Wes Clark - A Man Of Many Hats

[burning bush]

Like this one, where Clark wears the hat of Ratko Mladic (yep - RATKO!). That's Clark in the middle, Mladic just to Clark's right. Don't they look like they're having a nice little laugh?



Here's another photo of Mladic:



That one would be his Interpol Wanted Poster from this page:
http://www.interpol.int/public/Wanted/Notices/Data/1995/54/1995_47754.asp

Mladic is wanted for the following:
ASSAULT, CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, CRIMES AGAINST LIFE AND HEALTH, GRAVE BREACHES OF THE 1949 GENEVA CONVENTIONS, MURDER, PLUNDER, VIOLATIONS OF THE LAWS OR CUSTOMS OF WAR.

Just 2 or 3 years ago, Clark wore the hat of a GOP fundraiser, telling all the GOP gang what a swell guy GW Bush was, how we all should appreciate him and his group of advisors.

Now Clark wears the hat of a Dem presidential candidate, even though Clark was not a registered Democrat until just before he announced he wanted to lead the party.

Clark wears many hats. What hat will he wear tonight? What about tomorrow? What hat will he wear if he gets the Demcratic nod? What hat will he wear if he doesn't?

[ClintonTyree]

1. Oh Boy,

you're going wish you'd have worn a combat helmet by the time this is over.

[burning bush]

2. just another hat

maybe Clark has one he could lend me?

[Bolo Boffin]

3. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Rehash of the same old talking points.

At the time Clark met with Mladic, Clark was director of strategy, plans and policy for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. According to a 1999 Newsweek article, those who knew the general chalked it up to a last bid for a diplomatic solution when the international plan to divide Bosnia appeared destined to fail. Despite Clark's meeting with Mladic, the plan did fail. Yet the US continued to negotiate with Milosevic and, at Milosevic's insistence, Mladic. Clark was a key player in negotiating the Dayton Peace Accords, and it should be noted that no amnesty was afforded to either Milosevic or Mladic for their role in atrocities against Muslims.

...Nobody has alleged (though Fox is working on it) that after Clark met with Mladic, they became penpals or went fishing together. Clark clearly didn't make the visit because he had always wanted to be Mladic's buddy. Mladic was an opportunist who hoped he could buy himself into Clark's good graces along with securing some good publicity promoting the false appearance that he was on friendly terms with the US.

What did Clark hope to gain personally out of his meeting with Mladic? Does anyone imagine that Mladic said "Hey, if you meet with me, I'll give you this really nice gun and we can trade hats!" and Clark said "Oh hey, that sounds fun! Count me in!" Given Clark's position in the government, his negative feelings about the Bosnian regime, his loyalty to his country, and his oft-stated concern that war be used only as a last resort when diplomacy has failed, it's not a stretch to imagine that Clark was attempting to save lives and avert a military conflict, which is what his associates concluded.

http://blogs.salon.com/0002556/2003/09/22.html

[Printer70]

6. Bad Excuse

Even if we "negotiated" with Saddam, Colin Powell "hanging out" and joking around with Saddam would be inappropriate. Clark gave the impression that we were siding with Mladic and fellow war criminals, and that is irresponsible. It also injures America's standing abroad. It shows bad judgment.

[rogerhall]

8. I thought you were against neo-conism, but ...

now you seem to be saying that an attempt to avoid conflict and to work with your allies to find a solution is bad ... but doesn't that leave you with might-makes-right or la-la-la-la-la-la-la as your only alternatives.

Tell me Printer, what would you have done to save the Albanians?

[Printer70]

14. That WASN'T my argument

In my post, I didn't criticize the last-minute diplomatic effort (though, it is kind of Pollyanish), but you don't cavort with people you will have to engage in war with. That was what was bad judgment. It was unprofessional. And it sends the wrong message.

[Bolo Boffin]

16. And if he hadn't learned from the experience...

...I might agree with you that it's relevant. But it's not, because he has.

[rogerhall]

9. And how did Clark 'give the impression that we were siding' with anyone?

Are you auditioning for a Fox show here, or what?

What did he say? Gimmie a link!

[burning bush]

7. Doesn't matter, the Photo Op is forever

Serious gaffe for Clark, regardless. IIRC, Clark says Ratko tricked him into the trade. Look at Clark's face in the photo. Does he look like he just got cornered into a bad photo, or does he look like they are all about to go have a beer and watch a ball game?

Oh, and there's the video of Clark's speech at the GOP boggie down in Pulaski, where he praises Bush.

Oh, and the photo of Clark and KLA leader Thaci doing the victory handshake thing!

Those will be fun in the months leading up to November.

Clark is a military man, he should stick to a beret.

[Bolo Boffin]

13. A gaffe he's acknowledged.

At another point, in an effort to prove General Clark's cordial relationship with General Mladic, who has also been indicted as a war criminal, Mr. Milosevic brought up an incident in 1994 in which General Clark posed for photos and swapped caps with him. General Clark, who has since apologized, said: "This was a difficult meeting. I did my best in terms of military diplomacy to take something constructive from it."

http://www.novaserve.ns.ca/html/article2736.html

Ah, yes, an argument only certain Dean supporters and Milosevic could love...

[burning bush]

18. Good for Him, but so what?

Will Clark say "Yaeh, I blew it on that one, but it wasn't so much."

While Fox replays the video, repeats the photo, ad naseum, over and over.

I thought Clars great strength was his great foreignpolicy judgement.

Oh yeah! What was it that Clark said? - "If they come after me on I'll kick their ass!"

Them's strong words, General! And while I would looove to see Clark kick Bush's ass on prime time TV, I don't think getting thrown in jail for assult would do much for his popular support.

Unless Clark was just wearing the tough guy hat.

What hat will he wear tomorrow?

[Bolo Boffin]

23. See Post #22 for what Clark HAS said on the matter.

And Clark said that he would "beat the sh*t" out of anyone who questioned his military record, not "kick their *ss." Get your quote straight.

[CWebster]

26. You can sleep through it, my man.

but be assured, the Republicans aren't slipping into unconsciousness because it is news they don't want to hear.

You couldn't be doing Democrats a bigger disservice by dismissing this continually.

[Printer70]

4. Rove TV Ad- you know it's coming

Here's how it will go:

--
President Bush removed brutal dictator Saddam Hussein from power. He started down our enemies.

Here is Wesley Clark enjoying the company of Ratko Mladic. Only one problem. Mladic is a war criminal accused of viciously ethnically cleansing Serbians and Muslims in Bosnia. Instead of arresting him and bringing him to justice, Clark was making a new friend.

Who will protect America's Security: You have a choice.
--

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. AWOL is going to go

down the military road with Clark? Think again. KKKRove is scared shitless of a Clark nomination because he knows the mindless wonder doesn't have a chance in hell against Clark and his military service. The chickenhawks are shaking in their boots.

Clark has already apologized for trading hats and this is old news....going nowhere. It's known by everyone. Has already been seen on TV, many times and it's worn out.

OK, next bash.

[dfong63]

5. imho Clark should try on the hat of "senator" or "governor" first,

... before trying for the hat of "president".

[Clark Campaigner]

10. Ever hear of "the fog of war"?

How could have Clark known at the time?
This is a non-issue.

[burning bush]

12. So that's what Clark will Say?

"How Could I Have Known?"

I thought the guy had 35 years of military experience? I thought he was Supreme Nato Commander? I thought you were betting on his ability to make sound foreign policy decisions?

Her's a photo - Saddam in jail, next to Wes Clark playing pass the hat with a murderer!

You think this photo is a NON ISSUE?

[Bolo Boffin]

15. You will note...

...that he was promoted to NATO commander well after the meeting with Mladic.

Yes, I think this photo is a non-issue. It's embarassing for Clark, but it's a mistake that he's acknowledged. It certainly didn't hinder his further advancement in the military.

[LoneStarDem]

11. Oh come on!

What did you want him to do, walk up, pull out his Colt and shoot him in the head? "There's a new sheriff in town, and his name is Clark!" At a high enough level, where the lines between the military, political, diplomatic, and humanitarian situation blur, the focus is on the result, not the appearance. To be effective, one must know ones enemy, learn his strengths and weakness. Clark is, by all reckoning, an amazing intuitive judge of character; his meeting with Milosvitch allowed him to exploit a number of personality weaknesses that he picked up on. This meeting was no different. We weren't in a position to strong-arm them into meeting our demands, and to make a huffy stand on principle could have cost people their lives. You do what you need to to beat your enemy and achieve your goal. It's like the cafe scene in the movie "Heat". Just because you are cordial to someone doesn't by any means mean that you agree with them or that you won't take them down.

[burning bush]

17. Oh, so Clark was just playing Ratko for a chump?

But on Tim Russert's show Clark admits that the taking of gifts from a suspected war criminal/known bad guy was "a mistake."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3476052/

DUH it was a mistake. Oh, Clark also took a bottle of booze and a nifty handgun. Forgot about those.

And tell me this, if Wesley played Ratko so well, why the hell is the guy still on the loose?

[FrenchieCat]

21. So what?????

Clark was fully vetted when he became a 4 star General by a Republican congress. So What??? You think there are angels here on earth waiting to become President? I don't think so!

This is not a issue because we won't let it be an issue! Bush and his plastic turkeys can go to Afghanistan next, for all we care. The point is Clark isn't perfect, but he did win a war without a single American dying...and did negotiate a peace treaty that is still existence to date. I mean, has Bush done that? No, Bush caught the wrong villain after 9 months, 500 Dead soldiers, 9,000+ woundeds, and 160 Billion dollars that has "poof" disappeared. Yes, a commercial like that funded by a 527 Soros type will work just fine right about now.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20031220.shtml
In conversations with political friends, Soros confided he has become alarmed by Dean's recent performance and wonders whether the former Vermont governor is capable of defeating George W. Bush. In one such chat, Soros suggested he is interested in retired Gen. Wesley Clark.

[LoneStarDem]

22. God that's lame

Wait, now the focus is on the *gifts*!?

Sure, it was wrong, because of the image it sent. Clark admits it.

But if you -read- the link you just provided, you can see, in Clark's own words, why the meeting was necessary:

"GEN. CLARK: It was a mistake to accept the gifts. But let me correct the headline in the story, Tim. I was never warned not to see him. In fact, I was advised to get both sides of the story by the people who had preceded me as Balkan policy experts. I had to write the issue paper for the United States government on how we proceed. And at the time, of course, Mladic was not an indicted war criminal. Of course, everybody knew he’d been in command. He was a bad guy. But I’d been that morning over to see the Bosnian soldiers. I’d gone in the trenches above Sarajevo.

We’d looked at the Serbs over there. They’d given me gifts. I had to get the other side of the story, so I went to see Mladic. We were trying to persuade the Serbs at the time to sign a peace agreement, so it seemed to me that, importantly, for the United States to get the policy right, we needed to talk to leaders of both sides. And I was—I thought it was very important that I be able to talk to the general that, if he didn’t comply, we might have to fight someday. So I should not have accepted the gifts."

And as far as Ratko being on the loose, I haven't seen him driving any tank collumns lately, so the neutering seemed to have done it's job.

[jonoboy]

19. that's the British commander Gnr Michael Jackson to the right

[burning bush]

20. Jackson is on OUR right. Mladic is on CLARKS RIGHT

Just to clear up any confusion :)

[Rowdyboy]

24. Polls getting you down, huh?

I can understand. It must hurt to be so certain you have things locked up and then things break wide open again.

Hey, did you know Clark voted for Reagan? Might be an interesting thread for you to post there!

[Moderator]

27. Locking.......

1. If you start a thread in the General Discussion forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. Some examples of things which should generally be avoided are: unnecessarily hot rhetoric, nicknames for prominent Democrats or their supporters, broad-brush statements about groups of people, single-sentence "drive-by" thread topics, etc.


DU Moderator