There is no ways on earth that the House bill will pass the Senate

[cali]

They'll strip anything remotely related to a a public option. They'll add onerous shit and it'll be even worse than it is now.

That's just reality, folks.

[Davis_X_Machina]

1. Thus creating an opening...

...for SINGLE PAYER! Which will SAIL through Congress!

[bluestateguy]

2. It didm't take the doomers and gloomers to launch a counterattack

nt

[emulatorloo]

3. I think they are drawing more from the HELP bill, not the joke that is the Baucus Bill

At least that is what Rockefeller, Harking and others have indicated

But yeah it is going to be difficult.

[Aramchek]

4. thanks for the info, Kreskin.

you've proved correct so many times in the past
:sarcasm:

Thank god you are not the sole determiner of reality.
Obama wouldn't even be the President if you were.

[cali]

6. Actually, I'm simply reflecting the fact that Lieberman and Graham

have said that they'll filibuster any legislation with a public option. And the fact that the Senate is more conservative than the house.

I do live in realville, honey. And sorry, but I predicted that Obama would win before Iowa.

[Aramchek]

13. Lieberman will not stop this train. You think to highly of him.

[cali]

16. Lieberman is hardly alone. He'll have plenty of help

And Reid is hardly a strong leader. It has zip all to do with thinking highly of him.

[Aramchek]

17. at least admit that you don't really know what will happen

[cali]

21. Of course I can't know for sure what will happen but

I can state that very few pieces of legislation go through the Senate without changes. I can further add that the Senate is a more conservative body than the house and that it is relatively easy for the opposition to derail legislation they don't want.

[Aramchek]

25. The Senate will vote on the Bill it already has in motion.

Then both Bills will be combined in Conference.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what we get.

[cali]

28. I hope you're right. I'm not looking for perfect, just something that

actually does some good and helps people get decent insurance at affordable rates, subsidies that work and real regulation.

[Aramchek]

32. It will be something we can build on, a Foundation.

You know how much easier it is to expand existing programs than it is to pass perfect ones.

I normally don't say this,
but listen to the Repukes.

They know where this is eventually heading, and they are frightened and supremely pissed about it.

[AlinPA]

36. How will it make it through the senate with no public option? The house barely

passed their bill, 39 Democrats against. I'm seriously doubtful that a second watered down bill will fly there.

[Aramchek]

37. The Senate will pass a Bill with a Public Option

There will be no problems passing the Bill that comes out of Conference.

[AlinPA]

42. Please explain the 60 votes required.

[Aramchek]

44. Not all those who vote for cloture will vote for the Bill

But cloture will be achieved.

[AlinPA]

47. How, with Lieberman in the republican camp?

[Aramchek]

49. Lieberman will not stop this. You'll see.

[AlinPA]

50. OK, I'll stop pressing, but he restated his intent to filibuster again this morning.

[jenmito]

? "That's just reality, folks." It looks like that's just your OPINION. n/t

[cali]

30. It's real that the Senate is more conservative than the house. It's real

that it's relatively easy for the opposition to derail legislation. It's real that legislation from the House is often very different from what passes in the Senate. That's all real.

[jenmito]

38. Like you said above, of course you can't know for sure what will happen...

"They'll strip anything remotely related to a a public option. They'll add onerous shit and it'll be even worse than it is now." That is your opinion. And THAT'S reality.

[Aramchek]

39. We already have over 51 votes in the Senate for the PO

Any attempted Filibuster will fail.

[dave29]

40. Is it?

Then why is the public option even on the table in the Senate?

[AlinPA]

46. It's not on the table per se, only a promise by Reid. A filibuster can stop movement now.

[dave29]

5. cali, rather than just posting your opinion and then running off (like in your other thread)

I challenge you to actually stick around and debate this one.

[cali]

7. Sure, what do you want to debate?

[dave29]

10. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is a starting point.

.

Lieberman tells lies all the time. Why are you taking him at face value. Posturing is also part of politics.

[cali]

12. I think Lieberman's track record of obstruction is pretty damn clear.

[dave29]

15. yes, it is

it was also clear, until last night, that zero Republicans would vote for the bill in the house.

[cali]

18. uh, only one republican did. a republican who got a phone call from Obama and

who represents a district that he has very little chance of being re-elected in no matter how he votes, but particularly if he votes with the pukes.

[dave29]

23. Yeah, just like the one Republican in the Senate that got us to this point.

when she didn't even have to. Don't count all your chickens until they have hatched. Nobody was counting on either of those votes, but they happened anyways, and they are both very very important votes.

[cali]

26. If you're talking about Snowe, she's been clear all along that she will not

support anything remotely resembling a public option.

[dave29]

33. I am well aware of everything she has said, including her support for a

triggered public option (which you and I agree is stupid, but it is nonetheless tacit support for a public option). The point I am trying to make -- is that the maneuverings and posturings of this make it very difficult to read the tea leaves. I understand, but only somewhat agree that the Senate is more conservative than the house. It isn't as black and white as you suggest. The Senate, for example, is not nearly as hung up on abortion as the House. The Senate Finance Committee -- sure, you win that argument -- except that's where we got our one R vote.

[Cleita]

8. Do you think that whatever emerges and something will emerge because

President Obama has insisted on it, that he will sign something that essentially forces millions of uninsured to buy the health insurance industry's crappy product? I think this could work in a strange way, if there were more regulation slapped on them besides the no pre-existing conditions clause. We need to demand that they can only ask for $100 deductible and the usual 20% co-pay. There can be no caps. They must all charge the same agreed to premium across the board and regardless of age. Sure let them charge for extras, but the basic policy has to be the same like those regulated medi-gap policies for seniors. Oh, yes and they have to be non-profit. Actually, that's the way health insurance had to operate before they were de-regulated. At least back then a group plan through your employer was affordable to the employer and it had actual coverage.

[Hutzpa]

9. yup! it'll just be a blank paper.

blank...blank I tell ya...with nothing on it except the Stupak bill.


:puke:

[cali]

11. Did I say that? No, of course not.

Do you understand the process of passing legislation through the Congress?

[Hutzpa]

20. I'm just taking you up on your snark\ n/t

[RBInMaine]

14. Nope. We go reconciliation with opt out compromise and get it DONE !

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. There is no way Al Gore will win the Nobel Prize.

[cali]

22. um. whatever. completely different, but whatever.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Not if people like you keep saying so....

instead of concentrating by joining forces with others who are determined to see it passed.

I didn't think that George Bush was going to become President in December of 2000,
but then I saw how active the other side got to make it so.....

Perhaps we are the ones that we are waiting for, and we are fucking late.....
but not too late.

[POAS]

29. Shh, Bluto is on a roll....

[FrenchieCat]

31. !

[POAS]

52. Wrong Bluto!

[POAS]

51. Wrong place!

[vaberella]

27. Thanks for your informative outlook.

I'll it in the same folder as secret santa messages & unsourced articles. Because I find your post just as unhelpful to the discussion.

[Teaser]

34. doom is so boring.

.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Just like there is no chance the Democrats will kick the traitor Lieberman out of their caucus

But speak out against the war, or speak in favour of universal health care, and they all get brave and attack you.

[AlinPA]

41. The republicans want Obama to fail. Lieberman is a republican. He will filibuster.

[IndianaGreen]

43. So why is he still chairing Homeland Security Committee and spying on the caucus?

Does the word appeasement ring a bell?

[AlinPA]

48. Yes but he is not holding up his end. He stabbed the caucus in the back. Reid is

not decided what to do with him and is stuck with him.

[cornermouse]

45. The republicans won when the democratic party

put women's rights on the table as a bargaining chip. Anything else will be a bonus for them.

[jonnyblitz]

53. i guess it CAN get even worse than it already is. nt

[ipaint]

54. The big money from health care lobbyists is in the senate.

They know exactly who they needed to buy to get mandates and no government run option.
I think there will need to be major conncessions to pass anything. If that is the case the first thing dumped needs to be mandates.

[Jennicut]

55. Yes, and then it needs to be reconciled with the house bill and a final vote has to take place

on that final bill, pleasing both houses of congress. And we wonder why we never got health care reform before. It is a long road ahead and we won't know what is in the final bill until it is done.

[sudopod]

56. Thanks!

I didn't see the other dozen threads that said this!

[dionysus]

57. i respect your opinion cali but i hope you're wrong on this one.