What effect will O'Neil's Iraq revelations have on the candidates

[eileen from OH]

who voted for the IWR, do you think?

I mean if Bush was planning this as far back as O'Neil indicates and it gets traction in the media (not holding breath here) then some shit could hit the fan. Will some of that stick to the Dem candidates who voted for the resolution? Which one(s)? What will be their response(s)? What should be their response(s)? Will this boost the chances of those who were anti-Iraq War?

I dunno, myself, - just interested in your take on it.

eileen from OH

[cthrumatrix]

1. How cannot it not help Dean and Clark....the others like Gep said he had

access to experts...last time I looked..the experts said there was no evidence.

So those against the war look like "they were right".

[joeybee12]

2. I ain't holding my breath--while O'Neill gives credence and some more

weight to this, the Dems prettyy much had to have known this all along. The leadership is just too wimpy--just look at the way Kerry and Dicky and Holy Joe attacked Dean for saying the truth--we aren't safer with saddam gone. They'll continue to be Dumbo's enablers.

[TexasSissy]

3. I was shocked when our Congress voted for that IWR, but....

I do think it's possible that it's true what Kerry and Edwards say, that they were duped by the Administration in a way. They put their trust in the administration, then found out later they had been mislead.

This fits with someone from the govt I saw on TV way back when. Someone was questioning whether we should pre-emptively bomb Iraq, and the govt mouthpiece finally said that at some point, we just have to trust the Prez and the admin. Or maybe it was a Repub congressperson?

I thought at the time, "That's the problem. I don't trust this President." But I'm willing to cut some slack to the congress people who may have trusted him. This was before we knew all that we know now. So I'm guessing that there are others out there who also feel this way.

It doesn't forgive the vote, but I don't feel as strongly about it now as I once did. I hope they've learned their lesson. But let's not forget that many, if not the majority, of people in the country were in favor of the IWR, if what I've heard in the media is correct. Go figure.

[readmylips]

11. I'd like to see all democrat senators...

together in a campaign, stating how boosh duped and misled them...That would be great and I would stop calling them cowards.

[xultar]

4. It proves CLARK was right when he said they had the plans a long time ago

Rememember guys? It proves that when Clark said a guy at the pentagon told him that they were going into Iraq a day after 9/11 and that they had it in the works for a while. Clark was telling the truth.

[Leilani]

12. Right you are

And Clark was tagged as nutty by some in the media, but he knew what was going on.

Recently he said that Bush & Co had plans for invading 7-8 countries, & again he was mocked. But that plan is exactly what PNAC wants.
We are bogged down in Iraq, but the neocons wanted us in Syria already, but Bush knows he doesn't have the troops & it's an election year.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

20. Bush mentioned it in one of the debates!

I remember pretty clearly in what I believe was the second debate with Gore that Bush said he would "take Saddam out" or something to that effect. When they started gearing up for the war I was astonished that nobody seemed to remember that Bush had talked about this, on national TV, a full year behind 9-11.

People in this country have very short memories and no attention span.

[loyalsister]

25. I remember that too!

I've also had the same feeling. I got a sense then that he was a war monger. I have never had such frustration as when talking to Democrats who have forgotten that debate and gave * the benefit of the doubt over Iraq.

[patricia92243]

5. Dean's "lies" should be shown as insignificant to Bush LIES

How would like to be the parent, child, or spouse of a soldier who was killed for absolutely nothing because of these lies. This fact needs to be hammered home over and over. It might not be delicate to "use dead soldiers" for political purposes (that's what the pubs will say). But the enormity of the results of these lies is going to have to be put in stark terms if it is to make any impression.

[MoonAndSun]

6. I would like all the Congresspeople and Senators who voted for

the IWR to come out and say "We were lied to, I am sorry that I fell for the lies and voted for this resolution."

That is what I would like to see happen.

[lcordero]

9. I'm not as forgiving

It has costed us almost 500 lives.
Almost 9,000 wounded.
It has costed the Iraqis probably tens of thousands of lives.
This war put off prosperity in the United States permanently.

[Renew Deal]

7. It proves Clark was right all along.

Now he can throw it back in Fox's/others in the media's face.

[cthrumatrix]

8. "we" have candidates that are standing up for truth and they have a

year to "expose bush" through O'Neill....this is what is important!

[UnityDem]

10. Hope this story has legs

CBS seems to be the only media outlet that will take on BushCo.
O'Neill will be pilloried by Rove or simply ignored if no other media picks up on this.
This is when our party leaders need to be heard.
Pelosi, Daschele, MacAuliffe, Hillary, Kennedy and others should be shouting about this from the mountain tops.
If only the 9 candidates do, it won't carry as much weight.
Bushco lied, thousands died - does America care???

[cthrumatrix]

13. keep it kicked...tell your fiends...call congress/senate

[sandnsea]

14. Regime change was policy in 1998

It is true that it has been the opinion of almost every expert in the world that Saddam was dangerous and had weapons and would make more in a short time if sanctions were lifted. That is why our Democratic candidates voted, just like they said. Because only the threat of force would get inspectors back in Iraq.

That does not mean they knew about Bush's war plans or supported any unilateral war. This new info only hurts Bush, unless Clark and Dean use it against the other candidates instead of Bush. Which is what Dean has chosen to do all year and is the original reason I chose not to vote for him.

Saddam was a threat, created havoc in the region, contributed to and assisted terrorist groups, and wanted to kill Americans. I wish people would stop thinking he was some kind of sweetsie-pie hero of the people. Doing something about him was right. What Bush chose to do and the lies he told in order to do it was wrong.

[quaker bill]

17. Wrong, absolutely wrong.

Saddam was no threat. He had no weapons. His ambitions in this regard were entirely contained. Evidence is that no weapons or programs to create them existed after 1994 or 1995. Based on the evidence in hand now, the justification for 'desert fox' in 1998 is highly suspect.

There is no evidence of a connection to Al-queda. None. We supported most of the 'havoc' Saddam created in the neighborhood. Our ambassador even assured Saddam that his 'border dispute' with Kuwait was 'none of our business' only days before the invasion. When he gassed the Kurds, our response was to improve relations and sell him more weapons.

Doing 'something' about Saddam might have been right, but war was never the 'right' or even legal thing to do.

Plenty of our leaders saw through the Bush* lies and fought like hell to prevent this from happening. The word was out on this, if you were listening. Some were not listening. "don't confuse me with the facts, we have a war to plan here"

[sandnsea]

24. Contain a non-threat

Why don't people see how contradictory that statement is.

Dean, himself, said Saddam was a threat. Like I said, I wish people would quit pretending Saddam was a Middle Eastern sugar 'n spice hero. He wasn't and we needed to get inspectors into the country in a realistic way. Every single person in the world said so, including Clark and Dean.

Enough of this bullshit already. Bush lied and started an illegal war and I'm sick and tired of Democratic politics letting him get away with it.

[quaker bill]

15. Once again, Dean was dead right, So was Clark but only in part.

Remember O'Neil is not just talking IWR here. The IWR stuff is huge, no doubt. However, he is also talking fiscal policy and the 44 Trillion dollar hole that the "tax cut and spend" policy has eaten into our long term budget.

Both Clark and Dean were exactly right on IWR. Both will further profit from this revelation.

Dean has been more on target all along on fiscal policy. Clark's plan which is heavy on more tax cuts is formulated to be 'revenue neutral' by balancing the cuts with tax increases on the rich. His plan does little to address the long term structural deficit.

Dean's plan stops the bleeding a good bit faster although most people have to sacrifice more to get it done. Dean has understood that in the long haul all of the social gains we have made will be sacrificed if the structural deficit is not cured. Now, while the baby boomers are still making a good living, is the only time to do it.

Soon, we will begin to retire. Once that happens, the only option left will be severe cuts in services. This is because the real number of earners will soon fall and the size of the deficit will increase to the extent that raising taxes sufficiently to cover the deficit will stall the economy. There will be no option in this scenario but to cut services at this point.

The neo-con 'starve the beast' plan is in place. It will just happen on its own if we do not act now to undo it. This is the trap, and Dean is the only one that sees it clearly and is prepared to act on it.

While the IWR revelations are very important, we need to pay attention to the whole story here.

[BeyondGeography]

16. Tax plans have nothing to do with this thread

And, if you want a candidate with the credibility to hold Bush accountable for his foreign policy misadventures, I'm afraid the ex-Governor of Vermont is not our man.

[quaker bill]

18. The revelations are about more than IWR

Like it or not. If we want a candidate to fix this mess, it will take alot more than someone 'strong on defense' to get it done.

[quaker bill]

21. Also, I understood this to be an open forum.

Please excuse the free exchange of ideas.

[BeyondGeography]

22. Nothing against freedom

You were just trying to get a dig in at Clark on taxes when everyone else was discussing the Iraq war.

Call me back when Dean has a tax plan.

[hilzoy]

23. No.

The tax plan Clark announced last Monday is revenue-neutral. However, he had previously announced a plan to reduce the deficit, including rolling back the Bush tax cuts on people making over $200,000/year, along with other measures. ( http://clark04.com/speeches/006/ ) What he announced on Monday is in addition to this earlier plan.

[killbotfactory]

19. All you had to do was read the policy papers of PNAC

Who've been pushing for an invasion since the mid-90's, and then look at the people surrounding Bush.

They exploited one of the greatest American tragedies and baffled the public with bullshit to start their idiotic war. They should be tarred and feathered when they get kicked out of the white house.