Fla. doctor investigated in badly botched abortion

[Ohio Joe]

Source: The Buffalo News

Eighteen and pregnant, Sycloria Williams went to an abortion clinic outside Miami and paid $1,200 for Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique to terminate her 23-week pregnancy.

Three days later, she sat in a reclining chair, medicated to dilate her cervix and otherwise get her ready for the procedure.

Only Renelique didn't arrive in time. According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health, she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl.

What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate: One of the clinic's owners, who has no medical license, cut the infant's umbilical cord. Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.



Read more: http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/570428.html

---

I'm most definitly pro-choice but if this is true they really need to press charges.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

1. I smell bullshit. -nt

[musette_sf]

2. me too n/t

[Zuiderelle]

3. Ditto! Very aromatic bullshit.

[Fridays Child]

8. Second that. n/t

[EFerrari]

22. Have the air freshner out. n/t

[Megahurtz]

37. Full On.

Pro-Life Bullshit.

[defendandprotect]

82. 95.5% of abortions take place before 15 weeks -- restrictions on 2nd/3rd trimester abortions ....

Only in the third trimester was the state's interest in protecting the potential life of the fetus great enough to warrant severe restrictions on abortion, and even then, the Court held, states must permit abortions to save a woman's life

I think also rape, incest -- severe damage to fetus -- are all understandable exceptions.

This is an obvious case of mishandling -- and we have no idea of what the reasons might have
been.

There are many legitimate reasons for third trimester terminations. And many restrictions on
them. Women who had wanted pregnancies often find themselves in this position and there was
very enlightening testimony by these women a few years ago. Women naturally want to protect
their ability to have children in the future - delivering these babies -- some with greatly
enlarged heads and other problems - could create severe damage to the female.


Body Politic Article V07 N01, P21
Third Trimester Termination Procedures ... 95.5% of abortions take place before 15 weeks. ... In New York state, such approval is very rarely given. ...www.publiceye.org/body_politic/mag/back/art/0701pg21.htm - Cached

http://www.answers.com/topic/roe-v-wade

Roe vs Wade -- on third trimester . . .

After finding that the case was not moot despite the fact that there had been no time to secure a decision before the opportunity for obtaining an abortion had passed, Blackmun's opinion acknowledged that states had some valid interests in regulating abortion. The opinion divided pregnancy into three periods, or trimesters. During the first trimester the woman had an essentially unrestricted right to choose abortion in consultation with her physician; thus, Blackmun held, the hospitalization and committee requirements of the more “liberal” state laws were unconstitutional. During the second trimester, when according to medical experts abortion posed a greater threat to a woman's health, states could regulate abortion to protect her health. Only in the third trimester was the state's interest in protecting the potential life of the fetus great enough to warrant severe restrictions on abortion, and even then, the Court held, states must permit abortions to save a woman's life. In the course of this analysis, Blackmun's opinion stated that because of uncertainty about the medical and moral status of the fetus, the states could not adopt a particular theory of when life begins—they could not decide, for example, that because life begins at conception fetuses have the same rights as newborn infants.

[WriteDown]

4. 23 weeks?

Ugh, you've got a child that can actually be born at that point. I'm all for prosecuting the dr., but can't say any of this looks good.

[Ian David]

7. 23 weeks is well past The Sagan Barrier. n/t

[JayMusgrove]

11. That's what they call it? "The Sagan Barrier" in other words viability outside the womb? NT

[Ian David]

13. The point at which the lungs can draw oxygen on their own without intervention.

It's the point at which Carl Sagan said he believed abortion became immoral.

[JayMusgrove]

19. Ah Thanks! n/t

[Megahurtz]

39. The Girl Went in for an Abortion!

Hello!

Prosecuting my Ass!

[superconnected]

51. So she went in for an abortion. What happend was a baby was born early term and killed, not aborted.

When a baby is born and then killed, its usually murder.

Hopefully this isn't a true story. I am a supporter of women having the right to get abortions, so don't go there.

[Megahurtz]

58. Duplicate. n/t

[Megahurtz]

59. Well I'm There.

The girl intended to have an Abortion, therefore I don't see it as murder, and because of that I don't believe that the System should butt their noses in.
The Doctor fucked up by not showing up, she needs to hash that out with him. Many here are going with the Right-Wingish "live viable baby" argument.

The focus should be on her intention of Abortion which she had every right to choose to do. Not the "Omg the poor baby thing". :eyes:

Doesn't anyone know their boundaries???

[Hugabear]

74. I guess they think the girl should have been forced to raise a child she didn't want

I'm with you. Freedom of choice means exactly that, even if it makes someone else uncomfortable. The doctor in this story did what he was contracted for. Which is the termination of a pregnancy.

[WriteDown]

78. Got to be a line....

So if you're pregnant for 10 months does that mean you have an extra month to get an abortion? Why can't you bash a child's head in with a hammer before its one year birthday? It's brain isn't completely formed yet. There is always a line, just depends on how you want to draw it.

[cannabis_flower]

75. You know..

while I understand the legal distinctions. I really don't understand the moral distinctions. Does a baby in the womb have less consciousness than a baby that was just born? If it is moral to abort the baby at this point, how different is it to take this life when it is out of the womb. I'm pro-choice and I understand the legal distinction but I'm just not too upset about this employee's actions.

[renate]

5. i'm pro-choice too but this is horrific

:cry:

[Megahurtz]

66. What's Horrific is

that the Doctor didn't show up to do his job.

[superconnected]

91. I think most people consider a child born and breathing a life.

However a pregnancy - (even the same child) - as not born yet so not as amoral to terminate.

If the doctor waited, I dunno, 3 years, and then killed the kid, is that okay with you too?

Let's not forget that it's legal to terminate pregnancys and thats called an abortion. After it was born it was no longer pregnancy and the chick lost her rights - she's not carrying any baby inside her now so no abortion necessary.

At the point it's born - it's murder. It's no longer the mothers rights over her body, the kid is separated already.

Now go try killing a 5 yo and explaining how you were actually planning to get an abortion while you were pregnant so this is the same thing.It won't work because the rest of us will consider it murder.

[Ian David]

6. If this is true, then the "doctor" and the unlicensed owner need to be charged with murder. n/t

[zogtheobvious]

18. Yes. If.

If. If true, they should be prosecuted and thrown in jail. Let their fellow inmates do the rest.

I will admit that my jaw dropped when I first read this, but it really does sound like Right-Wing bullshit. Those cocksuckers have never, ever hesitated to use disinformation to further their own ideals; nevermind the fact that if you have to lie to support your opinion, your opinion's credibility is destroyed before you ever voice it.

[superconnected]

49. I agree. If it's true.

[JeanGrey]

62. Why do so many doubt this? This happened back in the 70's

to my husband's little sister. She was 23-24 weeks at an abortion clinic in Atlanta and they told me the doctor doesn't come unless there is an "emergency". They start labor, dilate cervix and then you usually give birth to a dead baby. If you don't, well, they toss it. She had a girl. It was horrible. I still have nightmares about it.

[Ian David]

68. He also turned her into a newt.

[DoctorMyEyes]

9. This happened in 2006?

This story just doesn't seem right.

[JayMusgrove]

10. 23 weeks, almost at the end of 2'nd trimester? What's going on here?

What is the law in the state of FL for legally terminating an abortion in the final weeks of the second trimester?

What is the medically necessary requirement for the termination? Was there a sonagram done? What the fetus viable outside the womb? (many are at that age).

Where was the usual and customary care for the mother and fetus in this clinic? And why is this clinic still open pending an investigation?

I am sure there are isolated examples of bad medicine practiced in ALL types of medical clinics and facilities in this nation, not only in obstetrics.

On has to ask why this incident is getting so well publicized. Perhaps, to warn the public of an incompetent medical practice in FL, which is fine. Let's just make sure such clinics are shut down quickly and permanently.

Criminal charges can follow later, obviously improper care was given this mother and fetus, and the public needs to know that this is, IF all true, an isolated incident, against which the legal authorities will respond appropriately and swiftly.

MOO

[marshall]

47. 2nd trimester goes all the way up to 27 weeks

Florida law allows only for restrictions to abortions in the third trimester, so this abortion if it weren't botched would have been perfectly legal.

The procedure seems to be that the labor is induced by a nurse or some assistant, then the doctor arrives to terminate the fetus before the expulsion from the womb. It seems in this case like the doctor was delayed for some reason and the fetus was born alive and the cord cut--at which time it presumably becomes a full fledged person.

So there are two issues at play here--the doctor could be sued for malpractice for not being in the room to attend to his duties, and whoever disposed of the living fetus could be prosecuted for--whatever they want to call it.

[slackmaster]

12. Wow, what a clusterfuck

:argh:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

14. Everything about this story is wrong -

if she was that far along, a whole different set of rules should have been observed in order to terminate the pregnancy.

It was a long time ago, but I ended up taking part in a second-trimester abortion for a fellow law student. It had to be done in a hospital, because the procedure was a whole lot more than a dilation and evacuation; she needed, because she had indicated that she was married, her husband's signature; and it took an overnight stay in the hospital for her to be back on her feet again.

She was my law school classmate. Her husband had had a vasectomy some years earlier. She had been dicking around with one of the lawyers on the Mayor's staff. Another law student friend of our filled in as her "husband" and signed the consent form. He and I took her to the hospital and waited to see that she was all right.

The next day we picked her up and brought her home - her husband had been of town.

I realized that I hated her. It shocked me, a totally pro-choice American, but what she did made me feel like I'd colluded in the murder of another human being.

We never spoke of it, and after graduation, none of us stayed in touch.

[JayMusgrove]

15. Your story is much more reasonable than this press release..and yet

you felt a lot more emotion than this article indicates the mother felt. Yet your friend got good medical care, you can be happy about that.

There's just too much bull crap, or Buffalo crap in this AP article in a Buffalo paper. IMO

A lot just doesn't add up. IMO

[Tangerine LaBamba]

16. I agree

I'd like to know more about the 18-year-old and what her story is.

The physician, though - that's a shady event right there.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue_Tires]

90. yeesh...that marraige had all sorts of latent issues...

[chollybocker]

17. * cough * Never * cough * happened.

"Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique." Right.

[Blue_Tires]

89. the real name is probably Peter Joe-Jack Renshaw or something

[Freddie Stubbs]

95. You obviously don't have many Haitians in your area:

http://ww2.doh.state.fl.us/imageappnet/repository/smbpsi55re04cvzlemj2tt45/smbpsi55re04cvzlemj2tt45.pdf

[Still Sensible]

20. I say charge the doctor with murder

at the very least negligent homicide. Removing his license is a no brainer. This is incredible. Was there nobody else there with any conscience whatsoever?

[Hugabear]

73. That sounds like right-wing bullshit

IF this story is true, then the doctor performed the service that was paid for, which is an abortion.

[Still Sensible]

76. Sorry, if the child was born alive

as the story says, no abortion was performed.

[DoctorMyEyes]

21. Okay - I think this started with World Net Daily

and we all know how freakin' crazy they are. They published a story in 2006 and it sounds embellished to me. Now, nearly three years later some pro-life group has filed a civil suit against the clinic and doctor. I could be wrong (it happens! lol) but I'm thinking that if there haven't been any criminal charges in the last TWO AND A HALF YEARS that this shit didn't happen like it's being described in these articles.

It looks like a lot of news agencies are quoting each other and this pro-life group and the original source for all of it is World Net Daily.


I call bullshit.

edited to correct years. Nearly three years ago - not two.

[JayMusgrove]

25. Yeah, I agree. I think this is a ginned up press release by someone at AP

for something that is trying to get some donations to go sue this doctor, after the facts and discovery is all over...and there were no criminal charges.... someone wants a civil liability suit here... and is fanning the media flames to inflame a jury pool.

[JayMusgrove]

23. OMG Fixed Noise AKA Fox News is running with this article

http://health.blogs.foxnews.com/tag/dr-pierre-jean-jacque-renelique/

[lynne]

24. AP is running this, too. Sounds legit, IMO.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jJYykrsdytHiypY5WXf0A7AAY5MAD965JKE00

[JayMusgrove]

26. But see the dates, and posts upthread about the timeline and World Nut Daily n/t

[DoctorMyEyes]

27. AP is parroting

AP doesn't provide any background and simply made a phone call to the DRs attorney. Basically, all they've done is confirm that there is a civil suit. No one has been indicted for a crime. As far as I can tell no one is being investigated for a crime. And I think we can all agree that killing a baby that's born alive is certainly a crime.

Who did the autopsy? Where is it? How credible is the mother? A series of "anonymous tips"? Puhleeze... This stinks, I don't care who chooses to pass it on/repeat it.

[POR]

28. Strawman alert!!! Strawman Alert!!!

My wife and I had three premature deliveries that were all in the 20 - 24 week window. None of our babies survived. This is a hoax. It is a straw man set up to show the grotesqueries of late term abortions.

A woman at that point would have to go through a full fledged delivery, just like if she were deivering a live baby. Drugs given to induce labor and combined with the fact that the young woman did not deliver in a NICU (Neo-Natal Intensive Care Unit) would almost certainly lead to the child being stillborne

This is why I despise the zealots on both sides of this issue. They insist on using these wildly extreme cases to draw people to either side of the issue. Logic dictates this decision is a personal one, and should be left as one.

[JayMusgrove]

29. A voice of sanity, and sorry for your losses.

[POR]

31. Thx

My story gets better though. We have a loud active daugher who is about to celebrate her 5th birthday on St. Patrick's Day. She's our lucky charm (sorry for the pun)

Oh yeah. A real big Pro-Life zealot at my church told this exact same late term abortion story in Sunday school two weeks ago. I really doubt it is a real story.

[DoctorMyEyes]

30. Terribly sorry for what you and your wife have gone through

That's heartbreaking.

[POR]

33. Thx

I was a rough period that only our faith in God got us through.

That's why I really despise someone who would use such a horrific situation to draw someone to their side of a political debate. I know how precious unborn life is and I still don't think it is my place to tell someone they have to have a baby they aren't ready to have one.

[DoctorMyEyes]

55. Glad to read that you have a "Lucky Charm"!

I have two granddaughters - one just turned six and one will soon be turning four. Kids are so much fun between two and oh... 14 or so. LOL

I'm pro-choice, and I think I get what you're saying. Personally I think that the difference between a fetus and an unborn baby lies in the mothers heart. I guess it's tough to codify that into law.

[JeanGrey]

60. My son was born at 23 weeks and he survived. He is six feet

now and 165. He weighed 2.2.

[kath]

81. 2 lb 2 oz (965 gms) is awfully big for a 23-weeker -off the charts, in fact.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2431/3/13/figure/F3
Probably was further along than that. Sometimes a woman's "due date" isn't very accurate. 965 grams would be 50th percentile for a 26 1/2 - 27 week gestation.

24 weeks is pretty much considered the margin of viability - some 23 weekers survive, but it's really pushing things. At 23 weeks the eyes are still fused shut (like a newborn kitten) and the skin is gelatinous and very subject to breakdown and infection. Awful risks for infections - bacterial and worse yet, fungal; brain bleeds, eye problems, intestinal problems, and of course god-awful lung problems, requiring weeks on a ventilator.
Current technology has improved the outcome somewhat - with artificial surfactant and other advances, but survival rates even at 24 weeks aren't great, and neurologically-intact survival pretty low. 20 years or so ago, prognosis even worse.

[JeanGrey]

88. Nope. I knew actually exactly when I got pregnant. I had pneumonia

and we hadn't had sex but once in about two months and that is when I conceived. He was only in the premie nursery for 12 hours. He had no problems at all.

[Bette Noir]

32. If this account is true, it was murder.

That's IF.

[JeanGrey]

101. I am having a hard time understanding how this is murder under

one circumstance and not the other. If the doctor were there, HE would kill the fetus and pull it out. Since it wasn't, it came out alive and was killed anyway. What's the difference? Semantics.

[Spangle]

34. The owner is at fault.

For placing the baby in a plastic bag and sealing it. The doc wasn't there.

just because a baby can breath, doesn't mean the baby is viable. In our world, we believe all such should be saved, no matter the cost. Because we have such options available. WE have raised the bar to that expection of what is morally correct. In other countries, cost and options are an issue. IF the parents can't pay, it isn't even offered for the baby. It is layed to the side to die. If the child is believed to be disabled in some way, or going to day anyway, it's also laided to the side to die quickly. Rather then dragging out what is expected to happen anyway. The survival of the fittest. They don't expect a family to provide for the 1, at the expense of everyone else in the family.

The Doctor isn't at fault for that. He is at fault for being late. That is it. He did not kill the baby. he is being sued because he didn't kill the baby before it was birthed. How weird is that?

Sounds like this clinic needs to have in place a procedure for what should be done in these situations. Like calling an 911 to come pick up the baby. Either the mother claims it or considers it a drop off.

[POR]

35. It's even simpler than that.

Lung development, and brain development only kick into high gear in the 3rd Trimester. A baby born short of 30 weeks gestational age has a very slim chance of survival even under optimal conditions. Even if a child born at 23 weeks were to survive it would most likely have severe mental and physical handicaps.

A doctor explained it to me like this. Every day a baby spends in the womb is like a week out of the womb developmentally speaking, and a lot of that development becomes exponentially more difficulty if not impossible after the baby is born.

Now, it is possible that the clinic disposed of the stillborn child, but if the mother was there to abort the baby, who alerted the press?

The more I hear about this one, the less likely it sounds.

[Still Sensible]

52. Don't mean to be a nudge, but I hate inaccuracy

I was born in 1955 late in my mother's 26th week of pregnancy. Yes I was in an incubator for nearly three months. You need to check your statistics on births. Admittedly I was a very lucky outlier in 1955, but today 27 or 28 weeks is not terribly uncommon. You are not wrong in that at 23 weeks, even today, the child would be expected to have problems. But to say that 30 weeks is any kind of cutoff for a reasonably normal life expectancy is incorrect.

[JeanGrey]

61. Yup. My son was that early and he is fine. No problems

whatsoever.

[heliarc]

40. What I want to know is why she was dilated...

before the doctor was present. What? Doesn't that seem ridiculous? If it isn't can someone explain that one to me?

[marshall]

50. They laid my brother aside back in 1956, it took him three days to die

He was born in a fairly large hospital with birth defects that are easily treated now, but would have confined him to a wheelchair back then. My parents were young, and the decision was made after six days to transfer him to a small clinic where he could quietly die. After two days they thought he was dead and called the undertaker, but then they noticed him still moving so they had to call them back and tell them not to come yet. Finally he died the next day.

I guess that sort of thing goes on nowadays, though probably less because of the advances in medicine.

[HockeyMom]

70. Exactly

Was the woman conscience at the time of the birth? As the mother, she was the legal guardian of the child. If she came in there for an abortion and said to the nurse/whoever to just leave it alone and not use any "extraordinary" measures to keep it alive, there would be no case. At that age this baby would not survive.

Putting it in that plastic bag was where the murder was committed. Leaving it to let "nature" take it's course would not be murder.

IF any of this really happened at all. I smell an agenda.

[BrklynLiberal]

36. Was this reported by the same guy who told us all about the babies in the incubaters that were

killed in Iraq???

[jody]

38. Looks like a perfect opportunity for Obama to restate his position on abortions. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

43. I forget what it is. Can you enlighten us? -nt

[jody]

Hello CPD, use your Goggle skills and find out yourself. n/t

[Megahurtz]

45. Why would he have to restate anything?

He has Daughters.

[jody]

46. Because he's president. n/t

[Megahurtz]

54. No, he's already stated it.

He should not have to repeat himself over other's insecurity.

[jody]

57. As I understand Obama's position, he supports giving women authority for such abortions as was

intended in this case.

If the abortion had been completed, then as I understand Obama's position he would have approved.

In this case the abortion was botched and what should have been an aborted fetus became a possible murdered baby.

Please correct me with valid sources if that's wrong because you are apparently an authority on Obama's position on abortion.

[Megahurtz]

63. He Stated That

he has "no intention whatsoever of overturning Roe vs. Wade"

If people are going to force him to split hairs over the "live viable baby" Right-Wing BS in case by case situations,
then I sincerely hope he sticks close to Roe vs. Wade and steers clear of this RW-style manipulation.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

87. Ah, I see. Everything is about making Obama look bad, no matter how far-fetched.

Dude, he's not, I repeat NOT gonna take your guns away. capisce?

[Megahurtz]

41. Lotta Right-Wing Talk

on this Thread....

:eyes:

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmicone]

42. The doctor is real ....

http://ww2.doh.state.fl.us/IRM00PRAES/PRASINDI.ASP?LicId=60838&ProfNBR=1501

Don't know if the story is ...

[JayMusgrove]

44. Did you note the restriction on the license?

"Enforcement Alert
2/16/2007 10:37:53 AM
Emergency restriction of Licesne issued 2/16/07: Dr. Renelique's can only perform abortions when another licensed physician is present and that licensed physician must review Dr. Renelique's medical records for accuracy, noting their approval on each report."

Seems like this gives credibility to his incompetence!

[cosmicone]

48. Yes, I noticed that too. I also noticed

that he has five years of OB/GYN residency training but no board certification.

[Tab]

71. he has no hospital privileges either for any medical instuttion or practice in florida

if you click on his profile, you'll see "This practitioner does not currently hold staff privileges at any hospital/medical/health institution in Florida."

The doctor certain get sued for malpractice, in not monitoring the condition of his patient (or arranging for a nurse to do so) and violating the terms of his license he should have the license pulled. I don't think you can get the doctor for murder because the infant was viably born.

The OWNER, on the other hand to pop the child in a bio bag and through it out - that's just premeditated murder, plain and simple.

Horrible story.

[struggle4progress]

84. The 2007 restriction may be a result of this 2006 case

[Megahurtz]

53. Lotta People

peering into and breathing down on someone else's crotch in this Thread! :wow: :puke: :hi: Eeeeeww creepy! :scared:

Anyone stop to think it's nobody else's business?

The girl went in for an Abortion, NOT to have a baby. That was her choice.
Her intent should take precedent over all of the little Pro-Life arguments.

The Doctor did not show up, so that's a separate issue she has to hash out, legally or otherwise, with him.

[DoctorMyEyes]

56. If this were a true story

Her intentions became moot at the delivery of a live baby. I doubt the story.

[Megahurtz]

64. They would probably be moot

according to our fucked-up laws, but that's where we badly need change.

[DoctorMyEyes]

69. Are you a parody?

Some kind of satire?

[Hugabear]

72. Urban legend, this story is absolute anti-choice bullshit.

This is the sort of thing that religious nutjobs email each other. I've heard this exact same story several times before, with a few minor changes to the story.

[Freddie Stubbs]

96. It is true:

http://ww2.doh.state.fl.us/imageappnet/repository/smbpsi55re04cvzlemj2tt45/smbpsi55re04cvzlemj2tt45.pdf

[Nye Bevan]

77. I *hope* that this is not true

but if it is, it is absolutely disgusting, and the owner should go to jail. Being pro-choice does not equate with wanting to kill a live baby.

[Maine-ah]

79. AP

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jJYykrsdytHiypY5WXf0A7AAY5MAD965JKE00

[queerart]

80. Does Anyone Know When This Happened?

I looked around, and found "many dates" as to when this story took place....

I guess I was unaware that it happened 3 years ago????



This story appears midway down on this website dated Jan 30th

http://www.groupsrv.com/science/post-2915310.html


and credits the story to the website http://lifesitenews.com/



Then this story also appears on http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/10/... and gives the date of this situation as :

(use your Windows search for Sycloria Williams to find the post, as it is a big page)

(On Oct. 14, little Shanice Osbourne will finally be laid to rest 27 months after she was allegedly killed on the day she was aborted alive, July 20, 2006, by abortion clinic owner)


The facts seem to get more and more "grey"......... How is it reported as "recent".... and yet it happened nearly 3 years ago?


On Edit: Just saw in the main news story the date of 2006.... sorry for the question... I should have read better....

[Freddie Stubbs]

97. 2006:

http://ww2.doh.state.fl.us/imageappnet/repository/smbpsi55re04cvzlemj2tt45/smbpsi55re04cvzlemj2tt45.pdf

[struggle4progress]

83. Board to hear case of fetus born alive at abortion clinic (Florida Health News / Dec 08)

Board to hear case of fetus born alive at abortion clinic
By Carol Gentry
12/5/2008 © Florida Health News

A bizarre 2006 abortion case in which a fetus was allegedly born alive and stuffed in a biohazard bag was postponed on Friday in part because some members of the Florida Board of Medicine said they couldn't understand the English of the doctor charged in the case and that they needed a translator. The case was rescheduled for February ...

Police received a call on July 21 <2006> alleging the baby had been killed at the clinic; they obtained a search warrant for the clinic for July 22, taking the records of the patient but not finding the fetus.

On July 28 <2006>, following an anonymous tip that the fetus was on the roof of the clinic, police returned but didn’t find it. Later that day, following another tip, they found the decomposing remains of the fetus inside the clinic. An autopsy found that the fetus had died after taking a breath, but the cause of death was listed as “extreme prematurity.”

http://www.floridahealthnews.org/index.cfm/go/public.articleView/article/10042

[struggle4progress]

85. Lawsuit was filed by "The Thomas More Society" of Chicago. The complaint can be downloaded

as pdf from their website, here:

Thomas More Society Seeks Justice for Baby Shanice, Born Alive and Brutally Murdered
UPDATE: National Media Spotlight on Case, Including Popular "Drudge Report"! ...
http://www.thomasmoresociety.org/about%20thomas_more_society.html

The Plaintiff, SYCLORIA WILLIAMS, individually, and as Personal Representative of the Estate of SHANICE DENISE OSBOURNE, Deceased, sues Defendants, PIERRE JEAN-JACQUE RENELIQUE, M.D., MIRAMAR WOMAN CENTER, INC., A GYN. OF HIALEAH, INC., A WOMAN'S CARE, INC., A GYN. DIAGNOSTIC CENTER, INC., A GYN DIAGNOSTIC CENTER, INC., BELKIS GONZALEZ, NATALI VERGARA, SIOMARA SENISES, FREDDY GUZMAN, MARIO DIAZ, MARIA PEGUERO and FRANTZ BAZILE, M.D. ...

78. Sycloria Williams, as Personal Representative of the Estate of Shanice Osbourne, deceased, claims for the Estate of SHANICE OSBOURNE medical or funeral expenses or both which have been incurred due to the
decedent's death which have become a charge against her estate or that were paid by or on behalf of the decedent excluding the amounts recoverable by the decedent's Personal Representative, SYCLORIA WILLIAMS.

79. Sycloria Williams, as Personal Representative of the Estate of Shanice Osbourne, deceased, claims for herself as surviving parent of the minor Shanice Osbourne, her past and future mental pain and suffering ...

[and-justice-for-all]

86. I dont buy it...

Who ever wrote this anti-choice article, did a fucking terrible job.

[Freddie Stubbs]

98. Why not read what the State Department of Health wrote instead:

http://ww2.doh.state.fl.us/imageappnet/repository/smbpsi55re04cvzlemj2tt45/smbpsi55re04cvzlemj2tt45.pdf

[Blue_Tires]

92. even for some minor league cub reporter

this is some shitty reporting that does nothing but raise more questions...

"During the board's questioning, Dr. Elizabeth D. Tucker, an obstetrician-gynecologist from Pensacola, asked Renelique about three different types of medical forceps. Renelique replied that he possessed each of the instruments.

After each question, Tucker also held up a metal instrument, different from the one she had named and inquired about. One of the tools was a metal rod with an arrow attached at the tip.

Tucker asked Renelique if he had that. He replied that he did.

"For the record, these are from my antique collection," she said later. "We don't use these in terminations."

Renelique's attorney, Joseph Harrison, later requested that his client view the instruments more closely, which the board allowed. Renelique said he had never seen or used the spear in his life."
=============
=============

For starters, what is the technical name of the instrument? And why is it called "spear" in the last sentence?? (unless by small chance that is the real name)...Was the reporter present at the hearing? Did she read a transcript? Or is she getting all of this second-hand? I've never been to a medical review board meeting before, but why did that questioning doctor feel compelled to play 'gotcha' with the antique tools (especially if there was a reporter present -- I'd say that moment was ready-made for a media bite) when simple questioning would reveal his knowledge or lack thereof. For a story this long and controversial, there are only TWO(!) quoted sources, and no other corroborating copy...And why did it take a *week* for police to find the remains? Did the woman wait a week before filing a complaint?

Mark me down as another with serious doubts about this story; I've been seeing twisted variations of it over the internets, and all of them are light on detail except for what happened on the day in question...And fwiw, people have been able to take AP reporters for rides before (especially the lesser experienced ones)...

[superconnected]

93. It's murder. Women have rights to abort whats in their body, this kid was out of her body and killed

Abortion is after all a womans right to choose what to do with whats in her body. Since the kid was no longer in her body it was a separate us citizen and had it's own rights. She had NO RIGHT TO KILL IT. And neither did the doctor. He was out of his jurisdiction. Whether it would have lived or not is not the issue. It was a sole us citizen with a right to live even at that early age and even with health issues. Intentionally killing it is murder.

[Blue_Tires]

94. i forgot to add my most important point:

even if this story is halfway true, it should NOT be co-opted as some RW orgasmic indictment of the pro-choice movement, which despite the facts it already has...

the real FOCUS should be on making sure everyone has competent, professional and certified health care options available...if the woman went to some backalley hatchet black market plastic surgeon and got messed up, it would be idiotic to call for the banning of all plastic surgery...

[superconnected]

99. Excellent point.

[47of74]

100. I wouldn't trust this doctor to remove a wart from my ass.

Especially since it appears that he has a Blagojevich like hair thing going on there.

[lynne]

102. The story is true - AP reporting the Dr. has had his license removed

- Sadly, no way to chalk this nightmare up to an Urban Legend.

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) — The Board of Medicine revoked the license of a Florida doctor on Friday accused of medical malpractice in a botched abortion in which a live baby was delivered, but ended up dead in a cardboard box.

The board found Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique in violation of Florida statutes by committing medical malpractice, delegating responsibility to unlicensed personnel, and failing to keep an accurate medical record.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jJYykrsdytHiypY5WXf0A7AAY5MAD966AQ5O7