Nudist named to Arizona GOP committee

[MannyGoldstein]

Source: East Valley Tribune

The Arizona Republican Party named Horst Kroust, the owner of a nudist resort in New River, to the party’s finance committee, a move that is drawing criticism from Democrats because the resort allows nude children to mingle with other nude children and adults.

Shangri La Ranch’s Web site offers this assessment of the facility: “Shangri La Ranch is one of the finest clothing-optional, family-oriented, year round recreational faculties in the Western United States. We emphasize the freedom of choice. You select the activity that suits you — from quiet relaxation to recreation.”

The resort also offered a weeklong camp for children in 2003. The camp was like other youth camps, with the exception that the campers were naked, Kroust said.

Criticism by Democrats is unwarranted, Kroust said.

Read more: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/95908

---

Make sure to check out the video at http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=4863

Am I a prude for thinking that this is very wrong?

[rurallib]

1. Will campaign events be held at his camp?

Enquiring candidates want to know. Back off there Rudi.

[KinkyDem]

5. No

No cameras are allowed.

Can you imagine a politico going ANYWHERE they could not get photographed?

[zabet]

2. A nudist camp for children...

or nirvana for pedophiles.

[madeline_con]

4. Whaaa?

What about the healthy, tan, "don't be such a prude" crowd? Have they not checked in yet? :popcorn:

[KinkyDem]

6. Show me the data

Where is it?
How can you justify saying this without any kind of backing data?
It's not a nudist camp for kids, it's for families ... and famalies often have kids.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. You May Be Right, But...

I'm thinking that it's an accelerant for http://www.armchairsubversive.org/">Republican child molesters. Perhaps I'm a prude, but this seems pretty creepy.

[KinkyDem]

14. So, it seems creepy ...

Way to go with the knee jerk reactions and simple minded opinions of things you have never actualy taken a good hard look at.

That sure is a reason to call nudists pedophiles, 'cause "It seems creepy".

[MannyGoldstein]

17. I Could Definitely Be Wrong

First off, I'm not saying that nudists=pedophiles. But this just smells like trouble.

My kid was bouncing on a bed today, next to a window. I told him to stop - one slip, and he could bounce through the window. Do I have empirical evidence that his odds of flying through the window were increased by bouncing on the nearby bed? No, I don't. But it doesn't seem like a smart thing to do - so until I have evidence otherwise, no bouncing on the bed.

[KinkyDem]

18. I can show you

case after case of children falling out of windows. Many many of them.

Can anyone show us evidence of child molstation happening at these camps?

Apples to apples, please.

[struggle4progress]

36. It seems child molestation occurred at THIS particular camp anyway:

see post #29 downthread

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Actually...

http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/NudistHallofShame/KidsMaybeatRisk.html

[KinkyDem]

20. one 15 year old article

about one persons personal files concerning this.

Please.

There are 300 million people in this country alone. I can find you hundreds, nay thousands (tens of thosands if we go back 15 years) of cases where children fall out of windows. And yet you provide one article with a dozen or so examples.

[zabet]

13. .....

"The resort also offered a weeklong camp for children in 2003. The camp was like other youth camps, with the exception that the campers were naked, Kroust said."

Pedophiles are even found in the churches, so it is not a far stretch to think their would be
a good chance of a director, counselor or even a family member attending the camp was potentially a pedophile.

[KinkyDem]

16. or ...

at school
at a summer camp
at church
at your next door neighbors house
your invited guests for dinner

Creeps are everywhere.
They also avoid places where scrutiny is extreme, like at nudist colonies.

[zabet]

21. An alarming percentage of molested children

are victimized by a family member.

[KinkyDem]

22. Yes. That is true

How does that help or hinder your argument on this topic?

Are nudists more likely than others to molest their own children? Is that what you are saying?

Did you read the article listed on the OP? The local cops are like "They report everything! All kinds of minor pointlerss things and they report it!".

So, do you suppose that clothed family summer camp would have more, less or the same number of statistical mollestation incidents?

I put forth that the nudists would be equal to or less than the average.

[zabet]

25. I do not really see it as an argument per say...

the statement was the first thing that popped in my head.
I have a different view, to the extent of paranoia about
child molestors due to having been a victim myself. I know
how easy it is for them to seem like 'the person next door,
the upstanding community member, the awesome family man' yet
their dark side only seen by their victims.
More power to anyone who feels comfortable letting their kids
run naked in a camp with adult counselors. My kids would never
be subject to that potential possibility. I look at it like laying
a steak in front of a dog, even if he has been fed, if he looks at
that steak long enough, he will get hungry and eat it, even if he
is told not to.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

27. dude, I'm sorry, but your username will not allow me to take your argument seriously.

but maybe it's just me. :shrug:

[KinkyDem]

39. Yes

Perhaps it is.

[struggle4progress]

32. See Post #29

#29

[zabet]

33. Thanks! n/t

[valerief]

3. I thought these nudist camps proliferated in the 70s under the guise of

being "natural and family friendly" but they were really havens for pedophiles.

[KinkyDem]

7. And what, exactly

gave you that impression? Montel Williams?

[valerief]

8. Who's he? nt

[KinkyDem]

12. I'm so proud of you

for not knowing!
You must not spend much time watching day time TV.

[Mojorabbit]

9. No

I have been several times and no one is gaping at eachother nor at the children. Good grief.

[KinkyDem]

11. If this was a DEM

The repugs would be screaming about how terrible it is.
But, since it's one of those, you know, repugs, we can be hell bent on spinning the truth to make him look bad.

Makes no sense to me.

[Mojorabbit]

24. True

but we should be better than that. I can tell you that the times I went they were very strict regarding behaviour and anyone acting up even a little bit was thrown out.
Great fun though. Nothing like it. And the weird thing is after a few hours you quit even noticing that no one has any clothes on.

[terisan]

15. Yes possibly you are being prudish. Nudism or naturalism has been around a long time

and appatently is a family friendly activity. There are camps all over the country for people who appently don't feel the need for Fig Leaf coverage in good weather.

Here is some info from a north Georgia camp. I met someone who lives there, although I have never visited.

http://www.serendipity-park.com/rules.asp

"Your Behavior Is Your Passport"

Overview: Serendipity Park is a family-oriented nudist park, which means that our children live and play here. We are committed to providing a safe, healthy environment for them, and we conduct ourselves accordingly. The quickest way OUT of Serendipity Park is to be perceived as a threat to our kids.

1. All guests must check in at the office upon arrival. Members who bring guests are responsible for their conduct and any fees or charges left unpaid.

2. Always sit on your towel when nude.

[KinkyDem]

23. even longer than clothes!

The towel rule is about hygien not modesty.

The clothing optional events I have been to (clothed, thank you) attendees were expected to cover their genitals in the public eating venues.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

26. necessity requires that you use some type of protective clothing...

to keep things from (ahem) 'flapping around', or to prevent sitting-on-the-ground contamination.

I think nudists take it just a bit too far...
Totally naked is just not practical, imho.

[struggle4progress]

28. Sometimes identified as Horst KRAUSE or KRAUS:

What's Wrong With Nude Camps for Teens?
Aired June 20, 2003 - 20:47 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well last night we told you about some unusual summer camps for teenagers. They're a lot like most summer camps except for one thing, the kids don't wear clothes. The phenomenon has not gone unnoticed on Capitol Hill. Congressman Mark Foley has called for an investigation by authorities in Florida where one of these camps is located ...

We have three guest tonight. Dr. Robert Butterworth is a child psychologist, he joins us from Los Angeles. Horst Kraus is the owner of the Shangri La Ranch in Arizona. And Jesse Ferrier is a counselor at the camp, again, attending nudist camps when he was 17 ...

COOPER: Well let me ask, Mr. Krause, you run -- operate one of these camps. What is your experience? You think it's a good thing for kids? ...

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0306/20/se.18.html


As we understand there are two candidates: Timothy Lee and Horst Kraus ... Mr. Kraus has a (notice - the following site contains images of nudity) clothing optional resort north of Phoenix ... http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=623


<edit:> The following webpage contains a comment signed "Horst Kraus" with the email address "[e-mail]": http://azpoliticalintel.blogspot.com/2007/07/why-is-politico-mafioso-and-his-mccain.html

<edit:> ... Faber has grown up a nudist. Her grandfather, Horst Kraus, bought the Shangri La Ranch, a nude resort with rental units, RV and camping space, in 1997. Her mother is camp director ... http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php?Number=8324

[struggle4progress]

29. “…..Horst Kraus testified on behalf of a previously convicted child molester in a case involving ...

... a young boy at his nudist camp during a trial in October 2000. As a witness for the defense, Kraus testified to the good character of the defendant and the “untruthfulness” of the victim. The defendant, Owen Thompson, is now serving two life sentences for dangerous crimes against children at Shangri-La Ranch.

While Kraus complained about the timeliness of raising Thompson’s crimes, the Arizona State Supreme Court just ruled on Oct. 26 against a petition from Thompson for post-conviction relief on grounds of inadequate attorney support and vague constitutional issues that had already been rejected by appeal courts. Thompson will continue to serve his life sentences.

Thompson was a resident at Shangri-La when he befriended a young boy whose mother had moved into the camp with her live-in boyfriend. In 1997, Thompson, according to the verdict of a jury in two separate trials, molested the child in the pool of the nudist camp and again during an outing to Lake Pleasant. During the investigation, it was determined that Thompson had been convicted in Maricopa County Superior Court of molesting two other young boys in 1982. In his retrial on the Shangri-La offenses, the second jury took less than four hours to reach a unanimous verdict of guilty and Thompson was sentenced to life in prison on two counts.

While Kraus wrote that he testified during the appeals portion of Thompson’s trial, he actually was a witness for the defense during the retrial who testified, according to court insiders and Kraus himself, about the character of the defendant and the lack of truthfulness of the child victim. Even after the convictions and the early revelations of prior offenses, Kraus told this reporter, “It’s suspicious to me that no sooner Owen was gone and the child latched onto another single man.” He said that the child later charged the second man with molestation, but it was never taken to police as the alleged perpetrator left town immediately.Thompson, on the other hand, had praise from Kraus. “He was a model tenant,” said the nudist camp owner. “Thompson never fell out of line with any other child.” ...

http://sonoranalliance.com/?p=638

According to the link, this is an excerpt from Trouble in Paradise (Sonoran News, November 2004)

[struggle4progress]

30. Top 150 Donors/Individual Financial Contributors to ... Shadegg

Top 150 Donors/Individual Financial Contributors to the Political Campaign of Congressman John Barden Shadegg ...

Kraus, Gisela
New River, AZ 85087
Shangri La Ranch/Administrator ...

Kraus, Horst
New River, AZ 85087
Self/Kraus Investments L.C. ...

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/campaigns/john_b_shadegg.asp?cycle=08

Related page: http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/arizona_new_river_85087.asp?cycle=08

[struggle4progress]

34. Nudist camp Companies in the United States

... Kraus Investments Lc Phoenix, AZ ...
http://www.manta.com/mb_35_B702002V_000/nudist_camp

[KinkyDem]

41. How much

money did YOU contribute to the DNC last year?
To local campaigns?
How does donating to right wing campaigns = child molestation by nudists?

Nudist + republican = child molester?

I don't get it.

Show me previous outrage on your behalf over nudists and nudist colonies and I might take you more seriouosly but I have yet to see anything other than annicdotal evidence that this guy Kraus is an asshat that would somehow show that nudists and nudist colonies are a breediong ground for pedophiles.

If you want fertile pedophile growing mix, go check out the churches and scout groups.

[struggle4progress]

43. For a discussion of pedophilia at THIS camp, see

#29

For an explanation of the point of my other posts here, including the campaign finance info, see #42

[lonestarnot]

44. ackety fucking ack!

:puke: :puke: :puke:

Way worse than the nudie stuff.

[struggle4progress]

31. FundRace 2008

...
Horst Kraus
Entrepreneur
Self
John Mccain $2,300
2008
44444 N SHANGRI LA LN
NEW RIVER AZ

Gisela Kraus
Administrator
Shangri La Ranch
John Mccain $2,300
2008
46834 N SHANGRI LA LN
NEW RIVER AZ
...

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=Kraus

<edit:> Google maps "N SHANGRI LA LN, NEW RIVER" ARIZONA returns a graphic with the expected zipcode indicating that N SHANGRI LA LN is about 1000 feet long

[KnaveRupe]

35. See, and I find REPUBLICANISM way more offensive than nudism. n/t

[rekoveringamerikan]

37. for a so called 'progressive' web site

i'm amazed at the hatred and judgementalism on this thread. we were all born naked. if you believe in god and wear clothes, that is sinful. he meant you to be nude. Cuase that is how he made you.

Pedophiles are EVERYWHERE. Just because some of us enjoy a textile free lifestyle, don't put us all in a bucket as one. that is WRONG!

I left amerika (for the second time) a bit over 4 years ago. Not because of the consevative republicans as a group. More because I find the 'liberal' hypocrisy eqaully stupid.

WAKE UP AMERIKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[struggle4progress]

38. The owner of this particular camp was a character witness for a pedophile at his camp

according to the story linked in post #29

It's not at all clear to me exactly why you think, that noting this fact, constitutes "liberal hypocrisy"

[KinkyDem]

40. OK

So, this Krause guy is a republican. He displays this by giving money to candidates he supports and lets them pubklish his name. He's clearly not hiding anything.

He clearly believed the othr guy and not the child. Lapses of judgment happen to the best of us.
So the guy was wrong about his buddy. Should we arrest and imprison him as well?

After several years being active in alternative sexual lifestyles it never ceases to amaze me the number of right leaning conservative participants. In the kink/BDSM/Swinger/Poly crowd (of whom I am much more acquianted) progressive deomcrat is an odd minoroty, but it's true, we are.

I'm not endorsing this man or his establishment. I don't support his politics and clearly I am concerned about his defending someone who later was convicted of molestation, however I am not willing to vilify him or his lifestyle or others who practice it for these reasons alone.

This guy is a republican and gives money to support his preferred party. How much money did YOU give tot he DNC last year? How many would call YOU a traitor for giving to the DNC?

Funny how progressive and understanding of other peoples lifestyles is not common in the kink/alt community.
Funny how progressive and understanding of other peoples lifestyles is not common ... here ... sometimes.

[struggle4progress]

42. Most of my posts here are intended to document "Horst Kroust" is also called "Horst Kraus"

The OP refers to "Horst Kroust". On the other hand, most available info refers to "Horst Kraus". For various reasons, one should ask whether "Horst Kroust" and "Horst Kraus" are the same person. The campaign finance info provides "Horst Kraus" and "Gisela Kraus" at different addresses on "N Shangri-la Ln" in New River (where the Shangri-la Ranch is located), with Gisela identified as the administrator of the Shangri-la Ranch and Horst as associated with a company, for which I provide another link identifying the company as owning the Shangri-la Ranch; yet another link I provide indicates Horst's daughter runs the "ranch." That Gisela is Horst's daughter would account for the different addresses on "N Shangri-la Ln", and the fact that these people live on "N Shangri-la Ln" and are associated with the "Shangri-la Ranch" suggests that "Horst Kroust" is "Horst Kraus"; and the history of donations to Republicans is further consistent with GOP office. After some effort, I think the evidence available to me indicates that "Horst Kroust" is "Horst Kraus."

It was asked upthread whether there were pedophile issues: in response, I indicated what I found regarding "Horst Kraus."

Not being a nudist myself, I have no particular view on a number of subsidiary questions, such as whether nudism is a harmless hobby offensive only to uptight puritans or a skanky lifestyle on a slippery slope leading to sodom and gomorrah: frankly, I do not find such questions interesting. And I don't know what I wrote anywhere that you could interpret as calling him "a traitor" since mostly I cut and paste from other websites, which either were nudist-related or provided dry campaign finance info.

[lonestarnot]

45. Oh go put yer clothes on.

heh.