Which Presidential Candidate(s) voted for the Expanded Patriot Act???

[absyntheNsugar]

The Expanded Patriot Act (HR 2417) was passed in secret, by voice vote in congress. This may be old news but we need to know, from those presidential candidates serving in congress (Kucinich, Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, Lieberman) who voted for this?

Did any of them? And why did no one raise a stink? This is the return of the Total Information Awareness Act...yep where all credit card data is sent to Ashcroft. I'm not sure if it included the revoking US citizenship without having to provide evidence - but either way this is one step closer to Fascism.

Any candidate who voted yes should be removed from ANY consideration.

[twilight]

1. Dennis Kucinich did NOT vote for this!

The others ... not certain but I believe they ALL did!

[rucky]

5. If this is true, then

my list of candidates I support gets really short.

[cindyw]

6. Nice rumor mongering.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

43. Rumormongering=truth.

Hate to break it to ya.

[cindyw]

56. Did you hear that Dean was a secret board member of Enron's Vermont

chapter?

[Scott Lee]

58. Yes, that was after he retired from The Illuminati

goooooooz fah bahhhhh.......goooooooooz fah bah......

[cindyw]

62. Isn't ignoring bliss! Since I don't know what you said, all I can say is,

rumormongering=truth

[absyntheNsugar]

8. I'm not jumping to conclusions....

since this is REALLY serious - I don't want to taint anyone's record based on suspicion - that's a Republican tactic.

But we need to ask this - We need to pound on the doors of the candidates and make them answer. Also, we need to know why no one has made a stink about a 'secret vote' over something this serious.

That in itself, is a strike against them. Voting for this fascist legistlation is an automatic disqualification for ANY candidate.

[mourningdove92]

2. I also want to know the answer to that question.

We were blindsided while the media was playing, replaying, and playing again the news about Saddams capture. Where can we go to find out?
:wtf:

[cindyw]

3. Show proof that this even happened.

n/t

[absyntheNsugar]

9. To cannibalize another post (sorry snoochie)

Whitehouse Statement on HR 2417 (December 13, 2003)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/12/20031213-3.html

HR 2417 was cleared by the Congress on November 21, 2003
http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=4862&sequence=0v

Comments on HR 2417 :
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/h112203.html

[IndianaGreen]

12. I can't find this in THOMAS

Where is the Senate companion to this bill?

The text of H.R. 2417 has not yet been received from GPO

Bills are generally sent to the Library of Congress from the Government Printing Office a day or two after they are introduced on the floor of the House or Senate. Delays can occur when there are a large number of bills to prepare or when a very large bill has to be printed.

[snoochie]

15. Link to thomas.loc.gov info

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:HR02417:@@@S

[SadEagle]

25. So they attached this stuff to a budget bill?

That makes things trickier, since it makes it much harder to block than a separate law..

[snoochie]

13. No apology necessary

This needs to be duped and duped and duped until people catch on... I missed it for a week...

I really would like to know which, if any, candidates voted for this nightmare.

[IndianaGreen]

23. Okay, I found it! It is now Public Law No: 108-177.

Passed by voice vote! COWARDS!

78. H.R.2417 : To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2004 for intelligence and intelligence-related activities of the United States Government, the Community Management Account, and the Central Intelligence Agency Retirement and Disability System, and for other purposes.

Sponsor: Rep Goss, Porter J. (FL-14) (introduced 6/11/2003) Cosponsors: (none)
Committees: House Intelligence (Permanent Select)
Latest Major Action: 12/13/2003 Became Public Law No: 108-177.

Here are some other provisions:


H.R.2417
Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



SEC. 316. IMPROVEMENT OF INFORMATION SHARING AMONG FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS.

(a) TRAINING PROGRAM FOR STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS- Section 892(c) of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (Public Law 107-296; 6 U.S.C. 482) is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

`(3)(A) The Secretary shall establish a program to provide appropriate training to officials described in subparagraph (B) in order to assist such officials in--

`(i) identifying sources of potential terrorist threats through such methods as the Secretary determines appropriate;

`(ii) reporting information relating to such potential terrorist threats to the appropriate Federal agencies in the appropriate form and manner;

`(iii) assuring that all reported information is systematically submitted to and passed on by the Department for use by appropriate Federal agencies; and

`(iv) understanding the mission and roles of the intelligence community to promote more effective information sharing among Federal, State, and local officials and representatives of the private sector to prevent terrorist attacks against the United States.

`(B) The officials referred to in subparagraph (A) are officials of State and local government agencies and representatives of private sector entities with responsibilities relating to the oversight and management of first responders, counterterrorism activities, or critical infrastructure.

`(C) The Secretary shall consult with the Attorney General to ensure that the training program established in subparagraph (A) does not duplicate the training program established in section 908 of the USA PATRIOT Act (Public Law 107-56; 28 U.S.C. 509 note).

`(D) The Secretary shall carry out this paragraph in consultation with the Director of Central Intelligence and the Attorney General.'.

(b) REPORT- Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall submit to Congress a report that describes the Secretary's plan for implementing section 892 of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 and includes an estimated date of completion of the implementation.



This is even more disturbing, we need some research on it:


SEC. 313. MODIFICATION OF SUNSET OF APPLICATION OF SANCTIONS LAWS TO INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES.

(a) MODIFICATION- Section 905 of the National Security Act of 1947 (50 U.S.C. 441d) is repealed.

(b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The table of contents for that Act is amended by striking the item relating to section 905.

[diamondsoul]

17. And now that the proof is offered-

you have nothing to say at all?

Mmm-hmmm.

[cindyw]

59. Have you heard that people have lives outside of here. Been gone all day.

I don't think this proves anything. I have to read it to understand it. I would like to see some profession interpretation of what this and how it can be applied.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

46. Only Russ Feingold opposed.

Sorry.

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. I would assume that any candidate would vote for such a popular measure

Most voters, both Democrat and Republican, support escalating restrictions on just about everything, suppression of dissent, and stripping of civil liberties and individual privacy.

People want their behavior, their speech, even their thoughts dictated to them. I don't know why, but it is becoming increasingly popular.

[diamondsoul]

16. You would assume wrong on two counts-

One that it's "popular" among the average citizen, and two that "any candidate would vote for" it.

It's not at all "popular" with me and my candidate would not vote for it, in fact DID NOT vote for it.

[DuctapeFatwa]

28. The average citizen is not a member of the voting class

Voters in the US are generally the top 25% income tier.

Candidates who wish to raise money cannot afford to stray too far from the essence of bush regime policies, although it is important that they provide sufficient cosmetic changes and skillful rewording to maintain the appearance of "choice."

Ms. Moseley-Braun is among those candidates who have not raised a great deal of money, and there is rightly or wrongly, a perception that she, like a few others, could not be counted on to put corporate interests above those of the underclass.

[snoochie]

18. A reasonable assumption, yet...

There is one candidate who has a 'policy' of insisting on reading a bill before he signs it. So I'm willing to go out on a limb and say I can just about guarantee that at least that candidate did not.

:)

[DuctapeFatwa]

31. That candidate is on record as saying lives are more important than money

I am surprised that he is not sharing a cell with Mr. Padilla.

[enough]

7. For good links on this very important topic

See snoochie's current thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=945069

[Rose Siding]

10. Lieberman, Edwards, Kerry gave tacit approval

I don't know just what they can do to prevent a voice vote, but both sides must surely have been able to have objections.

This crap legislation did more than just restore the TIA program:


WASHINGTON -- President Bush signed legislation making it easier for FBI agents investigating terrorism to demand financial records from casinos, car dealerships and other businesses.

The changes were included in a bill authorizing 2004 intelligence programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. That would be slightly more than Bush had requested.
snip>

* requires the CIA director to prepare a report as soon as possible on what intelligence agencies have learned from their experiences in Iraq. An internal review has been under way. Both the House and Senate intelligence committees have been conducting their own inquiries on prewar intelligence.

* creates a new intelligence office in the Treasury Department to improve coordination with intelligence agencies on fighting terrorist financing.

* creates pilot programs to examine whether analysts from one agency should have access to raw data from another and to improve information sharing with state and local governments.

* authorizes agencies to continue research on computerized terrorism surveillance projects formerly operated by the Defense Department. Those projects were widely criticized on civil liberties grounds, prompting Congress to remove them from the Pentagon.

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-bush-intelligence-bill,0,7800436.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

[absyntheNsugar]

14. Not to doubt you...but please provide a link

Like I said earlier, this is serious. And I don't want a candidate's record besmirched without them deserving it.

For me (and probably most of DU) this will be a deal breaker for any candidate. Even more so than the IWR.

[Rose Siding]

22. The voice vote is frequently used...

for quickie stuff but also when the Senators don't want a roll call vote to be used against them. The problem is that you don't get a record of who voted how, so the constituents don't really have the opportunity to hold the pols accountable.

It's the first voting method listed at this link to Senate voting rules. Any Senator may speak up and request that a roll call vote be taken instead (that's how it reads to me)

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/98-227.pdf

[diamondsoul]

11. Kucinich IS raising a stink-

Except he does it in his own way, by fighting through the system. Kucinich along with other House members introduced the Benjamin Franklin True Patriot Act which will surely be stuck in committee until after Bushco is ousted. He doesn't play to media attention, he works for the people, period.

[absyntheNsugar]

19. Vote results ***CORRECTION****

http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2003&rollnumber=333

Sincere Apologies for my first post -


Kucinich was one of the 163 who voted against.

Gephardt did not vote.

Let it be known.

--- YEAS 264 ---
Aderholt Gerlach Nunes
Akin Gibbons Nussle
Alexander Gilchrest Ortiz
Andrews Gillmor Osborne
Bachus Gingrey Ose
Baker Goode Oxley
Ballenger Goodlatte Pearce
Barrett (SC) Goss Pelosi
Barton (TX) Granger Peterson (MN)
Bass Graves Peterson (PA)
Beauprez Green (WI) Petri
Bereuter Greenwood Pickering
Biggert Gutknecht Pitts
Bilirakis Hall Platts
Bishop (GA) Harman Pomeroy
Bishop (UT) Harris Porter
Blackburn Hart Portman
Blunt Hastings (FL) Pryce (OH)
Boehlert Hastings (WA) Putnam
Boehner Hayes Quinn
Bonilla Hayworth Radanovich
Bonner Hefley Ramstad
Bono Hensarling Regula
Boozman Herger Rehberg
Boswell Hinojosa Renzi
Boyd Hobson Reyes
Bradley (NH) Hoekstra Reynolds
Brady (TX) Holt Rodriguez
Brown (SC) Hostettler Rogers (AL)
Brown-Waite, Ginny Houghton Rogers (KY)
Burgess Hoyer Rogers (MI)
Burns Hulshof Rohrabacher
Burr Hunter Ros-Lehtinen
Burton (IN) Hyde Royce
Calvert Isakson Ruppersberger
Camp Israel Ryan (WI)
Cannon Issa Ryun (KS)
Cantor Istook Saxton
Capito Janklow Schiff
Cardin Jenkins Schrock
Cardoza John Scott (GA)
Carson (OK) Johnson (CT) Sensenbrenner
Carter Johnson, Sam Sessions
Castle Keller Shadegg
Chabot Kelly Shaw
Chocola Kennedy (MN) Shays
Clay King (IA) Sherwood
Coble King (NY) Shimkus
Cole Kingston Shuster
Collins Kirk Simmons
Cox Kline Skelton
Cramer Knollenberg Smith (MI)
Crane Kolbe Smith (NJ)
Crenshaw LaHood Smith (TX)
Crowley Lantos Smith (WA)
Culberson Latham Snyder
Cunningham LaTourette Souder
Davis (AL) Lewis (CA) Stenholm
Davis (CA) Lewis (KY) Sullivan
Davis (TN) Linder Sweeney
Davis, Jo Ann Lipinski Tancredo
Davis, Tom LoBiondo Tauscher
Deal (GA) Lowey Tauzin
DeLay Lucas (KY) Taylor (NC)
Diaz-Balart, L. Marshall Terry
Diaz-Balart, M. Matheson Thomas
Dicks McCarthy (NY) Thornberry
Dooley (CA) McCotter Tiahrt
Doolittle McCrery Tiberi
Dreier McHugh Toomey
Dunn McInnis Turner (OH)
Edwards McIntyre Turner (TX)
Ehlers McKeon Upton
Emerson Meeks (NY) Vitter
English Menendez Walden (OR)
Eshoo Mica Walsh
Evans Miller (FL) Weiner
Everett Miller (MI) Weldon (FL)
Feeney Miller, Gary Weldon (PA)
Ferguson Moran (KS) Weller
Foley Murphy Whitfield
Forbes Musgrave Wicker
Fossella Myrick Wilson (NM)
Franks (AZ) Nethercutt Wilson (SC)
Frelinghuysen Neugebauer Wolf
Frost Ney Wu
Gallegly Northup Young (AK)
Garrett (NJ) Norwood Young (FL)

--- NAYS 163 ---
Abercrombie Holden Olver
Ackerman Honda Otter
Allen Hooley (OR) Owens
Baca Inslee Pallone
Baird Jackson (IL) Pascrell
Baldwin Jackson-Lee (TX) Pastor
Ballance Jefferson Paul
Bartlett (MD) Johnson (IL) Payne
Becerra Johnson, E. B. Pence
Bell Jones (NC) Pombo
Berkley Jones (OH) Price (NC)
Berman Kanjorski Rahall
Berry Kaptur Rangel
Bishop (NY) Kennedy (RI) Ross
Blumenauer Kildee Rothman
Boucher Kilpatrick Roybal-Allard
Brady (PA) Kind Rush
Brown (OH) Kleczka Ryan (OH)
Brown, Corrine Kucinich Sabo
Capps Lampson Sanchez, Linda T.
Capuano Langevin Sanchez, Loretta
Carson (IN) Larsen (WA) Sanders
Case Larson (CT) Sandlin
Clyburn Leach Schakowsky
Conyers Lee Scott (VA)
Cooper Levin Serrano
Costello Lewis (GA) Simpson
Cummings Lofgren Slaughter
Davis (IL) Lucas (OK) Solis
DeFazio Lynch Spratt
DeGette Majette Stark
Delahunt Maloney Stearns
DeLauro Manzullo Strickland
Deutsch Markey Stupak
Dingell Matsui Tanner
Doggett McCarthy (MO) Taylor (MS)
Doyle McCollum Thompson (CA)
Duncan McDermott Thompson (MS)
Emanuel McGovern Tierney
Engel McNulty Towns
Etheridge Meehan Udall (CO)
Farr Meek (FL) Udall (NM)
Fattah Michaud Van Hollen
Filner Millender-McDonald Velazquez
Flake Miller (NC) Visclosky
Ford Miller, George Wamp
Frank (MA) Mollohan Waters
Gonzalez Moore Watson
Gordon Moran (VA) Watt
Green (TX) Murtha Waxman
Grijalva Nadler Wexler
Gutierrez Napolitano Woolsey
Hill Neal (MA) Wynn
Hinchey Oberstar
Hoeffel Obey

--- NOT VOTING 7 ---
Buyer DeMint Sherman
Cubin Fletcher
Davis (FL) Gephardt

[Saudade]

20. Unbelievable!

Kucinich is the only one worth a damn.

Any "Democrat" voting for this is a disgrace.

[absyntheNsugar]

24. Beyond disgrace

One can assume they are onboard with PNAC.

With the IWR, they were given false information. They made a mistake.

With this - they are bascially saying "Ashcroft we trust you to make all of our decisions for us."

It may be ABB in 2004, but this is enough to make a man (or woman) go Green afterwards...

[liberalpragmatist]

66. This was a house vote!

Sorry, but look at that roster and try to find Kerry, Edwards, or Lieberman on there. I'm not a fan of Lieberman's and if all 3 were to have voted yes, than sure, they deserve criticism. But given what that post shows, it's wrong for you to imply that they're all worthless when the Senate, it looks like, didn't even VOTE on the bill!

[absyntheNsugar]

21. Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi...

what's up with that?

And Pete Stark didn't even vote on it???

[SadEagle]

26. See above for a link to bill description

This is a budget bill, w/riders, making it a far more complex case --- they are basically attaching total nonsense to a very neccessary/routine budget work

[absyntheNsugar]

32. OK...so they are either

(1) Not doing their job, and sleeping when wolves prowl

(2) supporting the neo-cons

Either way, I want someone in who gives a damn!

[incapsulated]

34. They know what's in that bill

And if they don't, they should, so it's no excuse. This is too important.

[DuctapeFatwa]

36. Are you suggesting that members of congress should READ?

I believe that in itself constitutes a violation of the Patriot Act.

[diamondsoul]

44. Curious question-

Have you chosen a candidate, and will you contribute something substantive or just play devil's advocate to defend the pink-tutu Dems?

Sorry for the angry tone, a touch of frustration coming out, but directed more towards those responsible than you personally. Your comments have just brought it to the fore in this thread.

[DuctapeFatwa]

51. I do not support any of the candidates

Nor do I believe that "putting a Democrat face" on the PNAC strategies will increase your chances of successfully attaining old age, nor your children's chances of living in a country that does not resemble Rwanda.

I have no idea whether Mr. Rove will choose to change the on-air talent next year.

[Myra]

67. They didn't read the first one. It's just so looooooong...

Can you imagine voting for something 342 pages when you have no friggen idea what's in it?

[incapsulated]

27. Jesus, only three nays?

We are in trouble, for sure. :(

[absyntheNsugar]

30. 9 Nays actually

n/t

[incapsulated]

33. Sorry...

I kept "seeing" them as full names, heh.

[Rose Siding]

29. Was it a voice vote in the Senate?

n/t

[HFishbine]

35. Thank you

My pink tu-tued congressman is going to catch some hell from me on this.

[rucky]

37. Tallied in the House, Voice in the Senate

Gephardt didn't vote.

Have NFI how the Senate voted. Never will unless we ask.

[absyntheNsugar]

38. But the roll call shows Gephardt voting as a Yea

http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2003&rollnumber=333

[IndianaGreen]

39. What can you expect from a man that equates opposition to the war

to support for terrorism!

Gephardt sucks!

[rucky]

40. Are you sure that's the right Roll Call?

Check out roll call 649. When it came out of committee on 11/20. The count was 264-163

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=649&chamber=H&congress=1081

Then it went back to the Senate the next day & passed by voice vote. * Signed it 12/13

[absyntheNsugar]

41. Yes...just verified HR 2417

FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 333
(Republicans in roman; Democrats in italic; Independents underlined)

H R 2417 YEA-AND-NAY 27-JUN-2003 2:42 AM
QUESTION: On Passage
BILL TITLE: Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004


The numer of yays alarmed the sh** outa me too...

[rucky]

45. Reread the full timeline

What got passed in 333 was not the controversial part of the bill. The Patriot provisions were added after it went to the senate. Then the house voted on that. Then the senate. Here's the full life of the bill:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:HR02417:@@@X

It's amazing anything gets passed with all that bureaucracy.

[absyntheNsugar]

47. CORRECTION! GEPHARDT OFF S*** LIST!!!!

Tho very convenient that he didn't vote...this should take him off the S*** list.

What pisses me off is Pelosi voted for it!

Apologies to all Gephardt supporters....

[rucky]

49. He's still on mine

gutless. spineless.

Senators couldn't avoid the voice vote, but they need to make their positions clear.

[absyntheNsugar]

50. Well I agree

that he's gutless and spineless...he should have voted that day and he should have voted against.

But...by S*** list I meant the list of those who are on board with the PNAC for sure.

[diamondsoul]

42. AAAARRRGH!

Ok that sucks! Now I have to send a nasty-gram to Julia Carson who claims to support Dennis but has not yet delivered an endorsement.*sigh* She is showing more and more what I feared from her, that she votes according to HER best interests and not the peoples.

[absyntheNsugar]

48. Correction:

http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2003&rollnumber=649

[HFishbine]

57. Glad you made that correction

I was about to ream my congressman a new one. (I had called his office specifically on this matter). Now I see that won't be necessary.

[genius]

52. Dennis is trying to repeal it. He has a new bill to repeal it.

So no need to ask about him. Edwards is very concerned about the due process issues involved in USA PATRIOT and he wants to cut it back.

[DuctapeFatwa]

53. Although unable to vote on this bill, Dean is on record

as recognizing the need to re-evaluate civil liberties in light of the 9-11 events.

It would appear that the congress agrees with Dr. Dean.

[absyntheNsugar]

54. Correction

he is on record saying we need to re-evaluate security concerns post 9/11.

Very different.

[DuctapeFatwa]

55. Here's the link with his quote

As I said, I don't support any of them, so don't have an axe to grind, but as the congressional vote quantifies, this is what people want. I think Dean is a serious candidate, I don't think his decision to run was a spur of the moment thing, he saw a trend and grabbed it.

Dean said Wednesday he believed that the attacks and their aftermath would “require a re-evaluation of the importance of some of our specific civil liberties. I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street.”

http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/33681

[HFishbine]

60. Disturbing but

Dean made those comments the day after 9.11.

I trust him to fulfil this promise:

"...as we fight the war on terror, we must be vigilant in protecting civil rights and liberties. The rule of law and due process must continue to be the hallmarks of our judicial system. There is no contradiction between protecting the country from terrorism and ensuring the protection of our basic civil liberties every step of the way."

much more here: http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_patriotact

[DuctapeFatwa]

63. I don't think his supporters will be disturbed by either statement

Dean supporters tend to be a pretty sophisticated bunch who understand how the game is played. I don't think they would expect him to express the same view on an issue every time he talks about it.

[wanderingbear]

61. Moderate Dems..No better then Repgnacans..

I knoticed Dean wasnt on that list..

[teryang]

64. What about the oath to uphold the Constitution?

This is a rump body with no authority whatsoever.

This is an obvious end around the 4th Amendment. I guess it is too much trouble to get a warrant.

With a few exceptions this Congress is an awful disgrace.

[DuctapeFatwa]

65. I believe there is a little wooden spindle to uphold the constitution

in the master bathroom of the White House West Wing.

[teryang]

69. Good one!

Got a belly laugh out of that. Thanx.

[Myra]

68. Holy crap

kick

[ldoolin]

70. kick

nt