Clark's support of the School of the Americas may turn off liberals

[Freddie Stubbs]

WASHINGTON - In a position that's likely to alienate some Democratic primary voters, retired Gen. Wesley Clark is a big booster of the controversial "School of the Americas" - which critics charge has history of graduating Latin American soldiers accused of rape, murder and torture.

Clark fought for years to keep the school at Fort Benning, Ga., open, even testifying on its behalf in Congress, despite graduates like imprisoned Panamanian ex-strongman Manuel Noriega.

Clark's backing of the school - whose curriculum once included teaching torture, execution, kidnapping and blackmail - puts him at odds with many Democratic officials and groups like Amnesty International, who want the school closed.

Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) calls the school a "stain on our reputation" and leads the effort to close it. "With all due respect to the general, the school is an insult to our troops," he said. Nearly all Democrats in New York's congressional delegation oppose the school and Reps. Dick Gephardt (D-Mo.) and Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) voted to shut it.

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/13799.htm

It looks like some hard-core liberals may have to take a second look at theier support of General Clark.

[WillyBrandt]

1. Thanks for quoting the New York Post

Us deluded liberals need constant reminders from the Murdoch media about whom to like.

Thanks for playing your part!

[wndycty]

5. Hey its fair. . .

. . .I just hope the original poster is consistent as it relates to the credibility of the NY Post:

December 17, 2003 -- HOWARD Dean was fit to be tied yesterday
after rumors swirled that the Democratic frontrunner wore a
Maidstone Club necktie during Monday's foreign policy speech.
Dean's parents were members of the snooty East Hampton country
club, where minorities and Jews were excluded for decades, and
reminding voters of his connection to it would seem risky. But
upon closer examination, Dean's rep tie turned out to be
decorated with Mallard ducks, not the Maidstone crest. "The
only person who might attack him for wearing that tie would be
Mr. Blackwell," quipped Dean spokesman Eric Schmeltzer. A
Maidstone general manager said he was unsure if the club even
sold ties.

http://www.nypost.com/gossip/43950.htm

[ErasureAcer]

10. Thanks for the info

I knew Clark wasn't as liberal as he is said to be.

It looks like Dennis is the only one who can save the Democratic Party.

www.kucinich.us

[WillyBrandt]

13. Rupert Murdoch: Clark isn't liberal enough

My god. What are people thinking?

[TLM]

65. Clark supporters were quoting the post to bash Dean

over the fact some comedians said some off color things at one of his fundraisers.

So do we only use the Post as a source if they're bashing Dean?

Are you saying that Clark did not testify before congress to keep SOA open? Or that CLark is not/was not a supporter of the SOA?

I got news for you... the SOA support is one of the lesser marks on Clark's record of supporting right wing authoritarian war mongering.

[jmaier]

2. Yep

It's very funny how suddenly credible sources like the NY Post, Wash Times, Weakly Standard, et al, become when they publish something negative about one of your candidate's opponents.

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. They are credible sources for news, but not for opinion

Is there anything factually incorrect with the article? I am sure that if there is, the Clark campaign will correct it.

[Jerseycoa]

17. credible source for news?

The Post hasn't been credible since Dorothy Schiff owned it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

26. Just becasue you dont like their ideology doesn't mean they are inaccurate

The New York Time's editorial page is liberal, yet they have had some problems recently with fabricating facts.

[Jerseycoa]

34. Gave it up as a lost cause years ago

If it were a news piece, it would have discussed, as well, how the school was reformed during the Clinton Administration. But it's not news, just smear.

[RememberTheCoup]

32. Not necessarily about bashing an opposing candidate

Some posters like to publish negative stories about *any* Dem - no matter how biased or unreliable the source.

[frustrated_lefty]

3. Maybe he only supported the

SoA back in the days he was voting republican? But he's a democrat now, you know? And SO handsome! *swoon*

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Well it's true

I don't like the SOA.

[cprise]

6. You don't need to be 'hard-core' to hate terrorist activity

And that's what SOA is: State-sponsored terrorism.

[Renew Deal]

11. If it is so terrible

why does congress continue to fund it. I mean some bad apples came out of there. I get that, but why is it there? Why is it maintained?

[IrateCitizen]

30. Because it serves the "national interest"*

*By "national interest", I am referring to the interests of the few and powerful.

SOA helps to essentially train proxy forces in Latin America. As recently as the mid-1990's (when they were forced to open up their training manuals to the public) it was found that they were training their graduates in activities such as the targeting and elimination of labor organizers, targeting and elimination of anyone criticizing wealth distribution, and interrogation techniques that could be considered torture. When we have successfully trained forces in Latin America to do our bidding, it means that we don't have to be directly involved.

Former Panamanian President, Jorge Illueca, stated that the School of the Americas was the "biggest base for destabilization in Latin America." It has been dubbed the "School of Assassins". Former GA Senator Paul Coverdell, a major booster of the school, assured that the change of name from SOA to Western Hemispheric Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC) was "cosmetic" change that would not alter the school's mission.

The US's record in Latin America has been one of destabilization, suppression of democratic process, and use of brute force if need be for the past 150 years or so. The only thing that has changed in that regard is the PR campaign to convince people otherwise.

[Turkw]

49. And is the mid-1990, as you point out

the school was reformed because the books were opened. And we are not the only players in town that back, or have backed some really heinous people in South America. Clark was a trouble shooter in the military, he has a much better chance of continueing reforming our dealings in South America than a policy of more of the same, revert to the worst of the past, or walk away.

[IrateCitizen]

53. The reforms were primarily "cosmetic changes"

At least that is what Former Sen. Paul Coverdell, a major booster of the school, said after Congress voted to re-authorize it under the name Western Hemispheric Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC).

Clark was a 4-star general in the military. You don't get stars by rocking the boat. You get them by "going along" coupled with a helluva lot of ambition. Do I at all expect him to speak out against SOA/WHISC? No. Do I expect him to move to eliminate or drastically reform it if he should be elected? Not at all.

What I do expect (and hope) is that people will continue to denounce this school for what it is -- the biggest force of destabilization in Latin America -- and pressure for its eventual closure.

[LeahMira]

56. Reformed my foot!

And is the mid-1990, as you point out... the school was reformed because the books were opened.

Reformed only if you think that it's acceptable to train anyone to do the things that the SOA is training people to do. The name was changed. That's about all that was changed. Maybe they are being more careful about their PR these days.


And we are not the only players in town that back, or have backed some really heinous people in South America.

Y'know, I really can't stand that argument. There will always be someone somewhere who is doing something worse than we are doing. If our goal is just not to be the worst in the world, maybe that rationale would be adequate. But, y'know, how about we start looking around to see if there's anyone anywhere who is doing something better than we are.

In fact, we in the U.S. are still so totally paranoid about communism that we fund anyone who tells us they are fighting communism. Even when there's absolutely no evidence that a communist presence exists in any particular nation, all anyone has to do is to make the claim and they are guaranteed full U.S. support for any filthy, inhumane deed that comes into their sick minds.

[Renew Deal]

7. They try to blame Clark for a few bad guys.

Here are some other ones.

A kid chopped up his roomate at Hofstra University. Then he buried him off campus. Wayne Chrebet should have it shut down.

George Bush Jr. went to Yale. Dean is responsible for the Iraq war.

I went to high school with Amy Fisher. I must support shooting housewives in the head.

:shrug:

[IrateCitizen]

19. Irrespective of Clark, SOA is state-sponsored terrorism

When they were forced to open up their training manuals in the 1990's, it was discovered that they had taught their graduates to systematically target union organizers, to target anyone preaching anything approaching liberation theology, had trained them in torture to be used as interrogation techniques, etc.

In short, the SOA is indefensible. It is nothing less than a tool in US foreign policy to construct proxy campaigns to maintain a flow of cheap resources and cheap labor from Latin America. They are a tool of oppression, plain and simple.

Clark's a four-star general and former CINC-SOUTHCOM. It's a no-brainer that he is going to support SOA. But to defend the SCHOOL as graduating "only a few bad apples" is beyond the pale.

[Kolesar]

22. And fools ask: "Why do they hate us?"

'Cuz we beat the living crap out of anybody who gets in the way of our interests!
* "Our" interests are usually the interests of wealthy and powerful Americans.

[KittyWampus]

36. I Estimated Total SOA Graduates To Be Appx. 250,000

And if you want to half that- just for the sake of argument 125,000.


Meanwhile, you are talking about a dozen human rights abusers who also happened to go to SOA. Okay, double that to or qruadurple it to 100...

100 out of control militarymen out of 125,000....

And the worst of the worst seemed to be in the 70's-80's.

[IrateCitizen]

41. Your math is WAY off...

You tried this before, cryingshame. SOA graduates 800 students per year. 800 x 30 does NOT equal 250,000. It's 24,000 over a 30-year period.

And as for the atrocities that DO make the papers, how many out there do you think there are that do NOT? How many instances of systematic torture take place that are shrouded in silence? Hell, when Oscar Romero was killed it wasn't given the same kind of press as any kind of similar abuses committed within the Soviet bloc.

Trying to reduce this to a statistical analysis is a fool's errand. Participate in it if you wish, but don't expect thinking people to be dragged along for the ride.

[KittyWampus]

69. The Stupidity Of Your Argument-Irregardless Of My Numbers Being Off

How many human rights abusers AREN'T graduates of SOA?

Again, try and tell me that MOST of the graduates from SOA are human rights abusers and you will NOT be able to prove this... if you construct any kind of FACTUAL argument... YOU WILL FAIL. All you have going for you is innuendo.

Why can I say this with certainty? Because neither you nor anyone else has EVER come up with a factual analysis of how many graduates are Human Rights Abusers...

All youi do is list the hundreds of poor souls killed by a handful of nasty people SOME of whom happened to go to SOA.

Further, some of the curriculum was rejected by Congress... Was the rest of the curriuculum rejected? Why Not? Is it because the MAJORITY of what is learned at SOA is in fact important and legal?

So perhaps we should condemn whatever information that is against the law or unethical but understand that the SOA or ints current, modern incarnation MAY JUST HAVE A VALID ROLE IN TRAINING MILITARY.

Because you know what? The Supreme Court has come out with some pretty heinous rulings over the years... but we don't want to pull the plug on that... nor do we want, in ACTUAL TERMS, to pull Justices like Scalia off the bench before he is ready to retire...

[LuminousX]

73. The US training just one torturer is inexcusable

[mmonk]

8. old news

and attacking points. Maybe some liberals had rather have bush if they can't get someone "perfect" in their eyes. Its an achilles heel in our party sometimes.

[boxster]

9. My guess is that most people choose their candidate based on

more than just one instance of perceived "conservatism".

Funny that you'd suggest that liberals take a second look at Clark as their candidate for his one potentially conservative stance on one issue.

By that logic, they should drop all support they have for Dean.

Dean's the most or second-most conservative candidate in our field, and he's the front-runner. His fiscally conservative history as governor doesn't seem to have disqualified him.

[ErasureAcer]

12. you're right...Dean is centrist-conservative and...

people should stop supporting him.

www.kucinich.us

[boxster]

16. Check out this recent DU poll....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=916742

I find it interesting that our front-runner is very likely one of the more conservative candidates in the race. Apparently, people are willing to overlook that because he's raising the most money or has the best campaign. Or something. :D

[ErasureAcer]

21. I don't care if your candidate raises $2,000 from everyone

and wins with a unanimous vote(besides mine)...I won't vote for people who believe in the wrong things...and Dean and Clark fall under that category.

Have a nice time handing the election to bush, bush-lites.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. Nader-lite isn't going to win it either

Bill Clinton was a moderate Democrat and defeated a Republican incumbent.

[no name no slogan]

64. With Ross Perot's help, of course

Clinton NEVER won a majority of the popular vote. He won largely because of the candidacies of Ross Perot, who managed to suck off enough moderate Republicans to hurt G.H.W. Bush and Bob Dole.

If Clinton was such a "successful" Democrat, how do you explain the loss of the Senate AND House majorities under his watch, and the declining rate of voter participation?

If that's what you call "success", I hope that ShrubCo has some of that same "success" next year. :eyes:

[Turkw]

51. Rove loves people who think like you do, it makes his job easy

He doesn't even have to lie very hard, you make his arguments for him. I'm sure that Gore,Dean, and Clark would have had EXACTLY the same agenda, pushed the same laws, and nominated the same judges as Bush has.
:crazy:

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. Dean admits that he is a moderate

There are lots of moderates in the Democratic party. How do you think that we got Bill Clinton?

[boxster]

20. I don't see how that is relevant.

You're suggesting we discount Clark because of one conservative view. By the same logic, Dean, an "admitted" moderate (like we didn't know that), should be disqualified entirely.

The party is certainly moderate, as well. I don't see anywhere where I suggested otherwise. With Dean as the front-runner, the party obviously isn't moving left, either.

I would bet money that the "hardcore liberals" are more upset with this fact than they would be with Clark's unwise support of the school.

[Freddie Stubbs]

25. Everyone here on DU is quite aware of Dean's moderate record

But I'm not sure many know exactly what Clark's ideology is. Issues like this may give a clue.

[boxster]

35. People who still claim that they don't know Clark's views on the issues

also haven't bothered to research them, in most cases. It's easier to plead ignorance under the guise of "he's not specific enough" rather than actually read his policy statements.

To be fair, supporters of most of the candidates do that. It's easier to stay on the candidate bandwagon if one is blissfully unaware that other candidates may offer real alternatives and that significant data exists detailing those candidates' views.

[Jerseycoa]

45. Yeah

Issues like the Maidstone Club's whites only policy might give a clue, too. I know he played golf there when he was a kid and his family are members. But Dean gave a speech there only last year. Is Dean a racist? Personally, I don't believe he is, but smear and spin can make him into one. This bullshit stuff is really easy.

[TLM]

68. It is not simply one conservative view...

I mean if you hate black folks is that one conservative view?


Clark has a pattern of supporting republicans and bombing civilains in Kosovo, working as a defense lobbyist, supporting the SOA, supporting the NED, working for Kissinger in the CSIS... this guy is supporting all the wrong things and hooked up with all the wrong people.

But a few months ago he claims he's a dem and we're supposed to believe that crap even though Clark has no record of democratic votes, no background in elected office, and no experience leading people who are allowed to disagree with him.

This man has no business even running for the democratic nomination.

[cprise]

24. I'd say it has more to do with terrorism than conservatism, per-se

.

[TLM]

66. Has Dean suppoerted south american terrroists?

Is Dean co-director of the NED?

[ima_sinnic]

75. it's not a question of being "conservative"

but of being *consistent*

Clark has been my 2nd choice, based mainly on the HUMANITARIAN and visionary sentiments expressed in his speeches. Support for SOA flies in the face of humanitarianism. Clark talks about the USA being a kinder gentler presence in the world but this contradicts that.

Yes, it makes me feel much less positive about Clark; shame on him for not opposing this manifestation of good ole US murder and mayhem.

[jonoboy]

14. Wesley Clark = American Hero & Patriot

[southpaw]

23. I am a Clark supporter...

but his stance regarding the School of the Americas concerns me. I basically see the "school" as being somwhere between a college for future dictators and a terrorist training camp.

[w13rd0]

29. Thank you for your honest admission...

...I'm a Dean supporter, but there are policy positions he takes that I am at odds with, and I would expect that I'd have to be convinced I was wrong or I would oppose a Dean administration on those policies. Most of us aren't looking for a perfect 'messiah', we're just selecting candidates who speak to us or we feel might appeal to the general populace in ways we feel are important. Had a lengthy conversation with a Clark supporter who I respect a good deal last night. Neither of us were convinced to "switch allegiance", but both of us came away understanding a little more about the others candidate, and hopefully feeling a little better about voting for whomever might be the eventual nominee...

[Turkw]

48. At the same time, while the supposed goals of many of the rebel groups in

South America have many valid points and worthy ideals they are supposed to be supporting, in fact they muder, rape, kidnapp, and support drug trafficing.

We need to try to take a step back are totaly re-evaluate what we want to do in South America as a whole and on individual cases. Wesley Clark is someone who was a trouble shooter for the Army, he would go to troubled programs and bases and turn them around. I want someone like this TOO be incharge of the School of the Americas.

[IrateCitizen]

55. Flip that assertion around...

At the same time, while the supposed goals of many of the rebel groups in South America have many valid points and worthy ideals they are supposed to be supporting, in fact they muder, rape, kidnapp, and support drug trafficing.

That goes probably doubly so for the right-wing groups traditionally supported by the United States. Wasn't no Sandinistas running cocaine into the US to support themselves -- that was the Contras.

As for the situation in Colombia, it's BOTH sides that are running drugs -- the RW paramilitaries and the FARC. The sad thing is that, due to our continued involvement in that country and suppression of mainstream union organizing (average of one union activist killed per day in Colombia), we have eliminated any hope of a mainstream popular movement, and all of the activity now takes place around the fringes.

[tameszu]

27. This is a badly researched smear

First of all, Clark's main "support" for the School came in 1996, when he was the CinC of Southern Command for 1 year and at that time the school fell under his leadership.

Second, by the middle of the Clinton Administration, the U.S. had started to clean up its act significantly, with even State Department officials admitting that "they had done a lot of bad stuff in South America" in the '50s-'70s. The School now has a mandatory democratic education and civil rights component. It is a military training center that helps train officers from South American countries: newsflash--by the 1990s, most of the countries in South America had become developing democracies, as opposed to the authoritarian regimes the U.S. had supported in the '50s-'70s. The SoA also went through further reform, with an external independent oversight board. It's supported by countries like Canada--OK, not ALWAYS the paragon of virtue, but hardly an enthusiastic supporter of imperialism in the contemporary era.

Here are the facts on the School (conveinetly dating back to around the time Clark was CinC of Southern Command), now renamed the Western Hemispheric Institute for Security Cooperation, from a non-partisan and progressive research institute's project on South America.

People who protest that institution aren't up to date--they have a right to demand restitution for past injustices, but as far as having real impact, they should turn their attention to the secret detentions and support for anti-terrorism in Asia and so on.

[roughsatori]

33. Read about SOA aka: WHICSC here (a rose by any other name is still a rose)

http://www.soaw.org/new/type.php?type=8 The link is from the School of Americas Watch. I rarely come to DU lately or post, but a white-wash of WHICSC is beyond the pale for even the CentristUnderdground that DU has become.

I am logging off so can not stay to defend above linked site. I invite all who are curious or concerned to explore the site.

[goobergunch]

37. Then why do 103 congressmen think it should be closed?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:HR01258:@@@P

[Kolesar]

38. nothing gets past goobergunch eom

[Phelan]

40. Why did 357 Congressmen and 98 Senator think...

that the Patriot Act was a great idea?
They are human,
I personally don't agree with the School of the Americas but we have done worse in our history and its a left over relic of the Truman Doctrine. Just cause I disagree with the death penalty for Saddam or the School of the Americas doesn't mean that I don't agree with the vast majority of Clarks points foreign and domestic.
If you agree with everything your candidate says then you are not being objective.

[Jerseycoa]

44. Including Rangel

Maybe he knows something about Clark and the school you don't?

[Kahuna]

31. Boy. This is a deal breaker.

:eyes:

[maxanne]

39. so

you are completely willing to overlook, and justify this?

:scared:

[IrateCitizen]

42. It by no means has to be, Kahuna...

But is it something that you are willing to overlook entirely? Or is it something that, should your favored candidate get the nomination and win the election, you feel that pressure should be brought to bear on him to change his position on it?

[Tinoire]

43. When I have time, I'll post the speech Clark gave there

unless someone else finds it first.

I'm beginning to feel so sorry for Clark- all this smoke and no fire... The poor poor man.

Note that this is the school he was praising (I think at that 2001 Republican fund-raiser) about the great things that Ronald Reagan was founded.

Sandanista!

[maxanne]

63. here ya go, Tinoire

The speech Clark gave at SOA in 1996.

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usamhi/usarsa/SPEECH/cgscspch.htm

[1songbird]

46. I have a perspective on this that some may or may not

appreciate. There has not been one single Democratic President that has had a policy on drugs that I agree with. Locking drug users up for addiction is just as barbaric to me as the actions of the SOA. Prison is legal slavery, it's the loophole in the 13th and 14th admendments. As an African American who's race is disproportionately represented in the Prison Industrial Complex should I stop voting for all Democrats because of their support of the war on drugs? I personally see no difference here. I write letters and take other forms of activism to change things that I don't like.

[IrateCitizen]

47. DING DING DING! We have a winner!

I write letters and take other forms of activism to change things that I don't like.

Those who depend on politicians to be the shining white knights who will make everything better are deluding themselves. Politics will almost ALWAYS be the choice between the lesser of two evils. The real work lies in the hands of the people, to drag that lesser evil a little further towards the good.

Thanks for the excellent analogy.

[John_H]

50. The Post bashing Clark? Lunz and Tweety loving Dean? Say it ain't so!

fucking hard for people to get, that is. Mornin' Folks! Another 4 of the chimp 'cause Deans a real cool sweet talkin' grasroots dude!

Plus I don't see that as any bigger of an issue as when the repubs run an add attacking dean for raising healthcare costs on the poor in VT.

[SahaleArm]

52. A right wing article with commentary that parrots the article...

OK, how about some specifics, like dates, times, places, and Clark?

[Scott Lee]

61. Proof that Clark supports the terrorist SOA

Keith Dodge of Plymouth, NH writes: --

General Clark was at Plymouth State University yesterday, 11/18 and was giving a speech to our community in Heritage Commons. I didn't get called on during the Q&A, though I did get his attention afterward when he was shaking hands. I asked him what the thought about the upcoming protests at the SOA and where he stood on the school's operation.

He said that he had once taught there and that he supported the school. When I aksed about the many documented Human Rights abuses commited by SOA graduates, his reply was, " Imagine the things that would have happened if these soldiers hadn't been taught our principles of Democracy." I then asked him if he would support the schools closing and he said "I think the school's a good thing, and no I wouldn't kill it."

http://www.birddogger.org/news.php?id=117

________________________________

Facts. They aren't just for Dean supporters anymore.

[eileen_d]

54. So now supporting Clark means defending torture and the SOA

Nope. Won't play that game. By the way, did you hear that Dean's parents belonged to a whites-only golf club? I read it in the Post.

[Scott Lee]

62. Well then get your man to repudiate Terror Training in the USA!

Clark is a reasonable man, I'm sure he'll hear your arguments, ne?

[TLM]

71. Did that whites only golf club...

ever sponsor brutal murders of civilians, rape, torture, and overthrow of democratic governments?

If not them comparing the two is somewhat, shall we say, inaccurate.


So Clark supports the SOA, is a co-director of the NED, and is an advisor to Kissinger's CSIS.

If any other candidate had this shit on his/her resume, they'd be out of the race for the nomination in a f-ing heartbeat.

[bobthedrummer]

57. I don't think that it's just "liberals" that are against SOA

and a fact is a fact regardless of who owns the media that published it, indeed it is hard to get away from RW biased news in Homeland today.

That said, this little fact coupled with statements made by Clark in regards to neo-conservatives he worked with and admired during his military career leads to many questions about his political orientation and agenda.

Here is an eyewitness account by a union member who was in Colombia where union support is tantamount to being a terrorist, therefore union supporters and members have been butchered by SOA graduates.
http://www.populist.com/02.7.Hirsch.html

Is that what Clark supports in Latin America?

[Patriot_Spear]

58. I didn't know that...

That's kind of troubling.

[Zuni]

59. I didn't look to Murdoch for opinions before

and I am not going to trust him now.

[TLM]

72. No need to trust Murdoch.... just read CLARK'S OWN WORDS

Keith Dodge of Plymouth, NH writes: --

General Clark was at Plymouth State University yesterday, 11/18 and was giving a speech to our community in Heritage Commons. I didn't get called on during the Q&A, though I did get his attention afterward when he was shaking hands. I asked him what the thought about the upcoming protests at the SOA and where he stood on the school's operation.

He said that he had once taught there and that he supported the school. When I aksed about the many documented Human Rights abuses commited by SOA graduates, his reply was, " Imagine the things that would have happened if these soldiers hadn't been taught our principles of Democracy." I then asked him if he would support the schools closing and he said "I think the school's a good thing, and no I wouldn't kill it."

http://www.birddogger.org/news.php?id=117

[Scott Lee]

60. This is my biggest beef with Clark

And it shores up my greatest fear of putting a military guy in the cat's chair. The School of the Americas (now known by the touchy feely name of Western Hemisphere Institute for Cooperation and Security) is a terror training camp run by the Us government, whos graduates go on to organize death squads in Central America, rightwing paramilitary units to overthrow democratic regimes, and commit other terroristic atrocities.

I want to see Wesley Clark clearly and forcefully denounce this outrageous training ground, and distance himself from it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

67. If that were all it was

You commented:

"The School of the Americas (now known by the touchy feely name of Western Hemisphere Institute for Cooperation and Security) is a terror training camp run by the Us government, whos graduates go on to organize death squads in Central America, rightwing paramilitary units to overthrow democratic regimes, and commit other terroristic atrocities."

I don't think it would still exist, and it wouldn't have operated openly for at least the last 15 to 20 years after some of those major abuses started coming to light, if that was the sole or even major mission of that institution. Many tens of thousands have received training of all sorts there. In one instance or another, to varying degrees, everything you said though is absolutely true. And I will go further and say that under the likes of Kissenger, and Reagan's Poindexter and Ollie North crowd, covert efforts to do exactly what you said were hatched by some within its confines.

However I am just not enough of a conspiritalist, or a radical I suppose, to buy that that school existed during the Carter and Clinton years with that as it's main intent, and that both of those Democratic Presidents fully supported everything you note went on there and maintained that school for those expressed purpose. I am more likely to accept that Presidents like Nixon, who set up his own "plumbers squad", and Reagan, who gave a green light to Ollie North's covert operations, allowed those shady operatives to use the cover of working inside those institution to further their covert ends, the same way that illegal and immoral operations are conducted through every established Government institution whenever honor and decency is suspended, including the FBI, the IRS, the INS and so forth.

In short I would say that Clark backed that School when he did because he felts that there was still an appropriate mission for it to play. Reforms were already underway when he spoke. A number of people who were trained there have done some terrible things. More didn't. Clark believes that positive lessons and models for multinational military cooperation have been developed in South America for fighting Drug Lords that can be applied to our international struggle against terrorists, operating in places like Pakistan and Yeman.

I would certainly ask of Clark both now, and should he become President, that he ensure that strong curbs be placed on either that institution, or any other that replaces it and attempts to pick up whatever legitimate functions it pursued, to absolutely minimize the potential for human rights violations flowing from training done at that School. It is my limited understanding that much of the reform efforts that were undertaken focused on that problem, which was most acute in the 1980's during Reagan's anti Sandanista days.

I would go further and say that all abuses should be completely eliminated, and guarenteed never to occur again, but I am too realistic to ask for that about anything. The U.S. will never have full control over the actions of agents from other countries that train with our military. Having said that, I acknowledge that elements of our military have been directly involved in terrible actions.

[imhotep]

70. nobody should be shocked

Clark is a killer, so why wouldn't he support the school?
And his supporters like him because of superficial reasons anyway, not on issues.

[FrenchieCat]

74. you talk

as if you know anything....read this, then talk some more.....

I support Clark on most of the issues...but I support Clark because he can beat bush......why don't you go read those 32 comments....and see what is predicted to happen unless we can do the right thing for once..........nominate a candidate who can actually win.

This Right Wing site is discussing the senate races and is salivating at the mouth......if that's not important...then "you as a supporter" of some other candidate will be crying Croc tears after it's all over.
http://polipundit.com/

Breaux Retiring

Senator John Breaux (D-LA) has decided to retire, rather than run for re-election in 2004. That means Democrats will be defending five open Southern Senate seats in 2004! In fact, the only Southern Democrat senator running for re-election is Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas.

The race to replace Breaux leans slightly Republican. For details, see my full 2004 Senate analysis.

I really, really hope Howard Dean is the Democrat presidential nominee. All those juicy Southern Democrat Senate seats just waiting to be picked up....
posted by PoliPundit at 11:44 AM Link to this post | Comments (32)

[maxanne]

77. well then,

by all means we should do whatever we must to make the right wingers happy. :eyes:

[Tom Rinaldo]

76. It is hard to imagine..

... a fundementally more arrogant way you could possibly have stated your position. Please email me the comprehensive interview surveys of all of Clark's supporters from which you drew your statement. Thank you in advance.