Checkmate

[debatepro]

Edwards eloquently remind Cheney of his own record in response to Cheney paternalistic comments about Edwards attendance. Someone actually voted against a National Holiday for Martin Luther King. Even more amazing a resolution not a bill (a resolution is a statement really not a law) calling for the release of Nobel Peace Prize recipient Nelson Mandela. Would you vote against a National Holiday for Cesar Chavez? Cheney's only response was that Edwards "record speaks for itself.” Seemingly shocked that Edwards stung together such a scathing critique of Cheney’s checkered past. Cheney what kind of ogre man are you?

Cheney said "And Senator…you have a record in the Senate that's not very distinguished...You've missed a lot of key votes...The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight..."

Edwards response was devastating for the Bush Campaign "That was a complete distortion of my record. I know that won't come as a shock. The vice president, I'm surprised to hear him talk about records. When he was one of 435 members of the...House, he was one of 10 to vote against Head Start, one of four to vote against banning plastic weapons that can pass through metal detectors. He voted against the Department of Education. He voted against funding for Meals on Wheels for seniors. He voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King. He voted against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela in South Africa. It's amazing to hear him criticize either my record or John Kerry's."

Pass it along.

[trumad]

1. Excellent post.... and welcome to DU

[debatepro]

11. Thanks

I don't feel that I am a great writter. But I write like I speak. I guess that is from being a debater in highschool and college.

[sendero]

2. "I know that won't come as a shock"

That was one of my favorite zingers dispensed with class by Edwards.

[Xipe Totec]

3. Cheney is Senile. Pass it On.

He's having memory problems. He can't remember that he met Edwards twice before the debate. Can we really trust this tired old fool to be co-president of the Unites States?

[rpannier]

4. Edwards rocked no doubt.

[CityHall]

5. Cheney knows he can't respond

He almost certainly still supports those votes, but he knows the subtleties of his logic will be lost on most people. Edwards made a lot of points like that, where Cheney would have to come off as an ideological extremist to respond.

He opposed the Mandela resolution because he thought the ANC was communist. MLK would be the only individual to have his own holiday. Plastic guns don't actually exist, it's symbolic. The DOEducation they oppose because it's full of liberals. Head Start is criticised as ineffective in The Bell Curve.

So those are his views, but they don't sound good to casual listeners. It's a bit of a cheap shot on Edwards' part, but quite effective at making Cheney look like the out-of-touch old capitalist that he is.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RoyalWickedness]

7. "Come off as an ideological extremist???????"

Gee, maybe that's because he IS an ideological extremist??? Of course his views don't sound good to the casual listener; they're CRAZY. Cheap shot? Since when is calling a spade a spade and making someone accountable for their actions a cheap shot?

[NinetySix]

14. DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

It does no good. Just give 'em one of these:

[deutsey]

10. "The Bell Curve"?

Well, that's a credible source...

:eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I'm Still Waiting Too.. (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. The Bell Curve...

Is that the discredited book that argues black folks are dumb and their ignorance is a function of genetics...


I do like it a bit cuz it says Jews and Asians are the smartest folks in America, even smarter than WASPS... It makes me feel good cuz my dad 's Jewish and my girlfriend's a Filipina..But it's nurture not nature.... Some groups just put a higher premium on education...


Also, you are wrong about the basis of his opposition to the Dept. of Education. As a conservative Cheney believes education is a state thing...


As far as the African National Congress I am sure there were some communists in it but that's no reason to keep Nelson Mandella in prison for decades. A man who wasn't a communist and committed no crimes...

As far as the MLK birthday he was the only individual American worthy of that honor...


As far as the plastic gun thing I haven't researched it...


Hang around DU you might learn something...

[demwing]

20. MLK holiday

Not counting Christmas?

How about Columbus Day?

Plastic weapons ceratinly do exist. You said guns, original post says weapons.

but, whatever, wolf in sheeps clothes...

[The Magistrate]

21. It Is No 'Cheap Shot', Sir, To Expose A Hard-Right Ideologue As What He Is

All the reptile's "logic" for these votes is spurious and delusional.

The African National Congress was not Communist.

The given pretext for opposition to the Dr. King holiday is merely a smoke-screen for the fact that the Republican voting base in the South and Southwest is racist to the core, and votes Republican largely because of Democratic support for civil rights: it is no accident Goldwater, who opposed the Civil Rights Act, was the first Republican since Reconstruction to carry Southern states, or that Nixon took up his "Southern Strategy" four years later.

There are weapons capable of evading an untrained x-ray examination available in the firearms market.

The Bell Curve does indeed claim to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of the program, but does so by extremely faulty manipulation of data, carried out by a commentator who proclaimed long before he wrote that work his conviction of Black intellectual inferiority: no person in any degree informed on the question grants the slightest credibility to that work.

It is not that his "logic" is too subtle for the people to grasp, Sir; rather, it is that it is too transparent by half to serve to blind the people to the reactionary and bigoted nature of the reptile's iseological beliefs....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Generator]

22. Exactly, being an IDEOLOGUE is the point the only point

that's what the whole war on terror is. An idea, with ideological points on how it must be played, damn the facts, damn the reality.

That is why they are so damn scary, because they are true believers. And believers will die proving that belief, or certainly offer up your name in the service of their belief.


Pro-aparthaid, because it gets in the way of his ideology. Sweeeeet.

[depakid]

8. Obviously, you don't play chess

although you did mention some good moves.

[debatepro]

15. I do play chess.

But I have been involved in debate. A state champion in highschool, our team was conistantly in the top 10 in college, and i did some coaching aswell. I know when a debate is one on issues and presence.

Now to the Chess - White prefer Reti/hypermodern and Ruy Lopez
lack: Against e4 I prefer the Scandinavian Defense(usually Portuguese Variation) Against d5 I like the Tarrasch Defense. Now I am no expert and clearly was a better debater than a chess player but I like to think I am above average.

[LiberalEconomist]

19. At last a chess player!!

I have been experimenting with the Trompowsky attack lately with good results. As black I play the Sicilian Kan against e4 and the Nimzo-Indian/Queens Indian against d4.

By the way, I agree with the previous poster, this may not be checkmate. I believe that Kerry and Edwards have exchanged down to a favorable endgame. They have to watch out for traps though.

[PATRICK]

9. Cheney played mainly defense

His "Meet the press" routine was so restrained, rambling the same talking points Dubya flubbed, so concerned about not losing it when baited that it was too safe on the demeanor side.

Or he is as tired and shopworn as he looks when he raises his lying eyes.
Thanks to a campaign they had not planned on, this dream team is tanking physically, though not the total burnout which in fact would be an extreme shakeup to their constant downward spiral. If it is agony for us, imagine the slow death the BC team is enduring, the dark dawn of defeat when the second phase of the empire comes up as an eclipse.

The media has been bad at their timely readings of campaigns other than blowouts(and they may be really discredited this year), too bad to notice that they are using a skewed interpretation of 2000(their own spin, not the reality). For every good point that Bush owns other than just being an incumbent, Kerry has double. That's just the positive things. Bush's negatives are ferocious, his defections passionate, his decline demoralizing. The media itself is under intense scrutiny this time as is Rove in a public way known to most of the nation. The advances that Bush has made since last time except the mindless mantras of incumbency and war, are nil. Just money lies and TV, and he just blew most of that away himself.

It is now possible to project a Kerry victory. It is important to break the back of more illusions, offer more hope, more comfort. Every scintilla of effort is needed for a mandate and a Congress, the envelope must be pushed. We have seen everything feared about Bush beaten back as though of us said was necessary instead of the misguided acquiescence of soft, almost amateurish politicians. The criminal fraud will be beaten back too. The October surprise(s) like Parlockian dirty tricks will be shadows to our light.

It should be interesting, but never lose heart. Losing heart loses pieces of the mandate, is a surrender of faith, a cheapening of confidence in what is good and must prevail.

Cheney has been a paper tiger, not a bit of true facts or straight shooting in his criticisms. A tired, cautious beast who does not admit his time is past, a walking contradiction that a man without a future can reshape the world into a shiny misery with masterly condescension and purity of arrogance.

[Jon8503]

13. Excellent reminders, yes I liked that comeback by Edwards. I

bet that one hit home to a lot of people. To me that was at least a
triple comeback if not a homerun back at Cheney.

[Fozzledick]

17. I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself

I'd call it: check, mate in three!

[cheshire]

18. Now who knows what happening in the senate, BE YATCH

[RollergirlVT]

23. One other minor fact......

"Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session."
--Dick Cheney
But actually, from our friends at the dailykos:
http://dave-the-pro.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/11163/2940

It seems Cheney considers 2 Tuesdays in the last 3+ years "most Tuesdays"
In Fact Edwards has presided as acting President in the Senate just as often as Dicky did!