How Does Phoenix Compare To Austin As A Place To Live?

[ihavenobias]

My GF and I are looking to move to a warmer place within the next 1.5-3 years or so, and our primary motivation is weather. We just can't handle the brutal Chicago winters anymore (this last one was the 4th cloudiest and snowiest on record), and the cold and lack of sun has been too much for many years.

I've done a lot of reading and a little talking to people in both cities, and they both have pros and cons. Politically speaking, it seems that Austin is more progressive and eco friendly, which I love. I know Tucson has a more progressive population, but isn't Phoenix more conservative?

Weather wise, they both have brutal summers both honestly, I would think the dry AZ summer would be better than the sticky, humid Austin summer that also involves mosquitoes (how do people deal with them? We have them here but with more water there, it's gotta be much worse) and flash floods. I mean, I would more nights in AZ would be tolerable after sunset compared to humid nights. But I realize in either case most people probably go from air conditioned house to air conditioned car to (fill in the blank air conditioned place). And yes, I'd welcome that compared to having to spend 10 minutes bundling up to go outside in the cold and shoveling snow and ice off the car and driving on the icy roads!

I believe Austin has lower crime rates than Phoenix (keep in mind I'm referring to Phoenix area, not specifically IN the city of Phoenix), and there also seems to be a LOT more to do in Austin. Tons of arts, culture, festivals, music, food and on and on. Coming from Chicago those things are important to me.

We also enjoy nature and animals quite a bit, and it seems like Austin would offer more of those opportunities (although I know AZ has mountains and other beautiful things).

Finally, the cost of living in both cities is a solid amount lower than Chicago, particularly housing which is a huge plus for us.

I appreciate any and all feedback on this topic. I didn't cover everything (employment etc., but we've looked into that as well obviously), but feel free to add anything you think I might want to know. And keep in mind that I KNOW there is no perfect place to live, and that individual preferences vary. I'd just like some opinions.

Thanks

[alstephenson]

1. I've lived in the Phoenix area for 20 out of the last 30 years.

I think you'll like Austin better. I can't tell what age you are, but Austin is much younger and hipper. And yes, Arizona is definitely a RED state, home to two of the worst Senators in the country - vile Kyl and the McSame guy. Our county sheriff (Sheriff Joe - google his ass and you may have an easy decision) is a racist power monger. We have a Democratic Governor, but our Secretary of State is as crooked (and Republican) as they come. Geez, what the hell am I doing here? I love the desert, but it's not for everyone. Good luck!

[ihavenobias]

2. Thanks

I'll be 30 in December if it makes a difference.

Have you ever been to Austin?

[Kali]

3. big difference between Tucson and Phx

I don't know Austin, but it sounds like a pretty decent place to live in the middle of a huge redneck state. Tucson is kind of like that too.

[ihavenobias]

4. Yeah

I've read that Tucson is more progressive, but it also seems to have some serious water problems (i.e. lack of resources), far less arts, culture and nightlife available (relative to Austin) and obviously a lot less green.

[Kali]

5. one thing you might do is peruse the local alt weekly

Tucson has a fairly large arts community and a really good local music scene for a city of its size. I'm sure Austin has a similar paper.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Cover/index

of course keep in mind a lot of stuff shuts down in the summer.

[ihavenobias]

6. Thanks for the link

It gets brutally hot in Austin too, but things seem to keep going year round.

[AZBlue]

7. It's much smaller than Phoenix.

[AZBlue]

8. How do you like living in Chicago, aside from the weather?

Culturally, is it your kind of place? I ask because I'm from the east coast originally (NYC and then D.C.) and to me Arizona is the boonies. I hate it here. BUT, I have a lot of friends who absolutely love it and would never leave. Whenever I've been Chicago I always breathe deeply and think, "oh, thank goodness, I'm in a real city!!!" So, if you're looking for something similar to Chicago, I would bet Austin is more like it than Phoenix (although I've never been to Austin).

I moved here in '91 and can tell you it's really changed for the better since then. When I first moved here, if you didn't like country music and rodeos, you were out of luck. Now, there's a lot more to do. It's one of the fast growing cities in the country, so naturally it's grown up some.

But, it's still no cultural hub. I still go to other cities for my "real" theater or art. There's a fairly big party scene, but it's home to the $25K-a-year "millionaires" who are all about boob jobs and designer labels.

Now, having said all that, there are a LOT of people who like it a lot here. Do you like outdoor activities (hiking, biking, camping, etc)? This is a great place for it. The heat is horrible, but the winters balance it out - it's nice to have 60-degree weather when the rest of the country is in 6 layers to to dig out their cars. It seems like a good place to raise a family (although I don't have kids so am no expert on that). The educational system isn't great but the cost of living's pretty good. Shopping's getting better every year and the cultural choices have gotten better as I said earlier. The state's pretty red but we do have a great Democratic governor and we seem to get a little bluer each year.

I would suggest getting some Sunday and weekday issues of The Arizona Republic (although that's referred to as The Arizona RepublicAN often). Also check out azcentral.com and azfamily.com from time to time - they are the most popular and best local sites.

Feel free to write back or PM me with any specific questions. I hope I didn't give too negative a view - I just wanted to be honest, especially since you are coming from the "big city" LOL!

[ihavenobias]

10. Yes, I love Chicago

Aside from the weather.

That's a big part of why Austin is so appealing, the variety of arts, culture, music, events and on and on. And yes, outdoor activities are plentiful there (which I don't do as much partly because it's cold, snowy or cloudy far too many months out of the year).

I bought a book on Austin/the Austin area and am overwhelmed (in a good way) by how much there is to do. We actually just booked a trip there for a couple weeks from now and have to figure out how to cram in all of the things we want to see and do into 5 days.

We actually visited Phoenix about a year and a half ago in January. We enjoyed our visit, but we KNEW we'd like it in January. And again, it seems like Austin offers so much diversity, not to mention the air quality is much higher. I could do without the flash floods and humidity, but no place is perfect and at this point I'll take that over snow storms and sub zero wind chills.

But who knows, we might come back from there later this month and for whatever reason decide we prefer AZ. If so, I'll have to PM you, thanks for the offer!

[AZBlue]

14. We don't have humidity - but we do have "monsoon" season in July - Sept.

It will rain in the evenings and absolutely pour - electricity can go out and streets will flood. At least it's only two months of the year.

A trip is a good idea - check it out for yourself. Have fun!!

[ihavenobias]

15. So wait

Doesn't that mean it's incredibly hot AND humid for those two months?

[NoodleBoy]

16. the humidity lasts maybe an hour at night.

the ground is really dry so it sucks up all the moisture very quickly.

Makes those nights really nice though.

[AZBlue]

17. Yeah, the monsoons actually bring a break from the heat.

You actually start hoping it will rain. Like NoodleBoy said, the humidity is gone fast - just after the rain stops it might be a little humid, but that's gone very quickly.

[Ptah]

9. I would choose Austin over Phoenix in a desert minute.

Tucson is the center of Baja Arizona.



If you have the chance, try

http://www.desertmuseum.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona-Sonora_Desert_Museum

[NoodleBoy]

11. Ok. I wasn't going to get into this thread, but as maybe the only Phoenix native here

I think I should now.

Yes, Phoenix gets hot in the summer. Yes, "Phoenix" is actually 25+ cities that can take hours to get from one side to the other. Yes, Phoenix has a tiny Democratic plurality that is outweighed by the very red communities surrounding it. It's also not dense, and most of the buildings over two stories tall are confined only to downtown, and you have to have a car to live here.

On the other hand, if you live in central Phoenix now, you'll be seeing a city finally growing up. I grew up there myself, and the changes I've noticed in the last 15 years are really astonishing. When I first got old enough to be allowed to venture around by myself, the city center was so dead that it wasn't dangerous-- there weren't even criminals in the area, that's how barren it was, despite technically being the government and financial center for the entire state. Finding something to do on a weekend night usually meant staying in and watching TV.

But now, everything is different. I feel left out of it because I moved to Tempe to be closer to school, but I feel jealous of the people living in the neighborhoods I lived in in central Phoenix because even within the last year cultural and city life has grown exponentially. The First Friday artwalk used to be one street that was embarrassingly dusty for being so close to the densest areas of town that was attended only sporadically by young hipsters, some yuppies and some curious older folks. Foot traffic on that street now spills off the narrow sidewalks into the road, and driving becomes impossible. The artwalk now includes that street (Roosevelt), as well as Grand, Central Ave., the 7th Ave/Melrose curve, and 7th street off of the Coronado neighborhood. The resulting economic boom from this once-a-month phenomenon has given rise to numerous permanent cafes, bars, restaurants, and niche shops that used to not last one summer here.

That's just one part of the economic and cultural revival of Phoenix's downtown. There's an "unholy trinity" that has some NIMBY's upset, but are going to make downtown Phoenix even more of a place to want to be. Light rail is going in, and while it has caused the expected temporary traffic congestion that putting in a new system always entails, it will connect the downtowns of Phoenix and Tempe, as well as the economic engine that makes North Phoenix semi-habitable, Metrocenter (I recently got a job in downtown Phoenix-- if I'm still living in Tempe when light rail opens in a year, I'll be able to take it to work every day, and not have to use my car to make any part of the trip). The other prong that some complain about has been the development of condos and apartment buildings downtown. These are mostly going in as redeveloped office buildings or warehouses that haven't seen reliable tenants in decades, or abandoned buildings or empty lots (I know-- who would have thought America's 5th largest city would have any of these in its downtown. There are still some there). As someone who saw those buildings or empty places at their nadir, when they were mostly places for homeless, drug addicts, or drug dealers to hang out, I really can't understand why their actual use is considered a bad thing. The last thing that some people hate that has brought life to Central Phoenix is gentrification-- basically when people move into a dilapidated neighborhood and improve it, house by house, eventually displacing the previous lower-income residents. Gentrification in Phoenix has taken a somewhat different approach than usual, with the city assisting some low-income residents in improving their homes and keeping the property tax rate low enough to allow them to continue living in their neighborhoods. Also, because of these three things even progressive people love to hate, the neighborhoods in Central Phoenix are some of the least effected by the current mortgage and real estate crisis in Arizona.

So that's my view on it, from someone who was born here. If you want to live anywhere in the Valley, live in Central Phoenix, or as close to it as you can. Also, try to check out the websites for different places and events, like the Phoenix Art Museum, the Heard Museum, etc. www.phoenixnewtimes.com is a good place to start if you want to look.

[ihavenobias]

12. Thanks

Although I thought Phoenix was the 4th (not the 5th) largest city? Also, what about the "brown cloud"?

PS---Three things in favor of Phoenix (over Austin) is that it's dry, relatively close to Las Vegas and San Diego/LA and has pro sports terms.

[NoodleBoy]

13. the cloud isn't as bad as LA was in the 90's

It's partly there because of LA in fact-- the winds blow east here, so part of it is their smog, another part of it is just the simple fact that we're at the bottom of a large, dusty, bowl-shaped valley, and part our own fault, of course.

So far I've only had one day in my life where I couldn't be very active outside because of the smog, but I'm also an occasional smoker who had asthma as a kid. There's currently something of a solar boom happening right now, and hybrid cars are everywhere, so it might be getting better.

[AZBlue]

19. And the sports teams are big here.

There's always at least one game to go two, often two or three. Even the Cardinals, who aren't exactly #1, are big because of their new stadium.

Nonetheless, you have to consider coming from a city like Chicago what the "culture shock" will be like. It's good that you're visiting both places. I moved here from the D.C. area and cried my first two days here. Had I visited first, I might not have come.

Of course, it's 17 years later and I'm still here...so obviously I realized it wasn't quite as bad as I first thought. But, I won't be here indefinitely (I'm staying for now because of elderly parents that live here).

It's a tough decision, but once you've visited both places I'm sure your gut feelings will help you choose correctly!

[AZBlue]

18. You're point about the light rail is an excellent one.

The Phoenix area has radically grown in the last 10-15 years and once the light rail is up and running that should only speed up that change.

[ihavenobias]

20. Someone just posted a good thread on gas prices and mass transit

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x147653

PS---With all of that sun, I could only imagine what a good investment in solar could do down there.

[lonestarnot]

21. No water soon. LOL

When the water war starts we are SOL.