and choice with a public insurance option.”

In the near term, these reforms will improve and save American lives while we continue to fight for single payer health care at the state and national levels. I will vote for this bill because the cost of inaction is too high. Each year, 44,000 people die because they do not have access to insurance. Without reform, this number will rise, Americans will be at greater risk of losing their coverage, and our business community will continue to fall behind international competitors as their future profits are drained by burdensome health care costs.

Grijalva explained a couple of the highlights he says are in the bill. He told us there's no pre-existing condition denial, meaning if a person has a pre-existing condition they can't be denied services. He also said this bill will extend benefits to millions of American's who don't otherwise have an opportunity to receive health care coverage.

Representative Grijalva said, "It's not as strong as many of us wanted it, but it does provide for private insurances a competitive competition that will keep costs lower and make some of the premiums we see and some of the costs that we see from private insurance carriers are going to have to reduce their costs to compete with this public option."

link

[vaberella]

21. +1. Thanks Prosense. n/t

[ProleNoMore]

45. That Some Democrats Choose To Ignore The Democratic Party Platform Is A False Equivalency

eom

[wroberts189]

6. DK is unyielding in his principles....

..and integrity.

I am happy the bill passed but we should all mark DK's words.

He tends to be right 99% of the time....


It will be interesting what happens in the senate.

[Enrique]

7. that guy sounds like he means it

he's got a reason for not liking Kucinich's vote.

He's not just trashing him because he perceives him as "anti-Obama".

[ProSense]

9. Health care reform and making progress is important to a lot of people. n/t

[ProleNoMore]

46. Except This Bill Is Insurance Industry Reform And A Wall Street Style Bailout To Boot

eom

[ProSense]

56. Nonsense

These people didn't vote to bail out Wall Street.

[tritsofme]

8. Eh, his vote didn't effect passage.

He just proves himself to be even more irrelevant with each passing day.

If he wants to grandstand when there are votes to burn, it doesn't hurt any of the adults.

[vaberella]

22. No, it didn't but it could have. Imagine if we didn't win those Houseseats in NY and Cali was it?

We'd have lost this bill. A lot of people were not thinking that. He would have been an important vote for the bill. He screwed a lot of people over in my book. I respect the fact that he's fought for a lot for years. I respect that he wants to provide the best for the US. However, there were Democratic women who sucked it up and tolerated the Stupak even though they hated it...because overall women would be covered when originally they would have been DENIED. Countless videos in the video section showed women were denied for being female and this ended. And so many on this damned board and even Kucinich himself, wiht this no vote, showed they support that status quo. These people are too much for me.

[Ikonoklast]

43. And he actually voted against the best interests of his constituents, for many of whom

the Public Option will be a boon.

This vote will be used against him in the next general election.

[ProleNoMore]

10. My Man Dennis - True Progressive - The Dems Have Voted Against Their Party Platform

So, who is the true sellout tonight?

[ProSense]

11. What utter nonsense. n/t

[ProleNoMore]

12. Go Read The Platform And Past Platforms - Enjoy The Delusions

eom

[ProSense]

13. The pathetic blue dogs and Kucinich need to read it.

They're on the wrong side of history. This bill marks the beginning of the complete transformation of health care in America, and he voted against it.

[ProleNoMore]

14. Delusions In General - One Wonders If One Can Read?

eom

[ProSense]

16. Speaking of delusional

Kucinich isn't even going to be a footnote in terms of this historic vote. He'll be lumped together with the blue dogs and Republicans who voted against the bill.

[ProleNoMore]

47. Yes - I Did State That One Appears To Be Delusional And Blinded By Facts

eom

[bornskeptic]

30. Maybe we should stop talking about reading and do it.

(snip)

We therefore oppose those who advocate policies that
would thrust millions of Americans out of their current
private employer-based coverage without providing them
access to an affordable, comprehensive alternative,
thereby subjecting them to the kind of insurance
discrimination that leads to excessive premiums or
coverage denials for older and sicker Americans. We
reject those who have steadfastly opposed insurance
coverage expansions for millions of our nation’s children
while they have protected overpayments to insurers and
allowed underpayments to our nation’s doctors. Our
vision of a strengthened and improved health care system
for all Americans stands in stark contrast to the
Republican Party’s and includes:


Covering All Americans and Providing Real Choices
of Affordable Health Insurance Options

Families and individuals should have the option of keeping the coverage they have or choosing from a wide
array of health insurance plans, including many private health insurance options and a public
plan. Coverage should be made affordable for all Americans with subsidies provided through
tax credits and other means.

Shared Responsibility

Health care should be a shared
responsibility between employers, workers, insurers, providers
and government. All Americans should have coverage they can
afford; employers should have incentives to provide coverage to
their workers; insurers and providers should ensure high quality
affordable care; and the government should ensure that health
insurance is affordable and provides meaningful coverage. As
affordable coverage is made available, individuals should purchase
health insurance and take steps to lead healthy lives.

An End to Insurance Discrimination

Health insurance plans should accept all applicants and
be prohibited from charging different prices based on pre-existing conditions. They should
compete on the cost of providing health care and the quality of that care, not on their ability to
avoid or over-charge people who are or may get sick. Premiums collected by insurers should
be primarily dedicated to care, not profits.
Portable Insurance. No one should have to worry about losing health coverage if they change
or lose their job.

Meaningful Benefits

Families should have health insurance coverage similar to what Members
of Congress enjoy. They should not be forced to bear the burden of skyrocketing premiums,
unaffordable deductibles or benefit limits that leave them at financial risk when they become
sick. We will finally achieve long-overdue mental health and addiction treatment parity.

(snip)
http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html

The passage given here begins on page 10. The entire section on healthcare reform begins on page 9 and is considerably longer, but I think this is enough to make it clear whether the House bill as passed or Dennis Kucinich is more in line with the 2008 Democratic Party platform.

[freddie mertz]

25. READ THIS, then try to deny it.

"The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v Wade and a woman's right to choose a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay, and we oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.The Democratic Party also strongly supports access to affordable family planning services and comprehensive age-appropriate sex education which empower people to make informed choices and live healthy lives. We also recognize that such health care and education help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions. The Democratic Party also strongly supports a woman's decision to have a child by ensuring access to and availability of programs for pre and post natal health care, parenting skills, income support, and caring adoption programs."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/08/13/conservative_dems_hail_party_p.html

Denials will never change the truth.

[ProleNoMore]

49. Where - o - Where Is ProSense's Response?

eom

[freddie mertz]

52. As usual, crickets chirp when the FACTS come out.

Typical GDP horsetwaddle.

[freddie mertz]

63. STILL no reply from our friend ProSense.

Chirp.

[dionysus]

55. Dennis was, actually. doesn't matter, he's totally inconsequential either way

:shrug:

[Vidar]

17. Kucinich voted for the poor & against the stinking insurance companies.

[ProSense]

18. Yeah, voting to deny health coverage is voting for the poor.

ludicrous.

[vaberella]

20. He voted against me who is female, poor, and has a preexisting condition, with no insurance.

When he voted for no health reform that would help me out, he voted against me. So you can say what you want...but in the scheme of tings, many people like myself would have been denied indefinitely if Kucinich was the final important vote.

[POAS]

31. I voted for Kucinich when he became mayor in Cleveland

and have supported him time and again over the years.

Today Dennis voted against me.

I have cancer. I, fortunately, have insurance through my employment which could go away at any moment in this shaky economy. I am not old enough for Medicare and not sick enough for disability so what Dennis' vote said to me is tough luck buddy, my principle trumps your health.

I agree with Dennis on most issues but this time I must part ways with him.

[Ikonoklast]

57. This should be an OP.

He voted against me, too, the prick.

While keeping smug in his 'pricipled' stand, meanwhile, in the real fucking world, people are hurting.

[POAS]

59. Thanks! n/t

[tinrobot]

38. He voted against everyone with a pre-existing condition.

He also voted against poor people who can't afford insurance without the subsidies this bill provides.

[POAS]

58. Absolutely!!! n/t

[vaberella]

19. I hope the above is not set in stone and we can make some changes.

The Dem women were truly sucking it up and tolerating it even though they realized it was bad. That or nothing at all and having women denied because they are women. That's even more fucked up. Hopefully we'll be able to strip it. Kucinich did nothing for us and I'm appalled by his actions. He may not like this or that but his vote would have been great to have and he then went and signed along with 28 other Dems and 176 Republicans who were going to say no if this amendment was in or not.

[cleveramerican]

23. His moment has passed

He is now a pathetic shell of one who once held such promise.

[quantass]

24. Bravo to DK for his unwavering Principles but even me being critical of this bill would have voted

Yes for it...with high hopes that over the years it would improve to be REAL reform.

[freddie mertz]

26. Unec'd in the name of the truth.

[Cha]

66. Yeah, it shows you can't deal with the truth and facts.

[ClarkUSA]

27. Blue Dogs and Republicans can always count on Kucinich being on their side of the voting. nt

[Clio the Leo]

28. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between him and Lieberman.....

... at this point. But I'm open to explanations if someone wants to try and rationalize it all.

[CBR]

29. This simply gets Kucinich more attention and a stronger fan

base. This is what he wants. Plain and simple. I do not have a problem with him but I cannot be outraged at the Blue Dogs in one breath and not DK in the other.

[Mass]

34. The difference is real, but, given that K. has no chance to alter the bills passed, the results are

the same.

They let people down, Kucinich waiting for a better solution that will not come, Lieberman in support of his corporate masters.

[paulk]

32. I have always felt that the bottom line is the vote

"If he votes against every piece of progressive legislation, then the effect of his actions are equal to that of a Blue Dog.

So far he's voted against the two bills that defined my rationale for voting for Democrats and Obama: ACES (climate change bill) and tonight's healthcare bill. Kucinich is officially an opponent of a progressive agenda."


Kucinich is worse than useless.

[paulk]

61. OTOH

your spamming the board with these endless DK threads is really getting old....

[Mass]

33. I call on Kucinich to renounce to his personal insurance subsidized by the US government.

I call all of them to do so, but he should know better.

Given there were no better alternatives on the table, he effectively voted for people not to have access to healthcare. Idiot.

[Jennicut]

35. DK is DK and not going to change. But there comes a time when principles

mean little when you get nothing in return for them. Every time he votes on on these bills, he is not really getting any closer to getting the perfect bill he desires. He is essentially worthless as a vote. He said he would still vote no if he was the deciding vote. For many of us here, that would directly impact us.

[Cleita]

36. He voted no because he could remain true to his principles as there were

enough votes. I'm sure he would have voted for it if they needed an additional vote to make 218. I have seen him do political things like this before unless it's really something that takes moral courage like voting against invading a country for no other reason than for their oil. Dennis can be a team player when he's needed. So please stop the smear on him with speculations from a blogger.

[Phx_Dem]

40. That's exactly what Blue Dogs would say too. Dennis is an asshole

who voted against what his constituents want because he couldn't have his the whole pie. His "principals" don't help anyone get insurance or keep what they have.

You have no idea how he would have voted if they didn't have 218. The vote passed with a measley 2-vote margin. Thanks for nothing Dennis.

[Cleita]

48. Did you read my post?

I said if they were short of votes, he probably would have voted for it. But since they weren't he didn't out of principle. Blue Dogs vote to keep legislation from passing even though their votes are needed. There is a BIG difference. Of course Dennis should be able to answer for himself, however, I doubt if any reporter will ask him.

[Phx_Dem]

60. Yes, I did.

[tinrobot]

37. Thanks for the slap in the face, Dennis

I generally like him, but voting against this bill was a slap in the face to everyone who can't afford health care and who has a pre-existing condition.

[Phx_Dem]

39. I guess Kuninich is going to be primaried now, right? Fair is fair.

If progressives want to primary Blue Dogs for voting against HC, they should do the same with Kuninich.

What a jerk.

[saltpoint]

41. I guess he's survived a primary or two already but we're considerably

farther down the road this next time.

It is going to be interesting to see who rises in his district to challenge him.

I think it will be a telling primary race.

[ClarkUSA]

42. St. Kucinich has feet of clay. He needs to be primaried by a pro-choice Democrat. nt

[ProSense]

50. Here's what Kucinich voted against:

Starting next year, private insurers could no longer deny anyone coverage based on preexisting conditions, place lifetime limits on coverage or abandon people when they become ill. Insurers would be required to disclose and justify proposed premium increases to regulators, and could not remove adult children younger than 27 from their parents’ family policies.

For the elderly, the group that has been most skeptical of Obama’s initiative, the House package would immediately offer discounts on prescription drugs and reduce a gap in Medicare prescription drug coverage, closing it entirely by 2019. Uninsured people who cannot get coverage could join temporary high-risk insurance pools, and unemployed workers would be permitted to keep their COBRA benefits until the public plan and insurance exchanges started in 2013.

link

“For all Americans, this legislation makes a big difference: no discrimination for pre-existing medical conditions, no dropped coverage if you are sick, no co-pays for preventive care. There is a cap on what you pay in but there is no cap on the benefits that you receive. It works for seniors closing the donut hole, offering better primary care, and strengthening Medicare for years to come. It works for women preventing insurance companies from charging women more than men for the same coverage. No longer will being a woman be a pre-existing medical condition.

link

Supporters of gay rights have long been trying to change the tax treatment of health benefits provided by employers to the domestic partners of their employees. In effect, such benefits are now treated as taxable income for the employee, and the employer may owe payroll taxes on their fair-market value.

Under the bill, such benefits would be tax-free, just like health benefits provided to the family of an employee married to a person of the opposite sex.

Representative Jim McDermott, Democrat of Washington, who proposed the change, said it would “correct a longstanding injustice, end a blatant inequity in the tax code and help make health care coverage more affordable for more Americans.”

Joseph R. Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights advocacy group, said federal tax law had not kept up with changes in the workplace.

link

[quiller4]

51. I am not a big fan of Kucinich. He may oppose legislation for

different reasons but his "no" votes have the same impact as votes from Blue Dogs. Blue Dogs are often representing the views of their districts. That is especially true of Blue Dogs from districts in southern states that voted heavily for McCain. Kucinich has no such excuse.

[azmouse]

53. Thank you for posting this point of view.

Maybe it'll open a few eyes around here to the fact that StDennis isn't all that perfect.

[azmouse]

62. kick