S.F. may hit drivers with variety of tolls

[alp227]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

Drivers crossing greater downtown San Francisco and the southern border with San Mateo County could be hit with a new toll costing them as much as $1,560 a year.

Everyone from workers to parents dropping off their kids at school could have to pay the new charge, which is designed to ease congestion and raise revenue for extra bus service, pothole repairs and bike and pedestrian improvements.

For several years, San Francisco transportation officials have considered imposing a charge to drive in targeted neighborhoods, and on Wednesday they said they hope to move forward with one or more pilot projects.

The earliest the new tolls would go into effect would be 2015, and then only for a six-month to one-year experiment to gauge public reaction and the effectiveness.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/11/10/MNO71GA6AK.DTL&ao=all

[Newsjock]

1. The brave rulers of Ecotopia strike again

San Francisco is wholly dependent upon tourism for its economy to survive. By erecting even more barriers, the city is shooting itself in the foot. Not everyone who visits SF can take BART or Caltrain to their destination.

They should just be more up-front about their disdain for unclean, unsophisticated out-of-towners, especially those creepy Peninsula types who befoul their fair paradise. Just erect a wall at the San Mateo County line, and that'll keep the city pure and untainted by those of us who aren't worthy.

I wish it were :sarcasm:, but it is not.

[tabatha]

2. If they want more bus transportation

then they will be allowing the so-called "unclean, unsophisticated out-of-towners".

BIG DUH !!!

[WingDinger]

3. They got plenty of real, right in town. Don't kid yourself.

[cyr330]

34. Most tourists fly in and don't drive in the city.

I would venture to say that most people who live here in the city don't drive either. Those who drive are those who commute from the surrounding suburbs, and even they can take BART.

[Renew Deal]

4. San Francisco does not sound like a nice place to live.

Between banning Happy Meals and Pet Stores and this, it just seems like a pretty crappy place to try to have a happy life.

[ProudDad]

6. So your idea of a "happy life"

is feeding phony-deadly-frankenfood-substances to kids and impenetrable traffic? :eyes:

San Francisco is the closest thing to a walkable European city with a great mass transit system in this country.

It's the closest thing to a civilized city in this benighted country...

If it weren't for the bloody cold weather, I'd never have left...

[Newsjock]

7. If Muni is as close as we can get to 'great' mass transit

Then we really are screwn indeed. Average distance between stops is just over 0.1 mile, and the average speed ... well, it's often quicker to walk. And don't anyone dare even think of removing any of those bazillion stops on every block -- as they say, every stop is a voter.

[Ginto]

14. Sorry. European cities aren't completely unaffordable to the working class.

I love San Francisco, but the sheer cost and the gentrification over the last 40 years is staggering.

[FarCenter]

18. Haven't most businesses moved down the penninsula or to East Bay

San Jose is now larger than San Francisco.

From wiki -- "San Francisco ranks third of American cities in median household income with a 2007 value of $65,519. Median family income is $81,136, and San Francisco ranks 8th of major cities worldwide in the number of billionaires known to be living within city limits. Following a national trend, an emigration of middle class families is contributing to widening income disparity and has left the city with a lower proportion of children, 14.5%, than any other large American city."

[Ginto]

20. It's also one of the least diverse cities.

As percentage of brown people go.

[FarCenter]

21. 31+% Asian

[Ginto]

22. Last time I checked they weren't brown.

Oddly enough. I think Asian's have the highest rate of higher education of any ethnicity. Not really related, but an interesting stat.

[FarCenter]

31. So "brown" = only "mestizo" or "Native American"?

North Asians and Native Americans would have split only about 20,000 years ago.

[AsahinaKimi]

27. YAY!!!!!FOR US!!

wOOOoooooT!! ...sorry just had to do that!! ^^"

[Ginto]

30. Yay for what?

For gentrifying the city?

[AsahinaKimi]

42. Ya know what?

I don't need your snarks.

[XemaSab]

38. AKA "honorary white people."

n/t

[boppers]

41. AKA "slave labor who built the west without technically being property"

When I was born it was considered miscegenation for an "asian" to marry a "white", just as an "african" marrying a "white".


edit: one-letter typo

[XemaSab]

47. It's all true

Chinatowns were burned to the ground 130 years ago, and Japanese people were rounded up and put into camps within the lifetimes of many people alive today.

But what percent of students at the UC today are Asian? And what percent of people in prison in California are Asian?

Asians in California have worked hard and risen to the top, and they deserve nothing but admiration for this.

Is San Francisco 100% white? Certainly not. But compared with all of the other large cities in California, San Francisco is more affluent and less brown and black.

[boppers]

49. It's more "yellow" than many places, yes.

If we're using a color system.

[AsahinaKimi]

28. least diverse?

Are you kidding me? Listen, my dad once said, that you could spend an entire month here eating at a different restaurant each night and STILL not cover all the countries in the world that are represented here.

[Ginto]

29. That's like saying that Disney World is diverse. nt

[AsahinaKimi]

43. Wow...

Snarkzilla much?

[cyr330]

36. LOTS of Latinos, Asians & Pacific Islanders

[cyr330]

35. Good Point But. . . .

But I'm a simple RN, and we make enough $$ to live in the city. It's a very union-friendly city, and CNA (California Nurses Association) has negotiated excellent salaries and benefits for its nurses--enough to live comfortably in the city and have enough left over to save. I come out way ahead here, although I pay much, much more in rent than I did down south (New Orleans).

[AsahinaKimi]

16. Thanks for your positive comments on THE CITY.

We do seem to have one of the best transit systems,(though I do have some small complaints about Muni) with lots of options. I can't imagine them putting up a "New York State Thru way"~like toll booth in San Mateo, that would be way beyond wacky.

I love living in this city. There IS so much here!! But as for the cold you are right. Somehow that ocean air mixed with cold fog penetrates even blankets and pajamas on a cool night. But, it sure beats waking up early in the morning to shovel snow!!

[Taverner]

17. MUNI is great, but the drivers can be a bit insane

[Gormy Cuss]

25. Boston and New York are walkable cities with better mass transit

because in the SF Bay area there are too many agencies slicing up the pie into very irregular pieces.

[Renew Deal]

56. Ummm, no

NY is the greatest city in this country. More people walk more here than anywhere else. It's more diverse than any other city. The mass transit is superb and we don't have the traffic snarls that SF and CA have.

The quality of life in NY is excellent. There are no laws about Happy Meals, Circumcisions, or many other things. It's not perfect, but it's about as good as you'll get in a large city.

[cyr330]

33. NO! It's an EXCELLENT place to live!

It's progressive, beautiful, and there are a ton of things to do. It's the most progressive city in the USA. . .

[chidy]

44. shhh!

no, you're completely wrong. it sucks. no one should move there. ever. especially people who hate the idea of socialism. please, they should all just stay away. it's an urban hellhole, and roving gangs of militant queers will probably rob you and make you wear make up while they steal all your walmart coupons and force you to dance. so just don't go. esp to the museums, restaurants, bars and clubs, and ethnic 'hoods. no, for your own safety, just don't ever visit.

[cyr330]

45. Good Point!!! It IS a HELL HOLE!!

:)

[REP]

51. No! The whole Bay Area is hell on earth! No one should move there!

Save yourself! Stay away!

[Renew Deal]

57. San Francisco is making progressivism look bad.

I wouldn't brag about how "progressive" SF is after the last couple weeks of authoritarionism.

[ProudDad]

5. If it works to cut down the insane traffic snarls...

I'm all for it!

One of the major reasons I moved out of the S.F. area was the traffic...

The other being the execrably cold weather...brrrr...

But I watched the gridlock grow from 1966 until leaving in '07 -- horrible...

[AndyTiedye]

8. Not Sure How "Green" This Really Would Be

Lots of people who are going THROUGH SF to the Bay Bridge or the Golden Gate will drive miles out of their way to take the San Mateo Bridge and the Richmond-San Rafael.

[LeftinOH]

9. San Francisco has a very good public transit system; a vibrant, pedestrian-friendly city

which I enjoy visiting. Most large American cities offer pitiful (or non-existent) public transit and downtowns that effectively shut down after 5:00pm. When conservatives derisively use the term "San Francisco values", to me, it's just a reminder of how great the City by the Bay really is.

[wilt the stilt]

11. yeah I agree SF values

I was there last week. The values of openness, non judgmental, friendliness and intellectualism I love vs. the south were it is judgmental phony friendliness, hate and anti-intellectualism prevails. I was in SF last week and I love it. I gotta get out of this place if it's the last thing I ever do.- The Animals

[StarsInHerHair]

55. I love S.F.

I'd move back if I could.

[bluedigger]

10. "only for a six-month to one-year experiment"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Taverner]

23. Wasn't the GGB toll originally only for a six-month to one-year experiment

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. Toll ends at 6:30? Gridlock starts 6:31.

As the article points out, correctly.

I lived and worked in SF from 1999 to 2005.
Commute from San Mateo area ( I worked from 7 to 3 ) was too long for a bicycle, too slow for a bus, parking at BART was more expensive (if you could find a parking place at all) than I could afford a month, and in town parking anywhere the primary job site was a perk reserved for only the CEO and his hangers on.
I did manage to find ways to zip into the city and find "cheap parking", since i needed the car for job related duties, but it was a hassle and a strain every single day just to get to and from work. Mostly it involved
driving into the city, parking in all day spot, ( but moving the car on street sweeper day )
catching a bus or cable car or BART to where I needed to go that day, rinse, repeat.
.
Walking for 10 blocks smelling the urine and feces in the gutters was an added treat.

I think BART/bus/Cable car would be much more enjoyable in a less populated, congested town.
But SF is 7 x 7 miles in area, wall to wall houses and people. Pop. is around 850,000 but commuters
add another 300,000.

If you are on work schedule, getting around is an huge effort.
Bart is good when it runs on schedule, but most embarkation points entail a long wait for a bus if you cannot park at the stations.
19th street( runs south to north in SF on the West side, is wall to wall cars all day and half the night, literally.

I can see that to penalize people who are forced to enter/leave the city ( this includes the commuters from Oakland) will backfire big time. Not to mention the 15 million annual visitors.

[snooper2]

13. They got to pay for the "no toys in meals" enforcers somehow

:rofl:

[nolabear]

15. LOL--I misread it as "trolls".

[slackmaster]

19. Damn, I also read that last word as "trolls" at first

[mulsh]

24. good for SF we in the east bay and marin have paid tolls for years

it's about time free loading south bay residents start pulling their weight. of course you could always stay in san jose, that town's thriving from what I hear.

Seriously I have no problem with tolls being charged on either of the peninsula's freeway in order to enter SF. The tolls on both the Golden Gate and Bay bridges were supposed to go away in the 1960's once the construction costs were paid. Miraculously only the tolls to leave SF went away on those bridges. weird, huh?

[Gormy Cuss]

26. They should stop referring to the highways as "freeways" with all of the toll plans around the state

They're becoming toll roads.

The idea that there would be a toll to enter the city from San Mateo is really silly unless they also erect tolls for entry off of the GG and Bay bridges, since the bridge toll isn't payed to the city.

[cyr330]

32. THANK GOD I don't drive!!!

We have relatively good public transportation here in SF, so driving is more of a luxury than a necessity. And besides, it cost a lot of $$ to rent a garage and to keep up a car, not to mention the shitty traffic and the awful parking situation.

[w4rma]

37. Regressive. (nt)

[Creative]

39. If drive your car, I'll tax the street;

If you try to sit, I’ll tax your seat;
If you get too cold, I’ll tax the heat;
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

[cyr330]

46. I actually feel privileged to pay taxes.

I can afford to. I have a job. I like the benefits that taxes bring. I certainly do NOT think that taxes are necessarily a bad or evil thing. We could all probably afford to pay more, as tax rates are the lowest now since the Eisenhower administration. The rich can CERTAINLY afford to pay a LOT more.

[Creative]

52. Are you rich?

[Art_from_Ark]

53. It's the taxman, yeah, yeah, it's the taxman

And you're working for no one but me

[BanTheGOP]

40. Couple this with making public transportation low cost or even free

They need to couple this with making public transportation truly "public", in the sense that it does not cost the average person anything. I'm good with taxing car owners for this privilege, as well as implementing more wealth taxes on the rich. If we are to remain faithful to our socialist progressive roots, we MUST stop the republicanist insistence on polluting our planet with automobile emissions.

Think past the selfish box, people!

[cyr330]

48. They did something like this in Portland, OR

All public transportation within the downtown area is free, meaning you can hop on and off in the vicinity of downtown WITHOUT paying.

[hayu_lol]

50. Instead of banning Happy Meals...

the powers-that-be should have just taxed them.

[cyr330]

58. It really doesn't affect the City of SF

As there are almost NO fast food outlets within the city limits anyway.

[pinniped]

54. Fucking loony board of stupidvisors strike again.

Pilot program my ass.

These looney fucks already know what public reaction will be. Are we supposed to thank them for the privilege of forking more money over to these greedy, inept fucks at city hall?

Someone keeps stealing my license plates.

Fuck you.