A Poll For Clark Suporters Only

[Hoppin_Mad]

Poll question: A Poll For Clark Suporters Only

With all the recent talk of Nixon and Reagan from the Clark supporters, I'd like to get an overall feel on how Clark supporters think of Ronald Reagan.

Thanks



Ronald Reagan was a . . .

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Hmmm...nice set-up question

Anyway...

[TexasSissy]

79. How true.

[jmaier]

2. A poor President

and I'm not happy about having voted for him over Mondale but I was a military guy in Europe/Middle East so between Reagan's military pay raises and general support for our mission, he tipped me from Mondale.

I did vote for Carter over Reagan. :-)

[uslibertarian]

58. Poor President or Poor Americans

Reagon was a good actor and acted like a president - how easily some of us are impressed and swayed by the performance arts - acting and being are two different things.

I try not to blame Reagon for being a bad President but prefer to blame Americans for electing him twice. We have to take some responsibility for what happens in our country.

[Rowdyboy]

3. This has reached the point of ridiculousness

Now everyone who doesn't like Clark votes that Reagan was a wonderful president! You have proved your point-Clark is a Republican and ALL his supporters are really covert Reaganites. How ever did you find us out.

Its like study hall in middle-school

[youngred]

4. getting anyone on DU to say Raygun was a great president is hard

so I think your poll won't be accurate...particularly since its anonymous

[Hep]

16. Yup

And the best way to get non Clark supporters to respond is by asking them not to.

I promise that I have NOT voted.

[TexasSissy]

5. Problem with your poll is....

I voted for Reagan (the first time he ran). But then as he governed I saw he was a terrible President.

Hindsight has nothing to do with pre-term reasons for voting for him.

Tens of thousands, maybe millions, of Dems voted for Reagan. But I'm sure LOTS of 'em think NOW that he was a terrible President. But I understand voting for him. Sure do. I hated voting for him, but felt I had to vote for someone else besides Carter, and Reagan was the choice.

The Dems. should not have run Carter again, knowing how unpopular he was at the time. Oh, well.

[Hoppin_Mad]

11. Thanks - This is the sort of honest insight I was hoping for -eom-

[dd123]

65. Question is present term.

It's not did you vote for Reagan, it's how you feel about Reagan now.

I think this is fascinating...

[TexasSissy]

78. It's a fake poll to try to say, "Then why aren't you angry at Clark

for voting for a terrible President?"

But those are two different issues. Illogical.

Maybe you have to be old enough to remember the first Reagan/Carter election to understand.

[TrueAmerican]

6. I voted Poor

I would of voted terrible, but I threw *Bush on the scale and it skewed Reagans rating. W is reserved for terrible.

[OKNancy]

7. I voted terrible, but this poll is dumb

unless you ask every known Clark supporter to write it out as I have, then there is no way to tell if the "great" votes are accurate.

Some anti-Clark's could vote "great" just to make it seem like we are all a bunch of conservatives or neo-cons, or idiots. And you know they would do it, don't you?

[Mattforclark]

8. It is undeniable

That Reagan was great for the military.

It is equally undeniable that he was terrible for vegetables and air traffic controllers.

It's not that hard to understand voting for an M-1 over an M-60 when you're the person who would be driving around in the M-60 if the Soviets ever invaded West Germany.

[Trajan]

9. This passes as PRO Dean commentary ????

This is silly ....

Firstly: there is no mechanism to assure a 'clark supporters only' vote ....

Secondly: the notion that a person CANNOT experience a change of heart, or a change of ideals over time, leaves us with the canard that ALL party members are stuck within those parties FOR LIFE; since they can NEVER change their own thinking ....

This is nothing but bait .... and I am not biting ...

Here is my 'vote' ...

I vote to agree that ANY man may vote for someone in the past, then see the error they have made, and then establish a TRUE affection for a set of ideals that diametrically opposes his original vote ...

If it werent for disaffected GOP, the Democratic Party would not be so large ....

Get real ....

[Hoppin_Mad]

13. HUH ? I just read a long thread from Clark supporters extolling Nixon

And hoped to find out how Clark supporters felt about Reagan.

Sorry if this offends.

I have to go out now, but I'll check back later.

[Bread and Circus]

18. What I read and what I said wasn't extolling Nixon...

It's just that sometimes people need to open their
minds and know the facts.

They might just be surprised.

However, too many people around here already
have their mind made up about what seems to be
EVERYTHING.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Jerseycoa]

23. Nixon

Don't even get me started on Nixon. If you had posted that poll you would need a rating in hell as far as I'm concerned.

[Piperay]

48. Don't know who extolled the virtues

of Nixon, I know I said that he was good on the environment (if you like the EPA) and that now it is his party destroying it, the guy other than that was a scumbag, nough said. :argh: :mad: Just for the record, I despise Raygun second only to chimp. :puke:

[Toucano]

10. Terrible! n/t

[andym]

12. terrible for liberals

Reagan was terrible for liberals, progressives and America. He helped push the country way to the right.

But Reagan was extremely personable. Much more conservative than
he appeared on the surface. Got lots done because of his winning personality.

Unfortunately, people near and dear to me voted for him.


As for Clark, I hope he is our Reagan in the sense that his policies are progressive, but because of his background and winning personality he comes across as a moderate. If elected he'll have some chance to get his policies passed by congress, just like Reagan did with a Democratic House.

[floridaguy]

14. Poll is okay, but this is off point, because . . .

since we will soon be the front-runner, we will be taking it from all sides. A hell of a lot of Americans supported Ronald Reagan. Some people want to make an argument that Wes Clark is not a true Democrat, because . . . Wes Clark is pro-choice, pro-environment, and anti-Bush. That's plenty for me, besides, what good is proving your a true Democrat right now, if you can't get elected.

Wes Clark will stand up for all his ideas and previous actions. He is a man of honor and integrity. Don't expect him to waffle like Dean whenever the wind blows, and don't buy into these Dean supporters who have now done exactly what Dean whined about last week - i.e., dirty politics.

We don't and won't need to make excuses and explain the actions of our candidate. That is wone reason he will win, and that is why he will be the next President.

[sandnsea]

15. Well what does Clark think??

That's all that matters. I'd really like to know, like I asked last night. I don't care that he voted for him, would just like to know what he thinks about some of the things that happened during the Reagan years.

Like, does he think ketchup is a vegetable?? (kidding, but there's other stuff I'd like to know)

[Name removed]

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[Crunchy Frog]

19. CC, I don't think

It is very classy or appropriate to insult Kerry supporters. Some people have very legitimate questions that should not simply be dismissed.

[Name removed]

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[Crunchy Frog]

35. Yes, I know it's a joke

It just that it's a very tasteless and stupid joke. It is the type of joke that alienates and insults people who could potentially end up as Clark supporters if their guy drops out.

Since you have been on this board I have not seen you say a single thing that makes Clark or his supporters look good, and frankly I'm beginning to wonder a little bit about where your loyalties really are.

Once more, you will not increase support for Clark by insulting supporters of other candidates.:grr:

[Name removed]

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[Crunchy Frog]

46. If your main concern is to

appeal to mainstream, swing, and conservative leaning voters, this is not the place to do it. The vast majority of us on this site are not mainstream swing voters. We are overwhelmingly liberal and progressive voters.

You might find that you could do much more good by going onto more mainstream or conservative leaning sites and advocating for Clark on those.

The only thing that I see you accomplishing here is to make Clark look bad to the sort of people who vote in Democratic primaries. Ergo, by posting the way you have on this board you are damaging my candidate and I take that very seriously.

[Name removed]

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[Crunchy Frog]

69. Bye bye

It's been really great to know you, and I hope you enjoyed your time here.:hi:

[sandnsea]

38. Not if it's a legitimate food group

That means more money for Kerry.

Or some other joke that I couldn't think of because I'm not really funny.

[Jerseycoa]

22. Terrible president

I don't expect to agree with Clark on every single point. He was in the military and I was not two decades ago. I'm satisfied Clark voted for Clinton and Gore, which brings us back a dozen years and is long enough for me. His actions and beliefs concerning affirmative action, domestic abuse, civil rights, human rights, reproductive freedom, and so on, throughout his career -- make him a democrat then and a Democrat now and my choice for President of the United States of America.

[Name removed]

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[Rowdyboy]

25. There is so much wrong here

and I have so MUCH I'd like to say
but I want to remain on DU for a long time so I'll just go away now.

I will say, as a Clark supporter, I do not in any way, shape or form agree with a single word of the preceding post. I'm basically stunned and at a total loss for words.

And I'll stand by my votes too: Carter, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, ABB

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[OhioStateProgressive]

51. you realize Reagan was a Republican?(nt)

[bicentennial_baby]

29. I'm with you, Rowdy

:wow:

[Rowdyboy]

49. Its okay Bi-Baby

He's gone bye-bye now-tombstoned! Thank God!

[David Zephyr]

59. And I'll Stand By Your Votes, Too.

Because those were my votes, too. Howdy to Rowdy.

:hi:

[sandnsea]

41. oh my word

Paul Volcker reversed the inflation, a Carter nomination. The military deficit was the only good thing about the GDP, which we paid off in the 90's under Clinton. And Carter created 9.9 million jobs to Reagan's 9.4 million. It's just there was so damn many boomers entering the job market at the same time. Alot of Reagan's jobs were also created through that massive military deficit. The Soviet Union was well on its way to collapse and if Reagan were a little more diplomatic, perhaps he wouldn't have armed all the people to defeat the Soviets, the same people who are turning those arms at us now. Reagan was a fucking idiot as a President, just like George Bush. We're paying for Reagan's ignorance now, god only knows what Bush's mess will cost us in the long run.

[Name removed]

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[OhioStateProgressive]

54. Reagan was a Nazi who got away with it b/c he smiled alot(nt)

[Rowdyboy]

57. FYI Clark Campaigner was a troll

who has since been tombstoned

[uslibertarian]

64. Try To Sound Educated In Public

I hear a lot of young people who have never been around the block or people who failed history using the term Nazi to describe other people today. Reagon was not a good president but he was not a Nazi.

A Nazi is someone who killed 6,000,000 people because of their religion.

Nazis conducted the most heinous documented and taped experiments on human beings and animals ever – you should do a little research.

Our country has had some bad presidents but none of them have been Nazis.

I’ll try to be your mentor today - Be smart and knowledgeable about what you say and write and your credibility will precede you.

[OhioStateProgressive]

67. assumptions abounding

I pretty much call Republicans Nazis as long as they call me a Commie.

I don't much care for the "young" label, I am not an old man by any definition, but I'm not a kid either.

I well remember Reagan





and not fondly

thanks for the concern

[OhioStateProgressive]

68. the more I read your reply the more offended I am

luckily I am going to hit "mute" on my arrogance gland and save you the time

[youngred]

76. smart and knowledgeable about you what you write

from someone who a few posts down uses Madonna's sexual history to bash a candidate for president...excuse me while I laugh.

While Reagan may not have been a Nazi, elements of his administration definitely used fascist/corporatist models for behaviour and action. National Socialism, Fascism and Corporatism are all linked in their style of government.

None have been Nazis? not in name but some of them shared some of the views of the Nazis.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

50. Reagan 'defeated the Soviet Union' - MYTH

Give Ronald Reagan Credit for Ending the Cold War? What Cold War?
The myth the Politicians Manufactured
by Robert Whealey, associate professor of history at Ohio University.

<snip>

The Reagan-Bush contribution to the end of the East-West diplomatic rivalry was relatively modest. They mostly observed with calmness the disintegration of the Soviet Union. Global capitalism now dominates the world, and democratic nation-states are in trouble. Elections and political parties can be bought. Class disparities are now greater than ever, and pollution and overpopulation threaten the world of the twenty-first century.
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/2605

Reagan's Record II - Did he win the Cold War?
By Michael Kinsley

<snip>

Even if Reagan didn't intend his military buildup to achieve victory, that was the happy result—wasn't it? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly the half-centurylong bipartisan policy of containment played a role. The effect of variations one way or another is debatable. The notion that Jimmy Carter left us weak and vulnerable is certainly exaggerated. Once you give up the idea that Reagan planned it all, the notion that his buildup (for which we're still paying) made the crucial difference becomes less than obvious.

Some former Soviet apparatchiks have testified that Reagan's policies were devastating. This is oddly persuasive to people who wouldn't have believed a word these guys said when they were following the party line of their previous masters. But it's amazing how credible you can become when you tell me what I want to hear.

Suppose events had played out closer to the way Reagan actually predicted. Suppose that, two decades later, communism's internal collapse was continuing on a long fuse, but meanwhile its military strength had continued to grow. And suppose we had responded with continued Reagan-style increases in defense spending. What would the Reagan hagiographers be saying then? Would they be saying, "Well, he did a lot of great things, but his defense policy doesn't seem to have worked"? No, they would be saying exactly what they're saying now: that history had proved him right.

Winning an argument you refuse to lose is a Pyrrhic victory. If no outcome short of outright defeat or nuclear annihilation would be accepted as evidence that Reagan's policy was a failure, no particular outcome is evidence that it was a success.

<snip>

http://slate.msn.com/id/100979/

[youngred]

55. no, no, no and dear god no

check your facts the myth of reagan isn't even close to true.

In actuality his was the MOST corrupt administration in history (well, up until this one anyway), he did NOT kill the Soviet Union, his economic policies created a tremendous deficit that will be nearly impossible to pay off, had the largest stock market crash since the great depression (stagflation was NOT Carter's fault it was the result of international politics), gave weapons money and WMDs not just to the Contras but Osama Bin Laden (that guy that Bush doesn't think about anymore) and Saddam Hussein, in addition to many many more...and that's not even counting his declaration of Bible year and other cheap pandering to the religious right.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

27. a bunch of Dean supporters saying "great president"

[SahaleArm]

40. Of course - it makes them feel better n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

28. I can't believe how many Clark supporters Love Reagan

or maybe I should say I can beleive it.

[Name removed]

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[Printer70]

34. Clark supporters are Reagan Democrats?

That's what seems to be the case from this poll, a substantial portion of them anyway. Is it possible another blow-dried demagogue from the Right will come along and swing their votes again?? I mean it's okay to be fooled then, but to still think he was "great"? That makes me concerned about the Clark movement.

[youngred]

56. I see ONE Clark supporter here

who atually posted to the thread anyway, who was supportive of Reagan.

The rest are apalled at this...methinks the poll doth lie

[uslibertarian]

66. Madonna Doesn't Count and if she did....

Madonna abandoned America and moved to London England calling it her home so her opinion about what is best for America shouldn't be considered.

But if you have to consider her opinion remember... she went to bed with Michael Jackson and Dennis Rodman before she said Clark had the character necessary to be President. She proved that she is a poor judge of character before her endorsement of Clark – her endorsement of his character should tell us a lot about Clark.

[youngred]

74. what has that to do with ANYTHING?

get your mindless clark bashing here!

Unless you weren't responding to me. In any case this level of idioctic posting has to be refuted so...

Madonna has nothing to do with this debate, and so what if she's slept with some interesting characters? She moved to London A) because she didn't like the politics exhibited in the US (and is trying to rectify that and B) to be with her husband Guy Ritchie.

Because she slept with two attention grabbing morons you judge her whole character judging ability? I'm sure we all have mistakes in judgement but bringing up who a singer has slept with to relate why a presidential candidate is a poor choice is beyond ridiculousness.

[Cheswick2.0]

61. if you add the top three categories

over 50 percent of Clark supporters think Regan is at least "okay".
Amazing, I think he was a horror story.

[youngred]

75. please

you can't believe this is actually a legit poll

[Crunchy Frog]

72. I hope that someone

posts this same exact poll for Dean supporters. Then we could get a really accurate picture of just how many of them are Reagan Democrats. I dare anyone to post such a poll.

Of course the poll might only demonstrate how pissed off many people here are at the behavior of some Dean supporters, but I will take the results as a true reflection of what they really think in their hearts but are afraid to admit to in public.

[Crunchy Frog]

37. Yes, I wonder just how many

Dean supporters voted in it for purposes of making Clark supporters look bad.

There seems to be precisely one Clark supporter (who I'm somewhat suspicious of) who claims to think Reagan was a great president.

[Name removed]

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[Cheswick2.0]

62. I don't think Reagan was ever the right man for the job

but then I was a democrat then too.

[Crunchy Frog]

71. You know what?

Someone could post this exact same poll for Dean supporters and it would probably come out with similar results. Not because Dean supporters love Reagan but because anyone who wants to make Dean supporters look bad can just hit whatever response they want to, with complete anonymity. If that happened would you be so quick with your "shocked but not really surprised" response? I sure as hell would.

[Donna Zen]

31. bottom alert

not playing

[Dookus]

32. I don't believe for one

minute that there are >30 Clark supporters here who think Reagan was a great president.

What a stupid poll. And good job, Clark-slammers! You've lived up to the level of honesty and openness I've come to expect from you and your candidate.

[styersc]

33. Dook- I was equally as perturbed but lets all be friends-

we've got a horrible president to unseat!!!!

[Dookus]

42. I'd be happy to be your friend....

it's the people who feel it's ok to lie to score a cheap point on an obscure internet forum that piss me off.

[curse10]

36. I doubt that 32 people on this entire board think Reagan was "great"

shame on ya'll trying to skew the results!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

63. I find that hard to believe as well n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

43. I voted terrible

I know you may find this hard to believe but I always thought that Reagan was a terrible president. Not as bad as W, but I hold him largely responsible for laying the groundwork for the mess that our country is in right now.

My very first vote was cast for Mondale, and I was happy to do it despite my dissapointment that Gary Hart didn't get the nomination.

I do give Reagan some credit for his role in ending the cold war, but it is not the standard right wing CW. I think he helped end the cold war by being willing to recognize that Gorbachev was the real deal, toning down the rhetoric, and showing a real willingness to work constructively with him to help smooth the transition out of communist totalitarianism. He took a tremendous amount of flack from the right wing of his own party for this, but stuck to his guns. I was very distressed when George I reversed these policies, and am convinced that his actions contributed to the problems and instabilities that we're seeing in that region today.

So, I am willing to give Reagan credit for the one thing that I think he did right, while continuing to believe that overall he was a terrible president.

If you think that makes me a Republican (which you probably already do despite anything I could say) then you are perfectly free to do so. I simply don't care anymore.

[styersc]

52. The Most Troubling Thing About This Thread And Others Like It----

is that it is premised a sort of snobbery. It's like saying there are some voters who are just not good enough to be in our club. If a voter liked this issue, or that personality, then that voter is not welcome to join us now in trying to get very important work done.

Wake up and grow up. We (whoever is the candidate) is not in the position to turn people away. We need the votes, the energy, the input and we desparately need to win this.

If you back a candidate because of issues, let's discuss issues (without the Limbaugh like name calling) and let's cut this inuendo and elitism, out.

[_NorCal_D_]

53. Terrible n/t

[texasmom]

60. Terrible!

I didn't vote for him, and I never understood his appeal. The only thing I could ever figure out was that those who thought he was doing a good job liked his "grandfathery charm." In recent years I've heard people say they felt inspired by him. Not me. I couldn't stand him.

However, it doesn't bother me at all that Clark voted for Reagan. It's a complete non-issue. A lot of people voted for Reagan and realized their mistake a few years later.

Btw, this poll is a joke. No one here thinks Reagan was a great president.

[Crunchy Frog]

70. The only one here

who thinks Reagan was a great president just got tombstoned.:evilgrin:

I still have my t-shirt from the Reagan era with a picture of Reagan next to a bottle of ketchup, asking which one is the vegetable.
:evilgrin:

[Crunchy Frog]

73. So, as nearly as I can tell

from this poll, approx. 6% of Clark supporters think Reagan was either a good or average president, 70% think he was either a poor or terrible president, one tombstoned disruptor thinks that he was a great president, and around 44 other respondents used the opportunity provided by this poll to smear Clark supporters as Republicans.

I think it is really sad that there are that many people on this board who are willing to resort to those kinds of tactics.

[Renew Deal]

77. Funny how bringing up Reagan is a honey pot

to lurkers. lol