This new "Dean is a liar" campaign reminds me of 2000

[virtualobserver]

The "Gore is a liar" campaign in 2000 was so charming. Scouring all statements that a candidate has ever made, then trying to find some inconsistency is "so Karl Rove".

Watching Democrats join this attack of the frontrunner for the nomination is so lovely.

[Carl21014]

1. Why can't the media appy the same standard to Bush?

They could dedicate hours and hours to the lies he's told.

[virtualobserver]

2. If they had done that in 2000.........

Gore would have had 60% of the popular vote.

[bearfartinthewoods]

8. the difference is gore wasn't a certified liar like dean

[virtualobserver]

12. the situations are identical

This "contraversy" is about as meaningful as any of the attacks on Gore in 2000.

[bowens43]

13. Dean is no more a liar then Gore or anyone else.

But please , by all , means show us a link to the copy of the certification. I wasn't even aware there was such a thing.

LOL!

[Cheswick2.0]

15. prove it

waiting

[kerry-is-my-prez]

29. Who's "closest living relative in the armed services?'" Dean: my brother

http://www.steveverdon.com/archives/2003_12.html

Looks like Dean got caught trying to pass a civilian family member off as a member of the Armed Services. In responding to a question about who was "his closest living relative in the armed services is....?" Dean responded that his brother is listed as MIA/POW in Laos.

The only problem is that Charlie Dean was never in the military and the newspaper accounts of his disappearance in Laos refer to him as a tourist.

[JaneQPublic]

36. He responded that his brother was listed as POW/MIA, which is true.

The DoD did designate Charlie Dean as a POW/MIA, although probably only a tourist there.

Dean's point, which you obviously missed, is that although he has no living relatives in the armed services, his brother suffered capture, imprisonment, torture, and death -- the worst experiences an actual service member can endure.

Nice link, by the way. It's not the actual interview of Dean making that statement, but rather a blog quoting another blog paraphrasing Dean. It would be nice to see Dean's actual comment in context, considering the hatchet jobs done on his statements lately.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

40. He was a tourist. How can you be MIA/POW when you're a tourist....

He said his brother was a member of the armed forces....

[SahaleArm]

43. He was classified a missing civilian.

It's amazing how many people confuse civilian missing/pow's with armed service MIA/POW's. The classification makes a clear distinction, he was a civilian.

[SahaleArm]

41. A civilian regardless of how they died is not in the armed forces.

Dean should have left it blank.

Dean's point, which you obviously missed, is that although he has no living relatives in the armed services, his brother suffered capture, imprisonment, torture, and death -- the worst experiences an actual service member can endure.

Most of this is speculation, like being in the CIA.

[bearfartinthewoods]

71. plus we don't even know if he was actually a prisoner or

the manner of his death? snakebite? tiger attack? malaria? dysentary?

[Renew Deal]

52. Dean: I am the only candidate against the war.

Lie

[JaneQPublic]

56. He said "major" candidate

At 2 percent in the polls, Dennis isn't so much "major."

[blm]

74. He was FOR the same use of force

to be used in B-L that was in the IWR.

Dean was NOT antiwar as he labeled himself, and nor were the others prowar as labeled.

[Sean Reynolds]

77. Lie?

Hardly. EVERY candidate says the I'm the only candidate here that ________. I was listening to a town hall last night and Gephardt said he was the only candidate with a health care plan that works. Should we call him a liar too? What about when Kucinich at the NPR debate said he was the only candidate that wanted the UN in and the US out? Last I checked Sharpton wanted the same thing. Would you say Kucinich was a liar? When Kerry says he is the only candidate that has a fair tax plan, is he lying? No. Of course not because it's just politics.

[JNelson6563]

32. proof?

Anything besides your opinion? Now's a good opportunity to achieve some credibilty, hope you'll run with that....

Julie

[markus]

37. Examples would be useful

Do we only want candidates who emerged from the womb as fully formed Democratic candidates?

Inconsistencies and lies are not the same thing. The intent involved (or lack thereof) is entirely different.

[Ramsey]

80. You'll no doubt be sorely disappointed...

When the candidate of your choice also cannot live up to the lofty standard of consistency and perfection in their every utterance for time immemorial you have set down.

[Tweed]

82. This was repeated for some reason

Check out the post below.

[Tweed]

83. Yeah, it's pretty sad

I think the reason they don't do it is because it is too easy. I mean after awhile it just becomes expected. I think that when Bush lies, "Most people think, oh isn't that the thing that he does?" Such a sad state our country is in.

[Cheswick2.0]

3. same tactics same players

I guess the aol message boards got boring.

[bearfartinthewoods]

16. oh i get it now! .........this is the post-gaffe-hug thread

where we all hug and say in unison:
i'm ok
we're ok
dean's ok
and everyone who doesn't love dean is a poopyhead.

[Cheswick2.0]

19. I wish I had an idea of what you were talking about

:shrug:

Do you think I want you to hug me?

[papau]

4. It is a reason that I have stopped listening to Kerry, Gep and Lieberman

Jump on to Roves lap and say so and so is a liar

damn fools

[REP]

5. I'm Waiting for "Dean is an Angry Liar"

That won't work, either, but it does nicely combine two meaningless ideas.

I don't know in real life a single Dan supporter who gets knicker-twist from Dean's supposed lies. What I do know is he has never wavered on the issues I find most important.

[bearfartinthewoods]

9. lie to me....i promise i'll believe

[REP]

17. I Really Enjoy Your Posts and Think You're Swell

[bearfartinthewoods]

24. hee hee

good one!

[sventvkg]

6. Bush is the Damn liar!!! Why doesn't Dean just come out and say that?

Counter their crap with fact after fact after fact that exposes Bush for the Lying Chimp that he is.......Dems better start using Rovian Techniques aimed right back at Rove, if they hope to have a chance...There are no rules in WAR....The ROVE knows it...DEAN Needs to give them a dose of their on medicine and make it actually true statements..

[SahaleArm]

7. LOL - The self-pity card followed by calling everyone else a Repug?

Dean supporters are nothing if not consistent.

[virtualobserver]

14. If you agree with these tactics....

Go for it.

[Cheswick2.0]

18. LOL the Card card

what is it with you guys and accusing someone of playing a "card"? IS that your last refuge?

[SahaleArm]

20. Stop it you're killing me...

Are you going to call me a Republican next? LOL

[Cheswick2.0]

26. I asked a simple question

what does that have to do with being republican?

[SahaleArm]

31. Thread topic paints anyone who questions Dean's veracity a Republican n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

44. no it doesn't n/t

[JaneQPublic]

10. Actually it's "Gaffes" they accuse Dean of, not so much lies

It wasn't a lie when he said the Iowa caucus system was dominated by special interests. Hell every American political system is.

It wasn't a lie when Dean said Gore was not quick on his feet. Lord knows Gore took his time responding to all those inaccurate charges against him.

It wasn't a lie when Dean said he wanted to be the candidate of southerners with a rebel flag on their truck. Rather, it politically awkward and inexpedient. Hell, that line got him a standing ovation at the DNC Winter Meeting last February, black audience members and Terry McAuliffe included!

Look at almost any Dean "flap," and the issue isn't that he was untruthful, but un-PC and un-CW.

His crime is that he's not sticking to the same politically safe, meaningless pablum that most other candidates spew.

[dajabr]

11. The Dean Campaign is going to the mattresses

Full assault on the WHORE Media...

Luca Trippi claims his first victim - Paula Zahn:

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/003053.html

[SahaleArm]

21. Mattresses? Is the campaign going to sleep? n/t

[REP]

22. Wrestling Term

I am assuming this was an honest misinterpretation.

[SahaleArm]

23. Sarcasm - Usually stated 'going to the mat' n/t

[dajabr]

25. Unlees you're watching The Godfather

[SahaleArm]

28. Sh*t you got me...

:evilgrin:

[REP]

30. Ah, A Spelling Flame

I stand corrected and apologize for the misunderstanding.

[bitchkitty]

47. Actually, it doesn't -

it means when the gangsters are fighting among themselves, they hole up in a temporary place, away from their homes. I guess they throw mattresses on the floor for temporary beds - I think I got that from the Godfather, could be wrong.

[Hep]

27. Exactly

People here are clowning like the press did in 2000, and using press clowns like Peggy Noonan to support their assertions.

If we didn't learn anything from 2000, we're going to repeat it.

[chimpymustgo]

33. It's a slander to Gore to compare him to Dean's lying.

That's the stunner, folks - the media aren't making ANYTHING up with Dean. He's not being mis-quoted, mis-interpreted.

THESE ARE HIS OWN WORDS.

Yes, Bush lies. But why should we put up our own flip-side version of George Walker Bush.

Howard Brush Dean III.

Dean lies.

[virtualobserver]

35. that must be why Gore endorsed him and is campaigning for him

if you feel good about this line of attack, more power to you.

They used Gore's words as well, and the issues were of the same incredibly minor significance.

[JaneQPublic]

42. Dean is being hammered not for lying but telling the truth.

It wasn't a lie that the caucus system is dominated by special interests. It is.

It wasn't a lie that Al Gore is sometimes slow on his feet. He is.

It wasn't a lie that we're no safer since the capture of Saddam. We aren't.

It wasn't a lie that he wants to be candidate of southerns with rebel flags on their trucks. Politically awkward, yes. Lie, no.

It wasn't a lie when he said we should take a more even-handed approach to the Middle East. A departure from 60 years of failed policy, yes. Lie, no.

It wasn't a lie when he said he is the only major candidate to oppose the war. At 2 percent in the polls, Dennis isn't "major."

Need I go on?

[Hep]

50. There you go folks

Another soul lost to the ghost of elections past.

They talk about lies but they don't demonstrate them. Nary a legitimate argument between them.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

34. Dean: "I've never favored Social Security retirement at the age of 70"

Whoops! Maybe I did.....

http://slate.msn.com/id/2086804/

"Dennis Kucinich: y good friend, Mr. Dean, has said that he'd move the retirement age to 68. One time he talked about moving it to 70.

-snip-

"I'm not going to go back and ask you to change the rules, but I think I'll take 20 seconds just to tell everybody that I have never favored Social Security retirement at the age of 70, nor do I favor one of 68."


—AFL-CIO Democratic presidential candidate forum, Aug. 5, 2003

"Sen. Bob Packwood (R-Ore.): I've said many times that I think we should raise the retirement age about the year 2015—raise it by that time to about age 70.

<…>

"Howard Dean: I am very pleased to hear Bob Packwood because I absolutely agree we need to reduce the—I mean, to increase the retirement age. There will be cuts and losses of some benefits, but I believe that Sen. Packwood is on exactly the right track."

—CNN's Crossfire, Feb. 28, 1995

"The way to balance the budget, Dean said, is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut almost everything else. 'It would be tough but we could do it,' he said."

—News story on a breakfast meeting Dean held with reporters by Miles Benson, Newhouse News Service, March 3, 1995

[chimpymustgo]

39. DU deserves a thread chronicling Dean's lies. With links.

Would that be flamebait? It shouldn't. Because we've GOT to look at this now, rather than when it's too late.

Medicare, his military service, his brother's military service, Nafta, Iowa Caucuses.

The lies, the flip flops. You can bet Karl Rove is keeping a detailed list. With links. And video.

[JaneQPublic]

45. And he corrected himself a couple of days after he made that comment.

You're being dishonest by omitting that fact.

[cryofan]

64. PLease tell us about how he corrected himself!

Do tell....

[cryofan]

63. Excellent! This needs to have its own thread!

I have updated my www.mylinuxisp.com/~cryofan/dean.html page with this information. Let's see them try to rebut this!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

38. Dean" I never said the ends don't justify the needs (Re; Uday and Qusay)

whoops! Guess I did.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70B14FF3B5B0C708DDDA90994DB404482

[kerry-is-my-prez]

46. Dean: I never said Bush was forewarned about 911. Whoops! Guess I did...

http://slate.msn.com//id/2092515/

[virtualobserver]

53. is Gore really your President? n/t

I'm curious.

Because your President endorsed Howard Dean (because he is a liar?)

[kerry-is-my-prez]

58. Yep. He's just politically expedient. He needs Dean supporters for 2008

n/t

[virtualobserver]

61. boy, what a cynical guy Gore must be.....

in your estimation.


Jeez!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

62. He's a poltician... playing poltics. Just like Dean is. I'm not naive.

n/t

[bitchkitty]

57. Oh, come on.

You're being just as bad as those media whores who repeated that Gore claimed that he invented the Internet, when he said no such thing. This is what Dean said on the Rehm show:

The most interesting theory that I've heard so far, which is nothing more than a theory, I can't—think it can't be proved, is that he was warned ahead of time by the Saudis. Now, who knows what the real situation is, but the trouble is that by suppressing that kind of information, you lead to those kinds of theories, whether they have any truth to them or not, and then eventually they get repeated as fact.

Do you know what theory means? Shall I post the definition? I don't think you're interested in the truth, you're only interested in spreading half-truths, remarks taken out of context, all the latest talking points. It's sickening.

[dogman]

48. Yes , inconsistency is not actually lying.

Saying your civilian brother was in the military is however. Imagine what Rove is going to do with that.

[virtualobserver]

55. or what Rove will do with Clark's statement on IWR

one day he would probably have voted for it.....the next day he never would have.

You don't think that Rove would have a field day with that?

Every one has inconsistent statements in politics, and no one is perfect.

[dogman]

59. Clark has written over 250,000 words

If you would bother to read some of them you would find consistency. He stated he would have voted for a resolution that would have required a return to congress with proof that the war was justified. The resolution was to be used as a bargaining chip. If Rove had anything he would put it out now since he is a self-proclaimed Dean supporter.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

60. That's ONE thing. Dean has hundreds of these mistruths.

All candidates will have a "gotcha" but Dean just has waaaay too many.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

49. "I never said Saddam was a danger to the United States. Ever" Whoops!

I guess I did.....


www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6147-2003Dec16.html

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

65. Link and "statement" make no sense.

:wtf:

[Renew Deal]

51. The problem is

if it is so easy for Dems to do it, Dean is toast. That's one of the things that make Dean a bad nominee.

[virtualobserver]

54. It is always easy

to blow supposed inconsistencies out of proportion.

But it won't work.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

66. What bothers me more is his "hypocracy" and lack of integrity

He berates other people for being "corporate whores" and "bush-lite" when he is truly the worst out of all of the candididates.

[Hep]

67. Truly the worst

One whole sentence. No actual claims, no evidence, not even a criterion for being the worst. Just the claim. The old stick and move. And this is what passes for meaningful discourse at DU.

[poskonig]

68. This is called "Gore-ing" a candidate.

That the person who believes Gore is the president doesn't pick up on this is a little suspicious.

[blm]

75. Dean "Gored" Kerry with the help of the media.

He completely labeled Kerry as a corrupt Washington insider and "Bushlite"....knowing full well that he was far to Kerry's right on most issues.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

69. "ONLY DEAN OPPOSED THE WAR FROM THE START"

or "All my supporters could do ... before they supported the war."

Oh, I don't have the full quote of that, but he NEVER used the word "major". Only supporters who insisted on describing what he really meant used the word 'major'.

There are two. The point that these 'lies' are also being used for ADVANTAGE in the race is the worst part of it. No Dean is not a crazy lying fool, but he is a candidate for PRESIDENT of the United States. Just because Dubya is so bad, are we to lower our standards on an issue like this?

TWL

[chimpymustgo]

72. And, he's the ONLY one talking about race to white people.

I'm telling you, this goes beyond pandering and exaggerating.

[sandnsea]

70. Reality's a bitch

Dean may not be an out and out liar, but neither are the people who are saying he's made way way too many outrageous statements and flip-flops. He can't be our nominee, he just can't.

[Sean Reynolds]

78. Well he just will be our nominee.

[JVS]

73. Yup

[isbister]

76. I realized Dean was a misleader....

....over a year ago. It's not new to me.

[oasis]

79. Dean causes crediblity problems for himself. Why did he even bring up the

"Saudi warned Bush about 9/11" conspiracy theory? It just made him look bad.

[FubarFly]

81. Bush is a lair!

And he's a dirty, warmongering, jackass, phychonimrod to boot.

Relatively speaking, Dean should be canonized for his integrity.

Pointing out media hypocrisy will be a job I will relish in this upcoming year.