How can anyone here support the President on his escalation of the war in Afghanistan?

[cali]

President Obama is building himself a legacy with this move, and it's unlikely to be a good one.

This is no more a "winnable" war than was Vietnam. And at a time when the economy is stretched thin, spending billions and billions more on war is just not something I can support.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. Chess

[cali]

3. and with this move, he loses.

[ThomCat]

14. Then maybe he should learn to play this game.

People keep talking about it, but he keeps making checkers moves. :(

[timeforpeace]

88. It is pretty stupid. First he's labeled a warmonger and last a president who lost a war. Legacy.

He won't be remembered for anything else.

[valerief]

2. All our wars are shams and should be discontinued immediately!

I agree with you.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TwilightZone]

5. I don't support it, but it doesn't surprise me.

He ran on focusing on Afghanistan. I wish he'd consult a little more with the Russians on how well it worked out for them a while back.

[ProSense]

6. Has he announced his plan?

Q Robert, as far as you know, has the President decided on number of troops, additional troops he'd like to send to Afghanistan?

MR. GIBBS: No, no. Despite the many chances to read otherwise throughout the weekend. Safe to say if he'd made a decision, I think we could free up at least part of his Wednesday.

Q What about a proportional breakdown between trainers, for example, and combat troops, anything like that --

MR. GIBBS: No, no.

Q -- or any thought to where they might come from?

MR. GIBBS: Well, thought from where they might come from?

Q Fort Campbell comes to mind.

MR. GIBBS: Oh, I mean, look, I think -- I mean, obviously there's -- we know where very specialized troops are, but I don't think that the President has -- I doubt we've have gotten to identifying what fort they're at without getting to a number.

Q Also, just to circle back to something you said earlier, is the President consulting outside groups or particular people outside the Situation Room to talk about the Afghanistan review strategy?

MR. GIBBS: Well, let me make sure I understand. Is he having discussions outside of the meetings, or is he talking to participants throughout the process that are different than just those in the meeting itself?

Q Yes. (Laughter.)

MR. GIBBS: Wait a minute, that's my answer. I know that the President has had occasion to talk about the issue of Afghanistan outside of that -- outside of those meetings and outside of just those participants, yes.

link

On edit: this was at about 1:30 p.m.

[Cha]

12. I was just thinking when I

was about to get out of this thread that "I'll wait to hear it from the Prez"..and then I saw your post.

"Robert, as far as you know, has the President decided on number of troops, additional troops he'd like to send to Afghanistan?"


"MR. GIBBS: No, no. Despite the many chances to read otherwise throughout the weekend. Safe to say if he'd made a decision, I think we could free up at least part of his Wednesday."

[ProSense]

17. The sources is a CBS article, which also quote the AEI's Kagan

here


Sounds like neo-cons trying to pressure Obama.

[Cha]

19. And, get a rise out of the

gullible.

[karynnj]

95. True - and there has been a pattern of them doing this

from the leak of McChyrstal's numbers to nearly weekly articles that Obama will do this.

[xultar]

7. If Hillary had done it DU would be burning.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

20. Of course!

The cheerleaders would have said that Barack wouldn't have done it if he were President.

:eyes:

[impik]

29. No would have said it. Barack was very clear about

his intentions in Afghanistan during the campaign.

[martymar64]

34. And he's very wrong about it

It was wrong when he said it during the campaign and he's wrong about it now.

Mark my words, our campaign in Afghanistan will bring about the collapse of the Amerikkkan Empire the way it brought about the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[impik]

68. Maybe he's wrong and maybe he's right, but

this is where he stands and it's no surprise. If he's wrong, i guess he'll be gone by 2012 - to the delight of the always-right-Left - but at very least i know that he gave it a long and thorough thinking, he's the one seeing the intelligence and i trust that his judgment is based on facts and clarity, and not by ideology or the love of war.

[ShortnFiery]

50. Then many of us need to MAKE IT CLEAR that he will be a one term President. n/t

[Aramchek]

51. you gonna vote for Palin?

:rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

61. No, but thanks your your typically ignorant response.

I'm voting for DK.

[impik]

69. Go for it

[spiritual_gunfighter]

64. What are you talking about?

Obama talked about Afghanistan at length during the campaign we all knew he was going to focus on Afghanistan and probably eventually escalate there. He was talking about going into Pakistan which even McCain thought was a dumb move. I think the war in Afghanistan is not sustanible and we should get out immediately, but for people to now be surprised at his eventual escalation is ridiculous.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

83. "Which even McCain thought was a dumb move" Yeah, McCain wanted to go to war with Iran.

[Lord Helmet]

92. Clinton, Muller & Gates are advising Obama to escalate in Afghanistan.

LINK

[SIMPLYB1980]

8. Easy.

I agree with him.

[martymar64]

35. Then when are you signing up to go?

Or are you just another chickenhawk that agrees with wars as long as you don't have to personally fight them?

[SIMPLYB1980]

38. LOL!

:popcorn:

[martymar64]

41. Answer the question

If you are in favor of this war, why aren't you first in line to volunteer to go?

Afraid you might get hurt? Or are wars only to be fought by other people?

Put your money where your mouth is, tough guy!

[SIMPLYB1980]

65. I've explained it before in other threads and tire of it.

So I'll just sit here with my popcorn and watch you scream. :popcorn:

[martymar64]

84. Whatever, dude.

I guess that makes you a chickenhawk,then.

As far as screaming goes, that will left to the families torn apart by the lives of their loved ones lost in this war.

You can have a good belly laugh at their expense.

Enjoy your popcorn, I hope it sticks in your warmongering throat.

[NavyMom]

94. As a mother with a loved one currently serving in this province I can tell you I prefer

our President take his time and to look at ALL the issues prior to making a decision. Some knee jerk reactions is not looking at the big picture which can affect civilians here at home, so if he takes 3 months at least I know his decision was an informed one.

Should he not send others to ensure the men/women currently serving have backup or is not sitting ducks. The President & State department has already given Karzai a deadline on his supposedly leadership, so if the man that has the power to send my son ANYWHERE in the world says he is taking his time to look over all information to ensure he is making an informed decision then I will give him ALL the respect he deserves and the time he asked requested.

[msongs]

9. maybe HIS bible says gay marriage bad, endless war good. nt

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Every single example from history shows that this will be a disaster.

I am disappointed that more troops are being sent into Afghanistan.
This does not portend well for 2012...

[branders seine]

11. cali is making sense...

-gulp-

[cali]

13. I almost always make sense.

I challenge you to find any post of mine that's irrational.

[branders seine]

36. it's a compliment.

take it.

:-)

[Sinti]

15. No - hell no

Sending more men to kill civilians and die for no reason is unconscionable. The UN has pulled out half its people. Even the UK is getting testy, because Karzai is a crook (duh).

Maybe when President Obama actually speaks on this he'll say, we've looked at this form every angle, and the best thing we can do is pull our troops out, we cannot support the corruption in Afghanistan, there is no Al Qaeda there, and we're bringing our boys home.

[Oregone]

16. Playing the game right can be considered a Democratic win.

We need a win now baby!

[Autumn]

24. I'm sure that this one will

definitely be a REAL Democratic win. After all, he campaigned on it. It can be fixed later.

[Autumn]

18. I hope he isn't

giving Gen. McChrystal the additional troops he wants in Afghanistan.

[Aramchek]

21. He told you how he felt about Afghanistan before you voted for him.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

23. I voted for him in *spite* of that, not because of it.

And as such, although expected, I am still disappointed with this turn of events. I still do not support the escalation in Afghanistan.

[Aramchek]

33. Just don't pretend like his actions there are surprising or a sell out of some campaign promise

[RepublicanElephant]

44. same here. war is always disappointing. nt

[PurityOfEssence]

43. Boy, did he ever.

He was right there reminding everyone that he wasn't some typical Democratic cream puff and that he wasn't soft on Islamists. Still, people hailed him as a peaceful guy, and he was happy to try to have it both ways, as is always his wont.

[Forkboy]

46. I know. It's one of the reasons he was next to last on my list.

[LittleBlue]

56. When we voted for him, we voted for a thinking human being

who can judge the situation on the ground. Back then, we did not know Hamid Karzai was fraudulently elected. We're fighting for a tinpot tyrant.

[seaglass]

81. Ahhh, everything is clear to me now. Should not have voted.

You are right, my vote makes me responsible for what Obama has done and what he will do and I am ashamed.

[LovinLife]

22. We must fight them over there to keep from fight them here.

Are freedoms is at stake. We must protect the homeland. The Taliban was behind 9.11. We haven't had another 9.11 becuz we're fighting them over there.






I'm all out of idiotic right wing talking points.

[spartan61]

25. I just read "KIte Runner" and "A Thousand Splendid Suns."

Although it was fiction, it really helped me to understand better what the Afghan people have had to endure with the Soviets, Mujahadeen, Warlords, Taliban, etc. and now us, the USA. Innocent people are being killed by our bombs, although they aren't targeted. It's a consequence of war that we call collateral damage. My heart aches for these people and all they have had, and are still having, to endure.

The fighting in Afghanistan has gone on long enough. Not only are the Afghan people paying a price, but so are our troops, our country, our people, our economy etc. I'm afraid that this will become Obama's Vietnam.

[karynnj]

96. The author of Kite Runner was one of the experts at one of the SFRC hearings

on what to do in Afghanistan. His comments there were very interesting and gave a different perspective. http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/2009/hrg090917a.html

[EC]

26. How?

Because he's a smart man, who has done the groundwork and studied the options...so I think he'd know what he is doing. I trust that he really knows what is really in our better interests and that he has a conscience...

[Egnever]

27. Well this ain't going to be popular

But I think we still have a problem remaining inside pakistan. I think there has been precious little time so far to address this problem but there has been progress. I think we need to give some time and support on the afghan side of the boarder and yes drones inside the border to go after the remaining al-queda. There has been in my opinion important strides taken already since obama has been elected to get the pakistan gov to start addressing the problem they have inside their own border something that was allowed to fester far too long under Bush.

I would like to know what the end game is but I would also like to allow Obama a chance to make a move on those al-queda remnants inside pakistan before we pull out.

Now if thats not what he is intending and instead trying to nation build then I am not on board. However I think Obama has always been focused on Al-queda. He has been advocating real action in afghanistan for as long as I Have been paying attention to him. I am not surprised he wants to try to do something about it before he gives up there.

Thats how I feel about it. Feel free to persuade me that I shouldn't. Fuck you war lover wont work BTW, though I am sure I will get that.

[impik]

28. Well, he was clear about it during the campaign and

anyone who voted for him, knew it. While i wish he would take a different decision, i trust him that he thought of every option and made a calculates, facts-based decision. He's the one who see the intelligence briefing, he is far-far from being a war monger - so, with a very heavy heart - i'll support his decision and pray that he made the right one.

[IndianaGreen]

30. The choice was between Obama and Bomb, bomb, bomb...bomb Iran

It was a choice between a bad war in Afghanistan and an Apocalypse. Our votes were never an imprimatur to Obama's war dreams.

[impik]

40. Well, you made the choice. You can't say you didn't know

it was coming. I didn't say you have to support it, but it was his position for a long time.

[PVnRT]

63. Which is exactly what people here are saying

They voted for Obama in spite of his view on Afghanistan and other policy views, which leaves your original post starting this subthread kind of meaningless.

[impik]

70. Well, 2012 is not that far

[PVnRT]

73. Gee, you forgot to tell me that I just want my pony

:eyes:

[amandabeech]

82. That pretty much sums it up.

I was in shock when he talked about going into Pakistan, but I figured that would be better than turning Iran into glass.

Obama also seemed like the type who could re-evaluate the situation in light of current circumstances. McCain would have gone ahead no matter what.

The FUBAR Karzai election, the UN pulling out half its staff and the Brits having second thoughts hopefully will give Obama plenty to re-evaluate.

Edit: Now Gorbachev has urged Obama to get out and Gorbachev has been there and done that. Perhaps Obama should have a little chat with Gorby.

[bvar22]

31. Wrong then.

Still wrong.

Just because I was forced to vote for Obama (lesser of two corporate evils) in no way means I suddenly have to support his insane escalation of The Wars.

I OPPOSED or military involvement in the Middle East BEFORE Obama spoke at the 2004 convention.
I STILL oppose it.

K&R for Cali's level headed assessment.
I join her in her opposition.

[Egnever]

32. No one said you had to

[opihimoimoi]

37. If the Goal is to prevent them Nukes(within the sphere of influence) from getting into

terrorists hands....there seems to be no choice but support the effort.

[ProSense]

39. Gen.Jones: "Reports that President Obama has made a decision about Afghanistan are absolutely false"

Gen.Jones: "Reports that President Obama has made a decision about Afghanistan are absolutely false"

[Cha]

42. Of course, and we were right to question this statement by

the mediawhore cbs.

Always a good rule of thumb..don't get sucked in by corporatemedia bc it will always come back and bite you in your stupid ass.

[Starry Messenger]

45. I don't know...

but hopefully they will all enlist. Sounds like we could use the increased manpower. Especially since we keep kicking out the gay military who wanted to be in.

[Garam_Masala]

47. Yes! I want Osama captured as the president said

during campaign. And as Barack said he would pursue the terrorists across
the border into Pakistan if necessary. I really admired him for saying that.
Hope he meant it!

The war in Iraq was a complete waste of treasure and blood. Afghanistan war
is not. I think the president knows it quite well.

[Forkboy]

48. You got me, but I'm sure someone has a rationale that works for them.

[ShortnFiery]

49. NO!

He just lost my vote for 2012 with that one act. :grr:

[donheld]

52. Can't, Won't

:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[babylonsister]

53. Do tell: what is his plan? afaik, he hasn't said anything yet. nt

[akbacchus_BC]

54. I totally agree with you. Spend the fricking money on health care

for Americans and close down the bases in different countries. The Russians tried it with Afghanistan, fail, now the US is pretending one up! Leave the fricking people alone, nobody helped in the Rwandan suicide, guess they don't have oil. And bring the troops out of Iraq but the US has a responsibility there. You break it, you need to pay for it.

That's all I have to say! Thanks for reading.

Peace

[LittleBlue]

55. He lost me with this one.

Completely. I would not campaign or give him a dime after this. I might not even be interested enough to vote for him again.

All he's doing is the Lyndon Johnson song and dance: tying us irrevocably to a hopeless war that we will pay for politically for ages. Sorry, I won't play. This report had better not be true.

[Vidar]

57. Most of us don't.

[Roosesvelte]

58. I Say We Support The President On This One

He's had less than a year to turn things around. There is a lot of inertia in Afghanistan due to neglect from the previous administration.

[DCBob]

59. Afghanistan/Pakistan still harbor those who were involved in the 9/11 attacks.

Left to their own devices we could see similar events occur again.

[cornermouse]

60. Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Columbia or

Venezuela or Russia or China... wait a minute, we don't attack anyone of equal size, we only attack small countries like Vietnam or Korea... We could attack Egypt or the palestinians, or we could turn our attention to the African continent. India might be an option. Think of all the cheap labor profits to be taken and it would use Bush's preemptive war policy to prevent a war between them and Pakistan...

Our best chance to get bin Laden was right after 9/11 while Bush was in office and he failed when he decided to go gallivanting off to Iraq. If you want to attack anyone who might engage in 9/11 attacks you need to attack the whole planet. Keeping this country safe is the responsibility of the CIA and FBI. I suggest we allow them to do their job and bring our soldiers home.

[ShortnFiery]

62. +1

[olegramps]

78. I am not so sure that bin Laden is even alive.

I can't help from thinking that if his supporters knew he was dead that some of their enthusiasm would be cooled. I would like to add that in my estimation that killing Muslims, especially innocent victims, is not conducive to winning friends for a cause regardless of how noble it is. It appears to this lone soul that isn't privy to all the intelligence that our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan have been actually counterproductive.

Why in the hell are we pursuing the nitwit policies of the PNAC neo-cons that got us in this damn mess? Isn't it a sign of mental illness when you keep doing the same thing while expecting different results?

[IndianaGreen]

67. Then we should bomb Saudi Arabia!

It is Saudi money that finances a global network of Wahhabi madrassas that teach anti-Semitism and martyrdom. We must drain the swamp of terrorism at the source.

[anonymous171]

85. It's not worth waging a full scale war just to capture a couple of terrorists.

[ClarkUSA]

66. How can anyone here have voted for Pres. Obama last year after he campaigned on this issue? nt

[rvablue]

71. Something tells me in an alternate reality, you'd be taking the exact opposite position on this.

Call me crazy, but my intuition says so.

[GeorgeGist]

72. Single-payer wars ...

are good for profits.

[PVnRT]

74. K&R

[quantass]

75. Let's not forget that Obama had always said he would focus on Afgan...

It doesnt bother me much that we are in Afghan because he had made this clear long ago he would. But seeing as how their gov is very corrupt (yes, even more than the U.S.) it doesnt look like a good strategy to stay...that is, unless he has intel that says otherwise...

I know one thing for sure..if he captures/kills Bin Laden EVERYONE here on DU (not Fox News) will be praising his "Chess" move.

[ej510]

76. I don't support this bullshit at all.

Obama hasn't made a decision on how many, but he has made a decision. The decision is ending the war is off the table. (He actually said troop withdrawal off the table, same difference.)

[Jennicut]

77. I don't support more troops there. But wake up guys, the military is leaking

things because they want to box Obama in on more troops. Its is an epic struggle of Obama vs the military. He needs to be strong here and tell them to go to a flying leap off a tall building. These assholes have leaked stuff from day one not to mention McCrystal has been lambasted by Jones and others for telling everyone who will listen that 60,000 troops plus is the only way to go. Is Obama strong enough to deter them and do the right thing? I don't know. We shall see. Obama could go with a smaller troop # to placate them but nothing will stop their lust for more war. And it won't do any good over there when you have a corrupt govt. that cannot provide a trained force, cannot be worked with to do a counter insurgency. McCrystal is off his rocker if he thinks more troops will solve those problems. Really, Obama needs to shut it down now. The military needs to learn to accept defeat or we will be over there indefinitely trying to win an un-winnable war.

[ItNerd4life]

79. How can anyone NOT support his decision?

Iraq was wrong, Afghanistan was a legitimate war.

Why the hell are you blaming Obama because Bush f**ked up and didn't finish the job?
Instead Bush went into Iraq and took the resources needed to win in Afghanistan.

Didn't people here despise Bush for Iraq? One reason being he wasn't doing the job in Afghanistan?
So now, Obama wants to do what's right and do the job in Afghanistcan and you're complaining?

How two-faced are people?

[Freddie Stubbs]

80. He is keeping a promise he made during the campaign

What proof do you have this war is no more winnable that Vietnam?

[jenmito]

86. How could anyone who felt so strongly about this have voted for Obama?

We all KNEW he called Afghanistan "the good war" and that he was for concentrating on it.

[jeanpalmer]

89. Well I think a lot of people

were hoping it was just campaign rhetoric. It did cause me to pause and re-think my support. If there had been a competitive candidate at the time who promised to get us out of the wars, I would have switched my support to him/her. But there wasn't one. So I voted for him with reservation, hoping he would do the right thing. But I'll do that only once. Once he makes the wrong decision and sends the troops, I won't vote for him. Of course, he has already sent more troops, maybe about to send more.

[WinkyDink]

87. He could listen to Gorbachev.

[jeanpalmer]

90. Yes

Gorbachev...said the U.S. can’t win the conflict there and should begin pulling out its soldiers.... Afghanistan...is too fragmented between clans to be controlled militarily.... saw no chance of success even with more U.S. troops. “I believe that there is no prospect of a military solution,” Gorbachev said in Russian through a translator. “What we need is the reconciliation of Afghan society -- and they should be preparing the ground for withdrawal rather than additional troops.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=asU7vQB.TpKk

[Onlooker]

91. DU has the same sort of ignorance as FreeRepublic

There are many people who DU who have blind love for Obama. From their point of view, everything he does is with a purpose. If he chooses to put troops in harms way and killed Afghani civilians and children, it must be a wise chess move. These people fail to understand that it's possible to support Obama overall, and still oppose some of his policies. These are the type of people who would have backed LBJ' escalation of Vietnam.

[Hamlette]

93. It was a campaign "promise". Didn't you vote for him? You knew what you were getting.

[ProudDad]

97. I knew what we were getting

that's why I DIDN'T vote for him.

[TheKentuckian]

98. I'm against it because I see no pending reward worth the known risk

I know full well what Obama campaigned on and understood what he was looking at strategically in March but I figured he has much more data than I do and figured to wait for the plan. We'll the plan is a debacle with very fuzzy definitions of success so I'm against escalation at least until I hear some real answers to even the simple questions of a layman.

The media and most people have become laser focused on troop numbers and are ignoring goals, strategy, and exit strategy. I've not heard a winning path on this yet. I'm not a dove so if I have comprehendable goals and a realistic path to achieve them then I could accept military action but no one is making a case for what we are buying with this amount of blood, treasure, and time.

Further, I find it unacceptable to give foreign nations an open checkbook to build their countries while our is falling down around us with almost no appetite for the massive scale reinvestment we need.

[ncteechur]

99. It is easy to make the call when you don't really have to make the call. He is privy to

much more information than you or I. I'll let him make the decision he thinks is the best one.