So what happened?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

Quite recently the House vote seen as a mere formality and votes were being rounded up for medicare+5.

Suddenly the House is life-and-death just to pass a less robust plan with an atavistic anti-choice measure being needed to get over the goal line.

Is this all about independent voters in New Jersey and Virginia?

Were the House Dem opponents just laying back hoping for a wing-nut miracle before making the extent of their opposition known?

Both? Neither?

[aSpeckofDust]

1. The church and it's house followers happened. They are a party onto themselves.

[AllentownJake]

2. New Jersey and Virginia spooked a lot of people

as did state wide races in other states.

of course acknowledging that isn't liked around these parts.

[bbinacan]

3. I do think

that had something to do with it.

[high density]

14. Well in Maine we just voted down a couple of crazy right-wing tax ideas

Yet I haven't seen Olympia Snowe quaking in her boots and getting a clue.

[AllentownJake]

16. I think her being a Senator

and not being re-elected till 2012 has something to do with it...you also voted down gay marriage at the same time.

[high density]

19. So some people are spooked because you say they are

and others aren't because you say they aren't. Yep, got it.

[AllentownJake]

20. That is pretty accurate

I'm pretty sure Evan Bayh can give a shit less, he has 12 million dollars and is the most popular politician in Indiana.

I'd say someone in the House who won election for the first time in 2006 or 2008 from a district that used to be republican is probably a little more spooked and I'd say that democratic governor's up for re-election or the nomination in 2010 are shitting their pants.

[Aramchek]

4. this wasn't as close as it appeared. Pelosi released some Dems in Red Districts to vote against it.

I really don't think Kucinich would have voted against it if his vote had made the difference, either.

[demwing]

5. Iilke to believe that, but am unconvinced

a link to a good source would be appreciated, if possible

[AllentownJake]

6. They almost postponed the vote on Friday

and if it wasn't for the President personally walking to the House Saturday this would have failed.

[Aramchek]

7. did it pass, or did it pass?

[AllentownJake]

8. I'm addressing your premise

You said people were released...there was not a confirmation of 218 votes till miday Saturday. On Friday there was talk of postponement.

This was a squeaker. If it wasn't a squeaker I doubt we would have had an hour long debate on a woman's right to choose right before the vote.

[Aramchek]

9. Pelosi knew what she had. She wouldn't have held the vote if it had a chance of failing.

[AllentownJake]

10. There would be no-anti choice admentment

on Friday if she knew what she had going into Saturday.

[Aramchek]

11. first, it's not anti-choice, it's anti-subsidy. second, Nancy allowed the amendment.

you underestimate her.

[AllentownJake]

12. I'm sure the leadership in the house

wanted an hour debate on abortion prior to making history

:rofl:

[high density]

15. Well if that was needed to get the votes

It seems to have worked.

:rofl:

[AllentownJake]

18. Didn't say it didn't work

just saying if this was a done deal this week...that amendment would have never made it to the floor.

[Aramchek]

21. how else would the amendment have been added?

it had to go to the floor.

[AllentownJake]

22. Yes but the House Leadership decides what comes to the floor for debate

So if this was a done deal..guess what this would have not been debated last night.

[Aramchek]

23. perhaps the deal with the blue dogs was for the vote, not a guarantee of inclusion

if the amendment had failed, the language would not be included in the Bill

[villager]

17. It is, of course, anti-choice, in that the pratical effect is to limit what poor women can chose

as in "actually chose to do."

Kind of like, sure, abortion's "legal," but we'll keep murdering abortion doctors and watch the government do nothing about the hate groups behind the killings. Voila! Fewer doctors performing abortions!

Hence, in a very real practical way, "choice" is limited.

[Aramchek]

24. are there currently any government subsidies for abortion?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

25. Is it your impression that all exchange-offered plan customers are subsidized?

If a choice-plan cannot be offered through The Exchange we are not just talking about government money.

We are talking about access, cost containment, convenience, availability from certain employers, etc..

If I can purchase a choice-plan through the exchange please correct me. I do not want to be mis-informed on the point.

[Aramchek]

26. you can purchase a plan, just not with the subsidy. it has to be a rider which you pay for yourself.

[villager]

27. it prevents insurance companies from offering coverage *already included* in current policies

It is an anti-choice rollback. Quite obviously.

[DrToast]

13. Stupak. (nt)