Heads up, NH DU-ers!

[Padraig18]

A bounty is being offered for the first scanned, legible copy (back and front) of the alleged 'negative campaigning' flyer about General Clark!

Bring it on! :)

[Dookus]

1. Step one

in the Standard Dean Defense Initiative (SDDI)

1) Deny it happened
2) Admit it happened but it's somebody else's fault
3) Declare that they all do it, so it's no big deal

[Padraig18]

2. 4.) Ask for proof.

:)

[Dookus]

4. nah..

step 4 is "Clark voted for Republicans"

:)

[Padraig18]

6. He did, didn't he?

I didn't marry him-- you did, baggage and all. :)

[Dookus]

9. well...

Q: Rate Bush
A: I think he's doing a fine job on the war on terrorism

-Howard Dean, July 2002

[Padraig18]

21. Fair enough.

He said it, which is my point. You pointing it out doesn't make it an 'attack', or 'negative campaigning', Dookus. :)

[Clark4Prez]

8. Step 5 is to talk about the GOP fundraiser in 2001

Then in mock horror, say, "I am just not sure that I can support someone who does that." (Said in the same tone as if he killed a bus-load of blind one legged orphans.)

[Padraig18]

11. I can support him.

I'm just not going to account for overly-sensitive supporters. His record is his record, just like Bush's is, and I'm not 1/100th as nasty as KKKarl is going to be.

Think about it, take a deep breath, and put it in perspective. :)

[killbotfactory]

12. What was with that? Also, why did he praise Bush's resolve this past March

Didn't he think the way Bush went about the Iraq war was the wrong thing to do? Did he flip-flop once he realized the Iraq war wouldn't have an "impact on the diplomacy to come — effective power so clearly displayed always shocks and stuns. Many Gulf states will hustle to praise their liberation from a sense of insecurity they were previously loath even to express. Egypt and Saudi Arabia will move slightly but perceptibly towards Western standards of human rights."

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0917-14.htm

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. Padraig,

The Dean campaign has already admitted that THEY are GUILTY. Remember?

[Padraig18]

7. They didn't admit it was 'negative campaigning'.

That's what everyone's panties are in a twist about, as I recall.

[SahaleArm]

14. Yes it's positive campaigning...

at least in the world of Deanspeak.

[Padraig18]

15. Awww....

Why is the truth 'negative campaigning'? That's the one thing I see lots of dancing around, but never addressed head-on... :shrug:

[funky_bug]

16. But here's the thing

No one has actually produced the flyer, so until they do, and we all get to read a copy of it, THIS IS A MUTE POINT. Move on people... Clark people and Dean people. I don't care if AP carried it. Until we see it, we ain't talking 'bout shit.... not even living shit...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. So, why bring it up in the first place?

:shrug:

[Padraig18]

18. Wise words!

:hi:

[SahaleArm]

23. It's Moot not Mute - Just a pet peeve...

;)

[funky_bug]

26. LOL

I'm not even going to edit... just take my medicine and lick my wounds. I fired that off in a fury (no, not a furry)... I didn't even catch "mute point". What exactly would a "mute point" be? How would you verbalize a point without words... ah well, I digress.

[SahaleArm]

28. The would be the zipper the Dean campaign is putting over Howard..

:evilgrin:

[funky_bug]

33. funny sting

but not nice... not nice at all.

[KaraokeKarlton]

29. It must have been a Freudian Slip

The argument may be moot, but it should also be "mute"(silenced) because unless someone produces the flyer in question there is nothing to discuss or argue. :D

[funky_bug]

34. Defending a Clark Supporter

Let the love-fest begin!

Seriously... thanks for justifying my grammatical handicap. :smoke:

[Clark4VotingRights]

3. Really not a bad request. I prefer to know if news is real, or PR...

Either way I'd like to know.

Kick.

[killbotfactory]

10. Clark's people took them all and hid them.

It's much easier to hide them and bitch about it while exaggerating the content of the flyers. Politics as usual.

...

You do know it's very, very, very unfair and sleazy to point out Clark's past statements to people, right? Very, very, very unfair and sleazy.

[quaker bill]

13. It must be stopped

We can't allow the candidates to go around quoting each other like that! It is so negative and unbecomming.

[KittyWampus]

19. Dean Campaign Spokesman Matthew Gardner Confirmed It

"Howard Dean's campaign is circulating negative literature about Wes Clark, filled with inaccuracies and half-truths,"
the flier begins. "That's not leadership and that's not integrity, that's just politics as usual."

Dean campaign spokesman Matthew Gardner previously confirmed that Dean volunteers were at Clark events Tuesday
and Wednesday distributing information about the ret.- general.

.... Clark told reporters he was not surprised by the distribution of the negative literature.

"I guess that's what professional politicians do," Clark said, "I'm not a politician.... It's the first election I've ever run,
and I just want to communicate with the voters."
http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2003/december/1_8clark.shtml

[Padraig18]

20. Ahem.

They admitted to distributing the flyer--- NOT that it was 'negative.

Rather a crucial difference. :)

[killbotfactory]

22. It was a flyer for godsakes! What's next? Anthrax?

If the Dean campaign is capable of handing out flyers, I'll have none of it!

[Duder]

36. He also said...

...

However, New Hampshire press secretary for the Dean campaign, Matthew Gardner, said the Clark campaign has "a lot of gall" criticizing Dean when Elleithee and another Clark staff recently spent an hour at a restaurant in Merrimack making negative statements about Dean to the media.
...

Gardner said the Dean campaign does not engage in such Clark campaign tactics as dropping off literature critical of Dean at restaurants and not attaching its name to it.

[DancingBear]

24. Why does the word "parsing" come to mind

when reading this thread?

(paraphrasing) "Depends on what your definition of 'negative' is."

Good grief - has it come to that?

[Renew Deal]

25. There is a good chance you will see one soon.

I would be patient

[Dookus]

27. but

don't you know that if it doesn't appear on DU, it doesn't exist?

The "real" world is just an elaborate hoax dreamed up by... wait for it...

KARL ROVE

to distract us.

Don't buy into the myth of a real world outside of DU... it's just playing into Rove's hands.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. It won't matter

if it is "negative" because it will never be "sufficiently negative" for Dean supporters. We went through this shit with the Kucinich flyer. First it was. No, he didn't do that. Then it was, where's the proof? Then proof came in a scanned document. Then it was, well was this from "Dean for America?" Then it was, I don't believe it's from Dean for America. Then it was, where's the proof that it's from Dean for America? Then came the scanned "back" of the flyer showing it WAS indeed "Paid for by Dean for America." Then, it was, but it's true! Dean was the only MAJOR candidate to be against the war. THAT shit went on for 3 days. This flyer will be the same. I wouldn't bother with a scan because "facts" don't matter.

[killbotfactory]

41. Don't cry wolf

Don't cry about handing out flyers with Clark's own statements on it "dirty tricks" or "smear tactics". It makes Clark look foolish.

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. Who's crying wolf?

I just explained past behavior by the same people who are wanting THIS flyer to be scanned. It won't matter what the damn flyer says because some people cannot admit that Dean has ever done anything underhanded. This will be a repeat of the slanderous Kucinich flyer. 3 days of Dean supporters poo pooing it.

[KaraokeKarlton]

31. I'm sure the Clark campaign in NH has a scanner

If the flyer wasn't produced for online viewing right away, one of two things must be true. Either the flyer doesn't exist or the statements on it are TRUE and showing it to people would confirm that Clarks campaign is pitching a fit over nothing. :shrug:

[Padraig18]

35. Oh my!

Surely that couldn't be possible? *gasp* :P

[in_cog_ni_to]

38. Guess again.

The flyer was shown on TV. It exists. At least, in the REAL world, it exists. Not yours.

[meow mix]

40. yup, and just in case anyone missed it

heres a copy floating around clarkblogs... theres many sources now though.

http://chat.forclark.com/comments/2004/1/7/23747/58243/230#230

WESLEY CLARK: REAL DEMOCRAT?

Paid For by Dean For America
Produced In House, Volunteer Labor

[maddezmom]

32. all in good time

;)

[maxanne]

39. I hear the flier

is buried with the WMD's.

[windansea]

42. see post #40

enjoy!!