Edwards didn't challenge Dick on his never met him remark because

[trumad]

Edwards knew better to let everybody else catch Cheney in his lie. That was a stroke of genious.....

[ThoughtCriminal]

1. Any images of his reaction?

nt

[TwilightZone]

2. Not sure I agree.

I think it might have been extraordinarily effective if Edwards had said, "Gee, Dick, don't you remember that National Prayer Breakfast back in 2001? We sat together and chatted for hours."

End of debate.

[trumad]

3. end of debate exactly

but I think this gets more play..MHOP

[TwilightZone]

5. That could certainly be true.

The media loves to "discover" things, so allowing them to find documentation proving Cheney wrong could prove more effective than Edwards pointing it out himself.

Edit: when I said "End of debate", I meant that Cheney would have had difficulty recovering from being proven a liar in his "big moment". He staged that moment and spent the entire night preparing for it. Being called on it instantly might have shaken him. Then, Edwards would have been in complete control the rest of the debate.

[ohioan]

7. But he wouldn't have come across as a proven liar at that point

He would have just played it off as as a busy, all-important man with the weight of the world on his shoulders forgetting that he sat next to some non-descript junior senator at a breakfast three years ago.

[TwilightZone]

10. Agreed.

And your point below about Cheney saying, "Guess you didn't impress me" is on target. Fits his dismissive attitude.

[ohioan]

13. I think he EXPECTED Edwards to call him on it and was prepared to

casually back off by claiming he just didn't remember. And the issue would have gone away, but Cheney would have made Edwards look like an unimpressive kid. Edwards called his bluff by NOT commenting on it, letting it ride for an hour (since he slammed him at the rally right after the debate) and gave Cheney's lie a full day of coverage.

[TwilightZone]

14. Excellent point. And exactly right, I bet.

I kept thinking, "How the hell could Cheney say something like that without knowing if it was true?"

(Edit: because it seems like a lie that is too easy to verify. Obviously, he lies about stuff all the time, but not usually stuff this easy to check.)

Well, the answer is: he knew it was false and was using it as a setup for the big moment - putting Edwards in his place by demeaning him with the "guess you didn't impress me" moment.

I also couldn't quite understand why Edwards wouldn't respond to it if he knew it was false. Makes sense now.

I guess Nixon wasn't the only "tricky Dick".

[ohioan]

18. But Tricky Dick didn't have John Edwards in his face

[AirAmFan]

15. Being called on his lie right away 'might have shaken him'? Don't think so.

Cheney is far past being shaken by mere words. Did you catch the expression on Cheney's face when Edwards recited his congressional voting record? Against Head Start, Meals on Wheels, a Martin Luther King holiday? Cheney just shrugged it off and replied with five seconds on Edwards's attendance!

Edwards was right to let "the judge and the jury" catch that one later, in the transcript.

[ohioan]

6. "Now that you mention it, I do vaguely remember. Guess you didn't make

much of an impression on me at the time."

End of debate. No discussion about Cheney's lie (since it wouldn't have been a lie since he corrected himself), no commentary about Cheney being out of touch, no analysis of why Cheney keeps telling lies.

Edwards did exactly the right thing.

[TwilightZone]

9. Yes, I can imagine Cheney saying almost exactly that.

That would have fit in quite nicely with the other snide remarks he made during the debate.

[WyLoochka]

20. Right, it was a trap for Edwards

a set-up. And our guy is so smart he didn't take the bait!

Cheney planned it! He thought Edwards would fall into the trap and remind him of their previous meetings. Cheney would then have had the opening to sneeringly deride Edwards, whom he was sure he could paint as a light weight, for failing to make a memorable impression.

The clip would have been sure to have been played at least 700 times. Repubs would have spun hard that it was as a knock out punch by the elder "statesman" over the youthful, inexperienced Senator Gone.

Edwards, sharp and wily as he is, picked up on how flat out weird it was that a guy he had met several times was sitting there bald faced lying about something so easily disproved. A novice would have taken the bait. It showed excellent instincts for Edwards to have refrained from making any comment on the lie at that moment and to instead - pivot the spotlight to Cheney's Congressional voting record! (Several people I encountered today were aghast over this revelation about Cheney).

The lie has unraveled. Cheney is in a humialiating predicament and Edwards, by side-stepping the "you're not memorable" low blow aimed at him, has come out unscathed.

Score this round a knock down for Edwards for using his brain, avoiding the trap and turning it back on Cheney, by getting his voting record out there for discussion.

[ohioan]

22. It also showed Edwards' confidence in his Rapid Response Team

He knew he didn't have to jump out on this issue, but could let it ride and allow his team to get the word out. Apparently, within an hour after the debate, the Kerry/Edwards team had tracked down and distributed photos to the press of two of their previous meetings.

Edwards really proved his mettle on this one. He stayed cool, didn't fall for the bait, stayed on message and slammed Cheney on an issue that he still can't address (the only response is that it Cheney's outrageous voting record was 20 years ago). He showed us what he's made of.

[JI7]

4. right, Cheney would have laughed it off as a mistake on his part

and that would not have been an issue anymore. he would have acknowledged in the debates that he was wrong, but then he could have gone further and attacked edwards for never seeing him in the senate for the past x number of months.

but the way it is now, it's become an issue. cheney lied. and it's part of the post debate analysis. and it's not just going away.

[ohioan]

23. That's an excellent point

Cheney might have gotten away with this if he had said he has never seen Edwards in the Senate doing Senate business - since all of their contacts were either outside of the Senate or in ceremonial events. But he went further and claimed that this was the first time they'd ever met.

If Edwards had come back at Cheney and reminded him that they had met before, Cheney could have not only made him seem insignificant, but could have noted that none of these encounters involved Senate business. This would NOT have been a good moment.

Edwards did exactly the right thing since the issue is not now whether Edwards was engaging in Senate business, but that Cheney lied.

[gratuitous]

8. Maybe Edwards wanted to forget it, too

Who would want to remember being at a prayer breakfast with Dick Fucking Cheney, anyway?

But I'll bet Cheney still wishes he had never met Edwards after getting his giant bald head handed to him last night.

[ohioan]

11. Edwards said today

that Cheney doesn't remember that three years ago he and Cheney sat at a table together for an hour or two. Last night, they again sat at a table for an hour or two "but I bet he won't forget it THIS time!"

[AirAmFan]

12. Great point! Had JE spoken up last night, millions would NOT be scratching

their heads today, wondering how Cheney could so casually say something so demonstrably untrue.

Many of those millions finally will say, AHA! Cheney is a LIAR! He lies when the truth would do just as well, because in his mind there is no bright line anymore between what is true and what Cheney merely wants people to BELIEVE is true.

[Carolinian]

16. Agreed. Edwards knew better than to let his opponent put him on the

defensive, which is what Cheney was trying to do. Edwards would have come across as a whiner if he had taken the bait. Edwards stayed in offensive mode and made his points perfectly. Edwards' style is natural, simple and straight forward and it's easy to overlook the brilliance behind it.

[Dehumanizer]

17. True, Edwards dropping the issue was like an investment..

It put him at a disadvantage at that moment, and made Cheney look really sharp then and for a little while after the debate..but once everything sunk in, everyone realized the truth.

[The empressof all]

19. He's either a liar or a slacker

Either way it doesn't bode well for Mr. Cheney. Either he out and out lied about not meeting Edwards or he just didn't do his homework. How anyone could go to a debate as important as this one without having his competition thoroughly checked out is beyond irresponsible and stupid. If he did his job he would have known every single time he had come into contact with Mr Edwards as he would have had one of his lackeys do a complete background check.

So what is it Mr. Cheney- Liar or Slacker?

[ohioan]

21. I can't believe that Cheney was not briefed on all of his previous contact

with Edwards. That's debate prep 101.

He knew. It was a setup - and a clever one, at that. But Edwards outfoxed him.

[Art_from_Ark]

25. For the bu$h people, this is debate prep 101:

[Awsi Dooger]

24. Edwards might have been vulnerable if he called Cheney on the remark

Remember, the entire focus of Cheney's criticism was based on Edwards' attendance record in the senate. He really screwed himself when he framed the statement, "never met you until tonight" instead of a more specific and effective "never worked with you on the Senate floor, you have never come up to me and discussed a vote and the issues, etc. unlike Democrats like Lieberman, Nelson, Zell Miller, whomever."

I saw that picture of Edwards at the ceremony swearing in Elizabeth Dole, but it wasn't clear Edwards and Cheney met or had any communication. Nor has there been a mention of other occasions of Edwards and Cheney meeting on the senate floor while in session.

An ideal debate opportunity might have been to wait until the summary and slip in the correction, but it didn't fit with Edwards' upbeat finale plus Cheney went last anyway, allowing a small chance he could have paried Edwards' blow.