Officials: Deputy Shocks Girl, 11, With Taser At Elementary School

[Hugabear]

Source: WCPX

An Orange County sheriff's deputy on Thursday shocked an 11-year-old girl with a Taser gun at an elementary school after the girl punched her in the face, authorities said.
...
The teacher approached Jiminez, but the 11-year-old ignored the teacher and walked to her homeroom class, according to the sheriff's office.
...
The school resource officer, Orange County sheriff's Deputy Donna Hudepohl was called to remove Jiminez, who pushed Hudepohl and punched her in the face, causing her nose to bleed, according to the sheriff's office.

Hudepohl attempted to secure Jiminez, but she continued to fight, so Hudepohl shocked her with her Taser gun, the sheriff's office said.

Read more: http://www.local6.com/news/15721677/detail.html

---

Sorry, but there is NO fucking reason to EVER use a taser on an elementary school student. I don't think you're going to find many people who will say that the student shouldn't have been removed from the school. But TASERING the girl? Sorry, but if you can't handle elementary school students without having to resort to your taser, then you have no business working as a law enforcement officer. Bratty kids have been around a lot longer than tasers, there have to be alternate methods.

[selador]

1. rubbish

"Sorry, but there is NO fucking reason to EVER use a taser on an elementary school student."

there are plenty of reasons. a physically assaultive subject who punches you hard enough in the nose to cause sinus damage etc. is most DEFINITELY a reason.

not to mention that statistically speaking, the assaultive subject is less likely to be injured in a case like that from a tase, then from an officer trying to wrestle them into custody.

"I don't think you're going to find many people who will say that the student shouldn't have been removed from the school. "

well, once she punched the officer, the issue wasn't REMOVING her, it was arresting her for a felony

"But TASERING the girl? Sorry, but if you can't handle elementary school students without having to resort to your taser, then you have no business working as a law enforcement officer. Bratty kids have been around a lot longer than tasers, there have to be alternate methods."

there ARE alternate methods, but tasers are part of the use of force continuum and appear in this case to be justified.

fwiw, i've arrested scores of elementary and high school students and haven't tased one yet.

of course i haven't had one punch me in the nose yet, either.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hugabear]

4. I think you just helped prove my point

You say that you've arrested scores of elementary and high school students without being punched.

Maybe it's how you went about it, maybe you were able to diffuse the situation before it got to that point?

[selador]

5. correct

but not EVERY situation is defusable.

you don't HEAR about the numerous of kids arrested WITHOUT the taser. you don't hear about all the defused cases. how many scores or even hundreds of elementary kids were arrested without being tased in that week? tons. you hear about the ones like this that "went bad". it doesn't follow that there was some kind of loose cannon non-defusing cop in the case.
you hear about it WHEN the taser was used

see: selection bias.

what is clear is that the kid punched the cop in the nose (not to mention the crap she was doing beforehand), committed a violent felony, etc.

and CLEARLY somebody who has gone far enough to punch a cop in the nose is generally NOT going to gently into that good night.

the last time i was hit in the nose was by a spracked out meth addict. he kicked me in the nose. i didn't tase him. i struck him multiple times with a baton. and the justification wasn't questioned by him or anybody else.

fwiw, we didn't even have tasers back then.

[Judi Lynn]

28. You're bound to catch them off guard if you produce a baton! My God!

However, the idea of establishing a light tone, treating the matter as if you were an actual adult, not fighting for your very life itself against a child seems a great solution!

It's GOOD to have an overview and not put yourself first.

[Mountainman]

6. What did they do before the taser was available? Why not do that instead.

I think we should outlaw the taser. Too many bad cops have them.

[selador]

9. usually

a baton was used (hint: if somebody punches you, you are definitely justified to use a baton, as have i in similar circs)
heck, a baton doesn't even need somebody to punch you, but that is more than enough justification for a baton

hint: a baton is much much more likely to result in injury or death than a taser

(not to mention a taser has never conclusively been determined to be the primary cause of death but that's another topic).

a cop COULD try to wrestle the kid into cuffs - which also results in injury quite frequently to both cop and suspect. i've seen a few broken bones in similar cases during such scuffles.

heck, the last time i was at a tasing, there were several cops injured even WHEN the guy was tased.

and statistically speaking, agencies that have employed tasers have seen REDUCTION in suspect injuries, cop injuries, suspect deaths, etc.

[Mountainman]

22. not to mention a taser has never conclusively been determined to be the primary cause of death

Are you kidding? Someone is tasered, in a few seconds or minutes they die. I would hold the person doing the tasing for at least manslaughter.

[selador]

29. you can hold them for mopery if you want

i repeat. im not going to get into discussion of excited delirium, in custody deaths, etc. unless you first arm YOURSELF with facts.

i repeat my claim.

fwiw, i volunteered to be tased. i KNOW how safe it is.

people have died AFTER being wrestled to the ground, after being scared by a gunshot, and after a foot pursuit merely from the running/exhaustion

it doesn't make any of those things unreasonable force.

unlike you, i don't hold people for crimes they didn't commit.

[TheWraith]

7. If you can't take a punch from an ELEVEN YEAR OLD GIRL...

...Then you don't belong on the police force. Period. What would happen if you had to actually tangle with somebody your own size? You don't always have the luxury of electroshock weaponry at your disposal.

[selador]

10. again dumb assumptions

you don't have any idea what the "size" of the suspect was vs. the cop.

nor does an 11 yr girl automatically mean a "girlie punch" but sexism duly noted.

read the frigging article. the cop had to go to the hospital etc.

so, apparently it was a pretty good punch

sorry, but a punch to the nose is a CLASSIC justification for a taser. less is required than that.

[TheWraith]

15. No sexism involved: an 11 year old girl is going to be smaller and weaker than any adult.

Particularly a cop, who should be expected to be in good shape.

As to the cop, do you really think that being sent to the hospital was much more than a formality?

My point stands: putting 50,000 volts through a pre-teen because they had a tantrum and punched you is unreasonable. Tasers are dangerous weapons, and can cause permanent damage or even death without any warning. Using them casually, like a remote control to induce compliance, is irresponsible. Police always talk about the taser as an alternative to deadly force, but some people seem to view it as an alternative to the old-fashioned ways of doing their job with minimal harm to the civilians.

[selador]

17. not true

it is not vtrue that they are going to smaller and weaker than any adult.

they MAY be. but those facts are not in evidence. the idea that a cop should expect ot be in good shape sadly is also not true. trust me on this, our unions (generally) have fought all sorts of fitness standards, let alone strength standards (which are also seen as problematic towards female cops. ).

all i know agbout this cop is she was a female. i don't know if she was a competitive kickboxer like my wife, or somebody 4'6 and 90 lbs. nor do you.
you are assuming.

regardless, i do not (nor do you, or any cop) have to forego use of taser (or a baton which also would have been justified) merely because the assaultive subject is 11, or female.

gender is irrelevant. as it should be. equal treatment under the law.

taser is NOT an alternative to deadly force. it is a MUCH lower level of force. check any use of force continuum

but if you just glom on to the fact of 1) 11 yr 2) female and assume that using a taser on such a subject is presumptively unreasonable, then facts are going to convince you.

your opinion is inconsistent with dept. policies, case law, constitutional law, criminal law, and the right of the officer to defend herself

[odelisk8]

21. ok

what IS known?

let's see

ANOTHER 11 yr old, you know, a MINOR - CLAIMS - that another 11 yr old pushed her into traffic so dense she escaped without injury....

a teacher based on this one account approaches the girl...

the girl acts obnoxiously, IGNORES the teacher and goes into her class...

the girl is then approached by her homeroom teacher...how did the teachers treat her? we dont know...

the girl spits...or rather is ACCUSED of spitting...seeing as how none of us were there...and upturns her chair and desk...

she is then approached by a police officer...allegedly punches said office and is tased...

however BIG this girl is, she is ELEVEN yrs old mentally, and from the sounds of it, even younger...

the ONLY conclusion that I can draw is that this is one VERY lousy school...

so hands up, who thinks a CHILD who is obviously unstable should be SHOCKED WITH ELECTRICAL CHARGES because she goes to a school obviously run by unqualified nitwits?

and i WAS a teacher briefly...in all grades kindergarten - 12...this was handled VERY VERY poorly...

[selador]

27. the issue

is given the fact pattern presented, specificallyt the nose punch- was the tasing justified.

you are viewing the taser as a punitive measure, iow did she "deserve it" etc.

needless to say this kid was completely out of control, and committed a felonious assault (ATFPIT -Assuming The Fact Pattern is True)

you do NOT know it was handled poorly.

you are using a logical fallacy. BEcAUSE the school (and cop) were unable to control the kid, therefore the school and cop handled it poorly.

that's a logical fallacy.

fwiw, i've arrested dozens of juvies around that age. never had to tase one. never had one punch me either.

ATFPIT a tasing was entirely justified

[odelisk8]

31. nothing fallacious about it

if the school couldn't handle the CHILD without resorting to frying her, then i just wonder what the definition of a working school has BEEN for the last oh 1000 yrs...

now then...perhaps the girl was large...

perhaps not...but this is March...if the teachers didn't know how to handle this girl by now without her blowing up...yeah, they suck at their jobs...after all, all we have is an accusation from a student who apparently suffered NO injuries...

odds are she isn't some mastermind diabolical genius who has been biding her time just waiting to explode all this time...she is ELEVEN YRS OLD...

so i say, yeah, any school that finds it necessary to tase disruptive students age 11...that school SUCKS and i would never send my child there if i could help it...

now...all details are not known...i dont think the police DEFINITELY did something wrong...the only thing i can think of to make this alright would be if this girl had no history of this behavior...i find that hard to believe...but it MAY be true...but if she DID have a history and the teachers were provoking her...they were endangering the well being of their OTHER STUDENTS....

the whole thing smells to me...

[Not a robought]

34. A punch?

sorry, but a punch to the nose is a CLASSIC justification for a taser. less is required than that.

If it was a punch then yes, it's punitive as what else was there to defend against?

Where is the bar set where 'less is required than that' for the use of a taser in your training?

edit: spelling

[selador]

36. it;s not PUNITIVE

the point is that the force must be prportional to the crime, the threat, the action take by the suspect etc.

many agencies place taser at the "hard empty hand" level.

batons, fwiw are usually a significantly higher level

batons are authorized in most agencies when a person strikes you, and/or threatens to strike you and takes some sort of bladed stance, clenched fists, etc.

the point is proportionality, and the use of force continuum.

[tblue37]

24. I have an 11-year-old friend who is an inch taller than I am, and

both very athletic and a lot stronger than I (I am 5'3"). (I think it must be all that Wonder bread they get fed.)

I don't know enough about this incident to have an opinion on whether the Taser was appropriate. I have a big problem with the way Tasers are generally used, though. In fact, I collect stories about the abuse of Tasers and other examples of police brutality. But I have to say, you must not assume that 11-year-old girl was significantly smaller than the cop, or necessarily a little weakling. If she were not a nice kid, my 11-year-old friend could seriously kick my ass.

[Scairp]

18. There's a much bigger issue here

What is going on with this 11 year old girl that she would push another kid into traffic, ignore teacher instructions, become violent with the teachers and then go after a cop who tried to remove her from the classroom? Sounds like she needs to be in a psychiatric facility to figure out why she flipped out. When I was 11 I was afraid of everyone, no way I would have disobeyed a teacher, let alone a cop, but then, there were no cops in schools when I was in elementary school.

[khaos]

25. there shouldn't be cops in elementary schools

unless of course, they are there to learn something which for most cops isn't such a bad idea..

[khaos]

23. why not just shoot her?

start using your brain robot.

[colonel odis]

42. you say you've arrested scores of kids like you're bragging.

arrest an 11 year old for a felony?

bullshit. if that's how you really feel, then you're part of the problem with law enforcement these days.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. If only I had a taser in Elementary School...

Darrin Dzuba would've ended up on his ASS when he slugged me for my pie!:rofl:

Seriously, Law Enforcement has gotten a bit taser-happy...:thumbsdown:

[fascisthunter]

8. Hey Man... Ya Crack Down on These Kids These Days

They are out of control! I mean come on.... what if she picked up a trash can lid or something and raised it in a threatening manner? :sarcasm:

[Judi Lynn]

30. What about a banana? (Monty Python)

".....How to defend yourself against a man armed with a banana. Now you, come at me with this banana. Catch! Now, it's quite simple to defend yourself against a man armed with a banana. First of all you force him to drop the banana; then, second, you eat the banana, thus disarming him. You have now rendered him 'elpless."

http://www.jumpstation.ca/recroom/comedy/python/banana.html

You Tube: How to Defend Against Fresh Fruit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w

[fascisthunter]

43. lol

:silly:

[Joanne98]

11. FIRE HER!

[selador]

13. sure

fire somebody who apparently used reasonable justifiable force.

let's ignore due process, labor rights, right of self-defense, etc.

it's a witch hunt here on DU. let's get her. she's EVIL!!

[McCamy Taylor]

12. Why is her name released if she is 11 and a juvie? Is that legal?

I realize they wanted us to know that she has a Latino surname, but I thought juveniles had a right to remain anonymous. Can't her parents sue now?

[selador]

14. yes, it is legal

s 39.045 fla statute

http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/printview/EDECD48C00E94E1E8525622100633481

If a juvenile is arrested for a felony, the recent amendments to chapter 39, Florida Statutes, which reflect a legislative intent to make more information regarding juvenile crime available to the public, permit a law enforcement agency or a criminal justice agency to release the law enforcement agency's crime or arrest report or to disclose other information regarding the crime.

During the 1994 session, the Florida Legislature redirected the focus regarding the treatment of juvenile offenders under Florida law. Many of the protections formerly extended to serious juvenile offenders because of their age have been removed or lessened.<1> The significance of this change is reflected in the Legislature's creation of a new state agency, the Department of Juvenile Justice, that is responsible for the planning, coordination and management of all programs within the juvenile justice system.<2>

Under Florida law, crime and police reports regarding crime have been a matter of public record.<3> With limited exceptions, however, the identity of a juvenile who committed a crime has been protected.<4> With the enactment of Chapter 94-209, Laws of Florida, an omnibus juvenile justice reform measure, the Legislature has amended the confidentiality provisions relating to juvenile offenders to allow for greater public dissemination of information. The clear goal of the Legislature was to establish the public's right to obtain information about persons who commit serious offenses, regardless of age. The new focus is on the serious nature of the offense, and the Legislature has plainly indicated that it no longer wishes to uniformly shield the identity of those charged with serious offenses simply because of their age.

Section 39.045(9), Florida Statutes, as amended, reflects such an intent by creating a distinction between a juvenile arrested for a felony (or convicted of three or more misdemeanors) and a juvenile arrested for a lesser offense. The statute now provides for greater dissemination of information contained in law enforcement records regarding juvenile offenders arrested for serious offenses. As of October 1, 1994, section 39.045(9), Florida Statutes, states that

"a law enforcement agency may release for publication the name, photograph, and address of a child taken into custody if the child has been taken into custody by a law enforcement officer for a violation of law which, if committed by an adult, would be a felony, or the name, photograph, and address of any child who has been found by a court to have committed three or more violations of law which, if committed by an adult, would be misdemeanors."

Nothing in section 39.045(9), Florida Statutes, as amended, displays an intent to erode a law enforcement agency's ability to report on crime. The traditional confidentiality provisions of Chapter 39, Florida Statutes, were intended to protect the identity of juveniles. With the amendment of section 39.045(9), Florida Statutes, the Legislature has determined that the public must be informed of serious juvenile crime. Neither purpose, however, is served by reading the statute in such a manner that permits a law enforcement agency to release only the name, address, and photograph of a juvenile charged with a serious offense but no other information regarding the offense or arrest.

To read the language of section 39.045(9), as amended, as requiring a law enforcement agency to excise all information in its reports about a crime except for the name, address, and photograph of a juvenile charged with a felony or to create a new report containing only the name, address, and photograph of such a juvenile with no information as to the nature of the crime would produce an unreasonable and absurd result.<5>

Legislative intent is the polestar by which construction of a statute must be guided and this intent must be given effect.<6> The changes to section 39.045(9), which recognize that the serious nature of the crime should govern a law enforcement agency's release of its records concerning juvenile offenders, reflect the intent of the Legislature to make it clear that law enforcement agencies are no longer required to withhold identifying information contained in their records about a juvenile charged with a felony.

Accordingly, I am of the opinion that if a juvenile is arrested for a felony, the recent amendments to chapter 39, Florida Statutes, which reflect a legislative intent to make more information regarding juvenile crime available to the public, permit a law enforcement agency to release its crime or arrest report or to disclose information regarding the crime. This conclusion would appear to be equally applicable when such law enforcement records have been transmitted to and are in the hands of the a criminal justice agency such as the Department of Juvenile Justice.<7>

To the extent that any previous opinions of this office may be inconsistent with the conclusions herein, they are hereby modified. In light of the uncertainty that has been expressed by the law enforcement community, however, it may be advisable for the Legislature to clarify these issues.

Sincerely,



Robert A. Butterworth
Attorney General

[odelisk8]

16. so

so, an ELEVEN YR OLD is tased for doing things that i have heard and seen eleven yr olds do numerous times growing up...and that's just fine is it?

um, there are POLICE in the SCHOOLS...that makes them JAILS...

this country is doomed...

paging Ice-T....

[Shadowsmith]

20. Sorry

I have to disagree. I admit there is abuse of tasers going on, but tasers are useful. In this case it sounds like use of a taser was the right thing to do.

You have an eleven year old so out of control she assaults a police officer. You have no way to know what, if any, training she has had or what, if any, drugs she is on. She needs to be controlled either by using overwhelming physical force or by use of a taser. The taser is less likely to cause lasting physical harm than a baton.

The fact that there are police in schools doesn't make them jails. We have violent crimes taking place in schools. Until the social factors that leads to this violence are corrected, we have three choices. One, we can ignore the violence and hope it goes away. Two, we can attempt to control it via use of the police. Three, we can shut down public schools.

[odelisk8]

26. i direct you

to my post at 21 for rebuttal...

i would wait until we see a picture of how large this girl was before we acquit the police officer...seeing as how the girl is already deemed guilty here without trial and been shocked with a taser...

a child...

gotta love it...

[selador]

41. the issue isn't whether she is 'guilty'

her OR the cop

the issue was - was the force reasonable based on the fact pattern presented.

it was

[1monster]

32. You got that right. I'm in the schools every day, and things that used to get

kids a couple days of dention, or at the worst a three day suspension now gets a kid 10 days suspension, a term in an "alternative discipline school," and arrested with as many charges as can be thrown at the kids.

I could site several cases that I have been personally involved in where the presence of a deputy permanently on the school grounds has resulted in criminal charges for ridiculously trival incidences. But, for the sake of my privacy and the privacy of others involved, I won't. I can say that those incidences make me sick.

I HATE, LOATHE, ABHOR, and DISPISE having cops in the school. The schools are no longer schools. They are holding cells. It might be necessary in areas where there are competing gangs in the schools, but I'm not sure even about that.

(P.S. to the law enforcement officer above... Supposedly, the adult cop is smarter than the eleven year old kid. She should have been able to keep from getting punched in the face and managed to control the kid without tazing her. They have classes in Florida to teach the teachers how to take down and restrain emotionally handicapped kids (some are a lot older and bigger than an eleven year old girl) without getting hurt themselves or hurting the kid. Law enforcement officers can't manage to learn those same techniques?)

[selador]

40. i actually agree with much of this

i think cops in school is a sucky idea.

i think DARE is a total joke

but the force in this case appears justified.

[PSPS]

19. They're dragging the bottom of the barrel to hire a "cop" who can be bested by an 11-year-old

As is sadly usual, we have at least one brutality-defending poster on here who apparently thinks everything is just fine with this.

This 'cop' is obviously nothing but window dressing whose mere presence is intended to terrorize the kids into accepting their lot in life: an obedient subject in bushler's police state.

Of course, this charlatan 'cop' should be immediately fired and charged with battery of a minor. If I were that kid's parent, I'd find out where the cop lived and teach them a lesson they'd never forget.

[superconnected]

33. Next people will be supporting tazing 8 year olds then 6 year olds

and using the kids being violent as justification.

I got news for you, I worked in a day care once and we had tons on violent two year olds who would punch you if they didn't get their way.

Shocking people for punching does not seem the answer. Shocking someone before they kill someone, now that's justifiable. This cop apparently will shock everyone she runs into no matter how old, mentally disabled etc. It's her crutch. She does it for her saftey and criminal be damned. I guess considering she's being allowed to be a cop we should all thank god she didn't shoot the kid, cause honestly that woman would use being hit as justification to kill someone. and so would the other cop on this thread. Pathetic and deadly. I wish their badges could be removed.

When I worked at a police dept (In computer area) cops were trained how to arrest people who were resisting using body moves. They didn't see a need to pull a gun and shoot the person, or taz them for that matter. Resisting arrest meant calling for backup if they couldn't handle the person.

[selador]

39. resisting

"This cop apparently will shock everyone she runs into no matter how old, mentally disabled etc."

not supproted by evidence

" It's her crutch."

ditto

" She does it for her saftey and criminal be damned"

ditto

". I guess considering she's being allowed to be a cop we should all thank god she didn't shoot the kid, cause honestly that woman would use being hit as justification to kill someone. and so would the other cop on this thread. Pathetic and deadly. I wish their badges could be removed. "

bigotry noted. fwiw, i've carried a taser for over 2 yuears, and been a cop for over 20. i've never tased anybody, made arrests for everything from murder on down the line, been in shootouts, etc.

but i should be "removed" because i don't agree with your ignorant understanding (lack thereof) of use of force.

"When I worked at a police dept (In computer area) cops were trained how to arrest people who were resisting using body moves."

she wasn't just resisting arrest. she committed a violent felony

[nvme]

35. i am surprised

that the officer had no self defense skills. obviously the the child in question got a lucky blow. I agree that legally it is justifiable to use a taser. It is however, morally reprehensible when a weapon is
used on a child. I think it was severe bad judgment on the officers part. If the kid had a knife or some weapon, I would find it acceptable.

[selador]

38. action/reaction

generally speaking - action is faster than reaction.

not in evidence that the officer had NO SELF DEFENSE SKILLS.

generally speakinmg, tasers are at the hard empty hand level on the use of force continuum

in this case, easily justified.

if the kid had a knife, a gun would be authroized which is the highest level of force

[Pastiche423]

37. Our taxes pay for Deputy Donna Hudepohl

I do not want to pay for incompetents. It's time to take away the cop's tazers and use the money to educate them on how to do their jobs w/o causing more violence.

If Deputy Donna Hudepohl can't or won't do her job professionally, then fire her ass.