Dean turns tables on rivals

[dajabr]

On Monday, Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean said the United States is no safer with Saddam Hussein in custody, and his rivals jumped on him for it.
.
On Friday, Dean said it again but this time he turned the tables on his opponents, accusing them of backing off their support of the war all during the summer only to reverse positions after Saddam was captured last weekend.
.
“Make up your minds, be proud of your position. Stand up for it,” Dean admonished his rivals to the cheers of people in a packed cafeteria at North High School in Davenport.
.
Dean’s pointed criticism came after a week of battering he has taken over the comment, which was a late addition to a major foreign policy speech. On Friday, Dean said the capture of Saddam doesn’t make the United States any safer, because the Bush administration still has not paid attention to homeland security issues that are the key to the country’s security. Still, the statement prompted U.S. Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., to accuse Dean of being in a “spider hole of denial.”

More: http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1021968&t=Nation+%2F+World&c=26,1021968

[w13rd0]

1. Lieberman...

...one to talk about "spider holes of denial" (hey Joe, the only reason you even APPEAR on the map is because Gore listened to someone telling him to distance himself from Clinton. go away Joe)...

[Jack_Dawson]

2. I Cringe when Dean talks Foreign Policy

It's painful. Sorry.

[frustrated_lefty]

6. Why?

Speak up, you may have a point to make here.

[ClintonTyree]

9. Would you elaborate?

Whay are Dean's foreign policy positions inferior to Clark's? Because Clark was a General? I don't believe a General sets foreign policy, he is a errand boy sent to carry out foreign policy made by his superiors. Even a General takes orders from someone. The notion that Clark is more capable of formulating foreign policy is absurd.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BootinUp]

34. You sound like

you haven't given even a cursory look at Clark's qualifications. I would take the time to formulate a post proving his foreign policy strengths but it would be a waste of time on you I suspect. Clark is already regarded as one of the strongest on foreign policy by most democrats, the media, most DU'ers etc.

[LoZoccolo]

16. I shminge shmen Shmean shmalks shmoreign shmolicy.

Shmit's shmainful. Shmorry.

[Bucky]

33. Shmeloquent

You shmuck :)

[Union Thug]

3. I'm gaining respect...

...for Dean. I'm a set in stone Kucinich supporter, but seeing Dean stand his ground on this issue has made me rethink my initial feelings about him. Dean is right, after all. We are not any safer. It's all an Orwellian a dog and pony show.


I'm glad Dean's throwing punches. Stick and Move, Howard - you may hook me yet!

=)

[slinkerwink]

4. welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

[WaterDog]

8. Wow

Cool photo!:thumbsup:

[slinkerwink]

11. thanks!

:hi:

[virtualobserver]

5. What was Kucinich's reaction to the Lieberman statements......

relating to anti=war candidates and Saddam?

[WaterDog]

10. Welcome

from another pretty new newcomer. :hi:

[caledesi]

17. My thoughts too. HD stands by his convictions not matter what the

outcome is. He is right - they all voted for war (except DK of course) and now that SH was caught, they are "singing a different song." :puke:

[bitchkitty]

29. You tell 'em!

[paulk]

37. standing your ground isn't always the best strategy

remember the Alamo!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

38. ...and Stalingrad.

[Military Brat]

7. We aren't safer with SH in custody. Who will take his place?

I'm waiting to see how it all shakes out before jumping up and down for joy at Saddam's stage-crafted capture. His removal from the scene might be the catalyst which sets off what some experts believe will be inevitable civil war in Iraq. Whether those experts have foreign policy experience or not, I don't know.

There's no point in castigating Dean on his lack of foreign policy experience. How in heaven's name could anyone do worse than bush**?

Edit:

Quote: "The invasion of Iraq was widely perceived as an attack on the Arab world. That's why the resistance is turning pan-Arab. Once again: this is a nationalist and religious resistance movement.

Asia Times Online has ascertained that at least 12 independent guerrilla organizations from different tribes are involved in the mukawama, all vaguely in touch with each other. This loose organization may be about to extend its reach nationwide. But the Iraqi guerrilla movement is extraordinarily complex ..."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EL20Ak01.html

[MGKrebs]

35. Interesting article you got there.

I also saw another similar article the other day (can't recall exactly where now), that basically said:

The vast majority of Iraqis are Shia. But it's the Sunni's who SH put in positions of power. The Shia have been more cooperative with the CPA because it is in their interest to get rid of the SH/Sunni power structure. Now that SH is gone, they will begin to assert themselves toward being the dominant power. But (and I don't know this, but the article was saying) the Shia's are more fundamentalist than the Sunni's, and we won't want them to dominate. Therefore, they will have the motivation, manpower, and means to become more resisant to our authority. Scary.

This is the kind of thing many of us who were anti-war before the war feared. Despite all the other reasons not to go to war, even the most basic inquiry into the various sects/cultures/agendas leads one to believe that Iraq is not a place ready for democracy, especially one forced on them from the outside, where that outside force would presumably be trying to keep the peace.

[JustJoe]

12. Get up, stand up...

PITT: Are you going to be willing to take political risks in going after the administration and leveling criticisms?

DEAN: Don't you think I already have? (laughter) Look, the only way we're going to beat George Bush is to stand up to him. Inside the Beltway, you get trained differently. None of the people I am running against are bad people. Believe me, if one of them gets the nomination, I'm going to vote for them. But inside the Beltway you get trained to minimize the risk, maximize your appeal to every interest group at the same time, and consequently you vote on both sides of every issue....
That's the kind of positioning the American people just don't understand. They think, what is this? Why are you voting every which way? We're not going to win elections like that. People in my party fundamentally misunderstand why this President is popular. The reason he is popular has absolutely nothing to do with the issues. It has to do with the fact that people think he is a leader. The way to deal with a leader is to be another leader, and to be strong in your views and present the American people with a choice. Not to take half of his policies and vote for them, and then say, "Well, I voted for half of the policies, but I thought he was a little wrong on this one." That's not going to win us this election.

[Dr.Phool]

14. Damn right Howard

Keep sticking it to them. As Joe Frazier sais after beating Mohammad Ali, "Keep hitting the body, and the head will die".

Everyone else was afraid of "Bushes Popularity", but it took Howard Dean to show it as myth.

Bush Lite doesn't taste great, and I'm already full of it. Go Home Joe!

[Rose Siding]

18. And Bill Clinton:

"When they're drowning, throw 'em an anchor"

[ViognierSipper]

13. Dean cannot win! cant you understand that

Please stop wasting your vote on Howard HO HO no nothing. He is a loser who will be beaten by BUsh. Please vote for Kerry. He is the only one who has domestic/foreign policy experience.

[virtualobserver]

15. Kerry is plummeting in the polls

also his foriegn policy experience led him to vote for the IWR.

[rucky]

19. The Most Convincing Arguement Yet

We've taken the discussion to a new level.

welcome to DU!

:toast:

[MercutioATC]

23. Yes! I will do that!

...and I will shave my head and sell flowers at the airport with the rest of the delusionals...

Look, Kerry's still a viable candidate, I suppose, but how has he demonstrated that experience in his votes? "HoHo" has a much better insight as far as foreign relations are concerned, in my opinion.

[ima_sinnic]

27. sorry, I'm not going to "waste my vote" on someone polling like 3%

. . . speaking of losing, that's pretty clear cut.

[Demobrat]

36. Kerry can't even win his own state.

Not a real confidence builder.

[Scott Lee]

40. Kerry is falling in the polls almost daily...can you undersstand THAT?

Do I understand you correctly, that you want to put up one of the LEAST supported Dem candidates against Bushhole?

Now what, in the name of all that is holy and logical, for?

[zulchzulu]

44. Iowa poll: Dean 28 Kerry 24 Gephardt 23 Edwards 10

I love the Dean fan overconfidence. Keep it up!

[Rose Siding]

20. I would have been cheering with them

in that HS cafeteria! I wish there were records of some of these whistle stops- it looks like he set it up first. Oh, well- if it worked, he'll use it again.

[eileen_d]

21. OK, this reminds me of Fark

Dean Turns Tables On Rivals at Rave For America

[BigBen]

42. omg

I'm a Dean man, but THAT is the funniest thing I've seen in days.

:yourock:

[FrenchieCat]

22. Dean turned the tables on Who?

can you tell me which "rivals" Dean turned the table against?

[dajabr]

24. That cartoon looks like a NH road...

So, really Dean would not be able to see Clark, as he is currently losing in the polls to Kerry.

I can live with my #2 taking Clark out of the race if Dean falls.

[FrenchieCat]

25. I didn't draw the cartoon...

It was in the Times...along with this article:

http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,565586,00.html

[dajabr]

26. Looks like New Hampshire though, doesn't it?

Very scenic.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. A closer look at that tank...

[robbedvoter]

30. For the record, Clark on Saddam (same day, less coverage, written

all by his own self:


"The entire resistance in Iraq was not run by a pathetic ex-dictator hiding in a hole," the retired general told a foreign-policy crowd in The Hague this week. His solution in Iraq is no different from his rivals: getting help from American allies. But his pitch is all the more compelling because of his experience in Kosovo.

"We won the war, in no small measure because Belgrade could not break the will of 19 democracies united in common cause," Clark said. "I believe alliances are indispensable, not inconvenient," he continued. "I would rather have capable European forces with a say in making decisions, than to have Tonga and the Marshall Islands with no strings attached."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3762367/
I know, it wasn't Rodeo drive, David Crosby or Al Gore overseeeing content, it was NATO in Netherlands. What was that about turning tables?
Edited to add link to speech:
http://clark04.com/speeches/020/

[Rose Siding]

31. The Register says he takes on Kerry specifically.

snip>
"As distressing as the president's conduct was in leading us into this war, the way some Democrats in Washington fell meekly in line with the president was equally distressing," Dean told 150 Des Moines County Democrats at Veterans Memorial Auditorium in Burlington.

"One candidate even spent six months explaining away his vote for the war," Dean said, later identifying Sen. John Kerry as the candidate. "Now, suddenly, leaping on overnight polls, he claims to be proud of his vote."

http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c4789004/23068622.html

This must have been added to the stump.

[zulchzulu]

45. Short little Dean with his big, big lies

Dean attacks Kerry on the IWR vote when he was actually FOR IT originally... since Dean was unemployed at the time and couldn't vote, he then changed his tune to get the far-left vote. Of course, he's going to go right and basically assume they are too stupid to notice the difference.

Dean's own words:
"... Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice."

"On the campaign trail with the un-Bush" by Jake Tapper
Salon, February 2002
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2003/02/20/dean/index1.html

[opihimoimoi]

32. Dean is a coming and the Band Wagon is overflowing. Joe is history

did a no no.

Dean somehow energizes the crowds this despite politics is a tough act and the crowds are tough too.

But more than rhetorical skills, he presents a new dream, a new system, a new approach, one that is inclusive and of a sharing caring type. I believe this and so do millions of others. In the end, the people will awaken just in time to really see the diff and go with HD.

[absyntheNsugar]

39. “Make up your minds, be proud of your position. Stand up for it,”

DAMN! Gotta love that fire!

I'm a Clark supporter, but you just GOTTA love it when Dean takes the tutu's to task!

[HFishbine]

43. And we love Clark

when he does the same. See, we're not that different. Can't we all just... ah, later.