BREAKING-OBAMA REJECTS ALL AFGHANISTAN OPTIONS GIVEN TO HIM

[jenmito]

Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.

ETA link:

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama does not plan to accept any of the Afghanistan war options presented by his national security team, pushing instead for revisions to clarify how and when U.S. troops would turn over responsibility to the Afghan government, a senior administration official said Wednesday.

That push follows strong reservations about a possible troop buildup expressed by the U.S. ambassador in Afghanistan, Karl Eikenberry, according to a second top administration official. In strongly worded classified cables to Washington, Eikenberry said he had misgivings about sending in new troops while there are still so many questions about the leadership of Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

Obama is still close to announcing his revamped war strategy — most likely shortly after he returns from a trip to Asia that ends on Nov. 19.

But the president raised questions at a war council meeting Wednesday that could alter the dynamic of both how many additional troops are sent to Afghanistan and what the timeline would be for their presence in the war zone, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss Obama's thinking

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_us_afghanistan

[chill_wind]

1. ! K & R.

[happygoluckytoyou]

113. WOW THINKING AND CLARIFYING..... (please direct republicans to a dictionary on this concept)

[Cha]

2. So he's got his own

ideas from all his advisers and his own council.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. My God, I did not expect this.

I fully thought there would be many more thousands of our precious young men and women going off to die.....

For what?

Wow.

Now, this is change I can believe in.

K&R

[Schema Thing]

5. well that could still be on the chess board

[jenmito]

11. It shows he's is taking this VERY seriously. Whatever his final decision will have been thought

through extremely well.

[jenmito]

7. He wants to clarify how and when U.S. troops will turn over responsibility to Afghan

govt., and to make clear our presence is NOT open-ended.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. That's the sensible way to do it.

Could you see McCain doing this? I sure could not.

[jenmito]

12. Yup...

and nope.

[Not Sure]

101. McCain? Nah...

...he'd just "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Afghanistan."

[Enthusiast]

117. And Iran.

I hope President Obama just tells those fucking chicken hawks we are done wasting money on Afghanistan. Not to mention the lives placed in harm's way.

[phleshdef]

23. That clearly means he is of the mindset of how best to end this thing

[Clio the Leo]

38. My thoughts as well. NT

[Orsino]

87. We should come up with a name for this new strategy.

We could call it an "exit strategy."

[defendandprotect]

123. Large Banner: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, for real--!!!! And then go home . .. !!!

[still_one]

13. I didn't expect this either, but I will reserve judgment until the full story is played out /nt

[chimpymustgo]

88. I pray this is not another head fake to give us hope before the final disappointment.

We have lost enough lives there. It is very heartening to hear the course of the conversation change this morning. Thank God for Eikenberry.

[loudsue]

91. My feelings exactly.

I don't know whether he's posturing for the folks who elected him (us, the masses) or if he's freaking out the $1-trillion per year military industrial complex to shake 'em up some, seeing as how they're the ones with a missle to his head.

I wouldn't have Obama's job for any price.

[eleny]

4. I'm so happy for now that I've rec'd every thread

I guess I was starving for a shred of good news.

[jenmito]

8. Thanks. :)

[ej510]

6. This will mean something if he plans to leave Afghanistan soon or some time in the next year.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

10. Good. Ever since the election the GOP has been framing this like Obama MUST do what Generals etc say

instead of the other way around.

It's just another way of making him the "boy" and basically saying he has no authority as PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

Of course they were going to criticize him for escalation actions following McChrystal etc. too. Goes without saying.

I was afraid that Obama had fallen into their trap, but apparently not.

He NEEDS to define and state what goals/victory are in Afghanistan and present that to the American people and his assessment of what is achievable.

[jenmito]

15. Exactly. The generals need to figure out a way to implement HIS strategy. n/t

[EffieBlack]

27. But, but . . . those white men TOLD him to do it different

Won't he get in trouble if he doesn't do what they say?

:sarcasm:

[Cha]

28. They can "frame" all they want but

Pres Obama is going to be doing it the way that he thinks is the best for now and the long term..like every other policy he puts forward.

[Bleacher Creature]

14. I don't understand. How is this possible?

I thought that a President was supposed to do whatever his advisors tell him to do. It's almost as if he's thinking about the issues and making his own decisions. Crazy stuff!

[jenmito]

16. I guess we just have to get used to a REAL leader/president

finally.

[harun]

89. I actually don't think this is possible. Will believe it when I see it.

[defendandprotect]

124. Obama knows this is all BS war . . . and he's looking for a way out ...

[Thrill]

17. Watch the neo cons at the Pentagon start leaking shit to the Washinton Post

They'll try to force his hand now.

[jenmito]

18. Looks like they already tried that and failed. n/t

[Thrill]

21. They have but the next step is them pushing Cheney's meme of dithering

Here is the Headline

"Military Commanders upset with President's dithering"

[jenmito]

24. He obviously doesn't care what anyone accuses him of.

He would've caved by now.

[Clio the Leo]

40. And that's one thing that sets him apart....

.... he gives the impression that he has NO need for an approval rating .... that he would walk away from the whole thing if he wasn't able to do what is right and still be happy with his life and his family. He does what is best for the country BEFORE what may be politically expedient.

And in so doing, retains the trust of the American people.

[HopeOverFear]

42. There ya go!!!!! +1

[jenmito]

44. And that's because he's the same person who

ran for president and won despite the odds, ignoring the advice from EVERYBODY.

[Clio the Leo]

48. Have you read Plouffe's book yet?

He talks about his fall 2006 appearance on Meet the Press. A candidate always rehearses what questions he might be asked before hand so there's no surprise answers.

At the time, he hadn't even made up his mind if he was running, much less declared his candidacy, but he was THINKING about it. He had flatly denied wanting to run when Tim Russert asked him in the winter of 2006 and it was a truthful statement.

There was a lot of buzz about a possible run because "Audacity" was out and some grassroot support was forming so they thought Russert might ask again. So Plouffe and Axe were trying to think of how he should answer the inevitable question.

After listening to their thoughts the President answered, "well, why I dont just tell him the truth? I can say that I meant what I said several months ago, but since then, I've changed my mind."

Plouffe said that it was at that moment he knew he was dealing someone unlike anyone he'd met before (He'd just recently met him.) .... The answer was SO simple and SO obvious, yet it wasn't the typical heming and hawing a potential candidate might give. It was so mind-blowingly obvious, it just might work.

It was this pragmatic approach to politics that convinced Plouffe to agree to be his campaign manager even against his own better judgement and desires.

And the rest is, literally, history.......

[jenmito]

92. No. I've only seen the movie on HBO...

you know-how they followed Obama from the time before he even announced to his election. As a matter of fact, I watched it the same night the HCR bill passed in the House Saturday night before the vote happened. And just from THAT I could see how special Plouffe and all the others thought Obama was.

But thanks for the description of Plouffe's discovery of how unique Obama is. And I remember both appearances of Obama on MTP like they were yesterday.

O/T-I went back to search my DU history to figure out the exact day I became a full-fledged Obama supporter. It was in July 2007 after posting about how Wesley Clark would be such a great president, hoping he would run. But even then I was for a Clark/Obama ticket. FrenchieCat was for Clark, too, and after we knew Clark wasn't running, we were fully behind Obama. And the rest is history. :)

[Joe Chi Minh]

84. I loved the fact that he kept his name, "Hussein"! How to Win Friends and

Influence People! He just took Dale Carnegie, the icon of our capitalist business world to the woodshed, and gave him a sound thrashing.

[jenmito]

93. So do I...

especially at his inauguration-"Barack Hussein Obama." :)

[defendandprotect]

126. Agree . . . impressive . . .

[impik]

72. Yep. He'll go home

after 4 years if he feels that he didn't do or can't do the things he want. He's not there for the perks.

[Tigermoose]

96. +10

Great point. That IS a big factor in why I trust the man.

[Enthusiast]

118. Probably.

The M$M will never report anything positive about President Obama anyway. He might as well just go ahead and do what is right.

[defendandprotect]

125. And right on top of the new "terrarist" attack at Ft. Hood . . . Wow!!!!

:evilgrin: :party:

[Jennicut]

19. They have already been doing that for weeks now.

Obama realizes they are trying to box him in.

[ClarkUSA]

20. Then watch the Haters/Failers post the misinformation here 24/7 with great meoutrage. nt

[PopSixSquish]

35. Well They Already Leaked to CBS News

so I expect nothing less...

[CakeGrrl]

22. K/R

[harkadog]

25. Unnamed sources for this information

It is not worth any more than the unnamed sources who said Obama was going to send in 40,000.

[vaberella]

29. Actually I would agree with you if it didn't reiterate Obama's own position on the matter.

And also reiterated and confirmed by Gibbs and others in his cabinet. I had a problem with the article for just that reason. But Obama has stated that he won't send in troops needlessly and he needs to know what can be done to stabilise Afghanistan and how long that would take. He doesn't want to stay there indefinitely and I think the Dover incident added to sobering his position on the matter. So Obama himself has said this in the past. Gibbs has recently confirmed that Obama has made no decision even after countless meetings and briefings. This thread has posted once a week pictures from every meeting for the last 2-3 months. So we know the Generals have been giving suggestions and he still hasn't made move. So he's still considering it which confirms the above report.

Edited for misspeling in title.

[jenmito]

30. Yup. Gibbs repeatedly told reporters that Obama has not made up his mind yet. n/t

[Clio the Leo]

41. Except that it's in keeping with this....

.... separately sourced article.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8750525

[winyanstaz]

26. Well this is good news...I think...

and I am hoping this signals the end to these wars...
Time will tell.

[saracat]

77. I agree. I will be very happy if President Obama ends this.

This would be a remarkable step forward and a moment of pride.

[firedupdem]

31. The article also states that this is not an "open ended" war....

I'm so happy this man is president.

[pscot]

32. This sounds like very good news

Time will tell.

[BlooInBloo]

33. Clearly it's just a lie...

Everybody knows Obama is a war-monger. :P

[jenmito]

34. And he's just like Bush.

:P

[liquid diamond]

45. Careful.

There are those here that will take you seriously.

[AspenRose]

52. Hey stranger

:hi: good to see you

[Cha]

54. Wow, I

didn't even see your post whence I posted mine below:)

[Cha]

53. That's right,

stranger!

[HopeOverFear]

36. DEAR GOD I LOVE THAT MAN!!!!

Obama...sigh :loveya:

[jenmito]

39. He clearly doesn't care what pressure ANYONE tries to put on him.

And ditto. :D

[rwheeler31]

37. Karzai is killing all hope for his country.

[ShadowLiberal]

43. Unless we get rid of Karzai & put in a government viewed as legitimate nothing will work anyway

I think the real problem in Afghanistan now isn't so much the number of troops, it's the fact that the government is no longer viewed as legitimate and elected by the people, how can we convince people to stop fighting us and join our side when the leader of Afghanistan is basically viewed as both ineffective and not legitimate?

Sure we had problems in Iraq at times with Maliliki not looking too effective, but there was never any question that he was legitimately elected by the people, never questions of serious massive fraud like in Afghanistan.

The problem to getting rid of Karzai however, and just trying to start over again is that it could just make things even worse, and cause even more chaos to take place if the people think the US will keep on knocking down any government Afghanistan citizens set up that we don't like. As far as I know the only people that have had any success constantly overthrowing a new government when it gets corrupt have been a country's own military that gets sick of the corruption/etc. I forget what country it was, but there was one army that overthrew their own government like 4 or 5 times before they finally got a new government that wasn't a corrupt dictatorship that pretended to be elected by the people.

[jenmito]

46. What makes you think it's just about the number of troops? He's obviously thinking about

EVERYTHING.

[undeterred]

47. Bring all the troops home now.

I'll bet that wasn't on the table.

[bullwinkle428]

49. This is the most HOPE I've felt in a long time!

:thumbsup:

[Odin2005]

50. Is that the exploding heads of the neo-cons and Obama-haters I hear?

[davidpdx]

66. The Obama haters wouldn't give him credit for doing the right thing

they would have to kill themselves if they did that!

[Major Hogwash]

51. You just made my day, jenmito!!

Hugs and kisses for you!!!

[jenmito]

94. I'm glad!

And thanks. I'll take 'em! :)

[Caitranne]

55. This report is based on two anonymous sources

Just like the previous ones.

[Aramchek]

78. you might want to post that a few more times

[Aramchek]

79. ha! you're contagious...

;)

[Caitranne]

56. This report is based on two anonymous sources

Just like the previous reports.

[Caitranne]

57. This report is based on two anonymous sources

Like the previous reports.

[Caitranne]

58. This report is based on two anonymous sources

Like previous reports.

[Caitranne]

59. Sorry. Only meant to post that once!

I keep getting this bug error when I hit post. Please delete duplicates.

[ElboRuum]

106. The dreaded posting error...

PROTIP: If you get this error, hit back on the browser, copy your text to your computer's clipboard, and refresh the thread you were posting to and see if it actually took. I think you need to be able to accept cookies to post, so you might check that browser setting.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[ElboRuum]

108. Whups! It just happened to me, too.

It must be a problem with the site.

[Kdillard]

60. Some parts of this article confused me. It says he has rejected the

Proposals given to him by his advisors but that there still could be troop increase. I do like the fact that he wants to make it clear that US troop involvement is not open ended. It is excellent that he wants a timeline and process for handing things over to the Afghan government. I also like that Obama is not allowing himself to be railroaded into further involvement in Afghanistan that by any measure would not end well. I figured he would not want to have his Presidency to end up like LBJ nice to have it confirmed.

[impik]

73. There will troops increase for sure, but

only as a part of a clear way to end this thing. That's how i see it.

[BREMPRO]

61. so the news reports about him already deciding to send 35k troops was likely more subterfuge by

those that want to escalate the war for profit and neo-con whatever. Pleased to see Obama really deliberating, considering all the implications given the corruption in Karzai's govt., and taking civilian control and ownership of the strategy, rather than simply following the military generals advise. BIG change from Bush who just gave the generals what they wanted without question, and without having a strategy or exit plan.

[backscatter712]

62. Very good news!!!

Maybe it's not the end of the war in Afghanistan, but I think Obama's starting to realize that the generals are playing politics, and that it may not be possible to win, or even define conditions of victory in Afghanistan.

Today, he just told the generals, the CIA spooks and the rest of the hawks "Don't blow smoke up my ass or undermine my authority - I'm the President of the United States. Give me the truth, present me with a realistic plan, and obey my orders, or I'll find someone else who will."

[ccharles000]

63. k/r

[RepublicanElephant]

64. malloy says obama should hand this over to congress...

...and force them to make a declaration of war, which is where all this belongs constitutionally.

[vaberella]

81. Explain this to me in detail.....I don't know what you mean. n/t

[RepublicanElephant]

82. War Powers Clause

Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution, sometimes referred to as the War Powers Clause, vests in the Congress the exclusive power to declare war, in the following wording:

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Five wars have been declared under the United States Constitution, although there is some controversy as to the exact number.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Clause

because of this, malloy was saying that obama should hand over the how-to-wage-war-in-afghanistan question to congress, since they never declared war in the first place.

[Vattel]

129. Congress did declare war

by authorizing the President to wage war against Al Qaeda, the Taliban, etc. For the Founders, declaring war was nothing more than publically proclaiming or revealing that the United States is either in a state of war with some other nation or group (this was known as an unconditional declaration of war) or will be in a state of war with some nation or group if certain conditions are not met (that was known as a conditional declaration of war). Declaring war was regarded as the only acceptable way to create a state of war. Thus, only Congress has the constitutional authority to create a state of war. Malloy and those who claim that the US has declared war only five times seem to be confusing a declaration of war with some sort of formal declaration of war in which the word "declare" appears.

[RememberWellstone]

65. Good!!

I am glad he is taking a stand! Finally! He is now a decisive President that I can support...he has waiting far too long to end the war. The time is now!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

67. Obama also needs to take special note of any general, senior or not, who appears to

be undermining his authority in public, and make a big public example out of them by ending their career and replacing them with someone who will not subvert their CINC.

[chill_wind]

103. I would be very supportive of that.

eom

[elleng]

68. in photo, VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN AT PREZ O's RIGHT.

[elleng]

69. VP BIDEN sitting at Prez O's right in photo:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/President-Barack-Obama-Situation-Room/photo//091111/480/59c9c57cbd4342c98a0d735db2c0a336//s:/ap/us_us_afghanistan

[leveymg]

70. Finally, he's showing some independent judgment. If only Johnson had done so in '64.

Time to turn this country away from foreign wars and turn around the economy.

[leveymg]

71. Finally, he's showing some independent judgment. If only Johnson had done so in '64.

Time to turn this country away from foreign wars and turn around the economy.

[saracat]

74. I really do hope this signals the end of this horrible war.I will be really happy if

Obama winds this down. This is a positive sign.

[Lord Helmet]

107. I'm glad he rejected HClinton/Mullen/Gates proposal to escalate by sending 30K more troops.

LINK

3 Obama Advisers Favor More Troops for Afghanistan

WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton are coalescing around a proposal to send 30,000 or more additional American troops to Afghanistan, but President Obama remains unsatisfied with answers he has gotten about how vigorously the governments of Afghanistan and Pakistan would help execute a new strategy, administration officials said Tuesday.

----> Obama rejected that proposal and the three others on the table.

[saracat]

75. really do hope this signals the end of this horrible war.I will be really happy if

President Obama winds this war down.

[saracat]

76. really do hope this signals the end of this horrible war.I will be really happy if

President Obama ends this.

[Sky Masterson]

80. Yes!

:)

[unhappycamper]

83. Wow! An Exit strategy.

Who woulda thunk?

[pleah]

85. K&R

[pleah]

86. dupe

[spiritual_gunfighter]

90. Didnt see this coming but I maybe should have

I hope this means exit stragety.

[jenmito]

95. It sure sounds like it!

[Clear Blue Sky]

97. Meanwhile it's a brisk business for manufacturers of body bags...

[jenmito]

98. You think Obama doesn't know people are dying over there? That's why he's taking this so seriously.

:eyes:

[lyonn]

115. Obama has been up close and personal with this issue lately

There was Dover, Ft. Hood where he spoke with the families of those killed and the wounded, plus the wreath laying event yesterday. Each of those events had to be heart wrenching.

In Sy Hersh's article last night he discussed how in Afghanistan the enemy (taliban/crooks, etc.) was being paid off by contractors that needed safe passage on the roads leading to the troops with supplies. What kind of war is this.......

[jenmito]

116. That's right. So he obviously is putting himself as close to the "consequence of war" as he can

in order to help make his decision. And I'm sure he knows about the corruption which is why he wants plans detailing how Afghanistan will take over so our troops can come home.

[Tigermoose]

99. If he is going to bring the troops home, this would be the way to do it.

He can't just do a knee jerk switch from his campaign promise to escalate. He has to go through a deliberate process and slowly signal to the American people that escalating is not in the best interest of the American people.


I think that he is going to wait until healthcare legislation passes before announcing his decision on an exit strategy. Then he'll move on to financial regulation or climate legislation.

[Soylent Brice]

100. K&R

[TheKentuckian]

102. That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!!! (nt)

[davidwparker]

104. Choose this one -----> Get out now.

[jenmito]

105. Nice sig line.

:eyes: :puke:

[Martin Eden]

109. IF TRUE, then Obama may have the COURAGE to do the RIGHT THING

What is the RIGHT THING to do in Afghanistan? It's easy to say pull our troops out now, but the consequences have to be considered -- such as the Taliban re-taking Kabul and the Repukes re-taking Congress and the White House when they successfully pin the blame for failure in Afghanistan on Obama and the Democrats.

However, unless the government in Kabul that we have been propping up can clean up the rampant corruption and develop the capability to be an effective government for the whole country, all the blood & treasure we pour into that country will be a tragic waste. We can't stay there forever, so the collapse of a weak corrupt Afghan govt would be inevitable.

Obama is apparently smart enough to understand that unless a vast change in Afghan politics takes place it is useless to conduct a nation-building operation there. The president is also smart enough to understand the political consequences at home if he decides to "cut and run" now. That course of action would require much more POLITICAL COURAGE than implimenting McChrystal's plan to send 40,000 more troops in a futile attempt to control a country that has been the graveyard of empires throughout its history.

This will very likely be the most important decision of Obama's presidency. What he decides and how he explains his decision to the American people will go a long way in determining whether he is the leader our country so desperately needs.

[newtothegame]

110. Must be his own military expertise kickin in. n/t

[jenmito]

111. He never served in the military but he's obviously taking this VERY seriously, even moreso than some

who HAVE served.

[Bette Noir]

112. Now is the time to shower Mr. President with letters and emails

encouraging him to wind this war down. He's clearly thinking about it.

[jenmito]

114. He supposedly said he wants to know how to ultimately bring home the troops. n/t

[defendandprotect]

119. hmm....... hope for the best -- get the hell out of Afghanistan and Iraq . . .

Looks like one of the easiest ways to destroy democracy is by bankrupting

the Treasury . . .

Oil . . . privatized military, anyone?

Drugs?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

120. The innate corruption in the Afghan Government

will not be resolved anytime soon if ever. Obama's final decision must be taking that into consideration. There are less than
one hundred Al Qaeda left in Afghanistan so what are we fighting for? I pray Obama has the courage to cut our losses and
bring our troops home. There is nothing to prove, nothing to win and a great deal to lose if we stay.

[saracat]

121. I applaud this measure taken on the part of the President. Now lets get out of there!

:toast:

[Mira]

122. I do not have time, and am a bit reluctant to read the responses.

so I simply say this: I did not know just how coiled I was about this decision until I heard the news last night that the decision is not made.
I had begun to believe we will feed 40 000 more troops into the region and it was just a matter of announcing it.
When I sat there with tears in my eyes, and my jaw clenched in wide eyed surprise, the old feelings about "Yes we can" and "hope" came flooding back. The feelings I so treasured that icy morning in Washington on the mall on 1/20/09
Please, Mr. President, do what we elected you to do.
Please.
And while I'm at it, investigate and put the crooks away so we can all breathe freely again.

[Martin Eden]

127. IF TRUE, then Obama may have the COURAGE to do the RIGHT THING

What is the RIGHT THING to do in Afghanistan? It's easy to say pull our troops out now, but the consequences have to be considered -- such as the Taliban re-taking Kabul and the Repukes re-taking Congress and the White House when they successfully pin the blame for failure in Afghanistan on Obama and the Democrats. Picture the Islamic extremists celebrating their defeat of the "Great Satan" and the field day the rightwing spin machine will have with that.

However, unless the government in Kabul that we have been propping up can clean up the rampant corruption and develop the capability to be an effective government for the whole country, all the blood & treasure we pour into that country will be a tragic waste. We can't stay there forever, so the collapse of a weak corrupt Afghan govt would be inevitable.

Obama is apparently smart enough to understand that unless a vast change in Afghan politics takes place it is useless to conduct a nation-building operation there. The president is also smart enough to understand the political consequences at home if he decides to "cut and run" now. That course of action would require much more POLITICAL COURAGE than implementing McChrystal's plan to send 40,000 more troops in a futile attempt to control a country that has been the graveyard of empires throughout its history.

This will very likely be the most important decision of Obama's presidency. What he decides and how he explains his decision to the American people will go a long way in determining whether he is the leader our country so desperately needs.

[Life Long Dem]

128. I believe we should support the President so he can do his job.

I believe ending this war was what the President said he would do. War is Peace.

[paparush]

130. Does anyone else get the shiver of JFK's ghost?

Obama making noises about possibly de-escalating a no-end-in-sight war.

War profiteers fat and full of 8 years of our tax dollars, not wanting the pumps shut off.

Makes me shiver.