Michael Jackson's death sparks bus brawl

[47of74]

Source: Reuters

The bus was moving through the city of North Lauderdale on Thursday when passenger James Kiernan received a text message about Jackson's death on his cell phone, and he read it aloud on the bus, the Broward County Sheriff's Department said.

The unidentified bus driver opined that "Michael Jackson should have been in jail long ago," prompting Kiernan, 60, to retort that "the world just lost a great musical talent," the police report said.

It said the last remark enraged another passenger, Henry Wideman, who started a swearing match with Kiernan, then pulled out a knife and chased Kiernan down the aisle with it.

The driver called his dispatcher and pulled over near a convenience store to wait for sheriff's deputies, who arrested Wideman, 54. He remained in jail on Friday on a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090627/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_jackson_fight

---

Oh my God. How can people be that....wait, never mind.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

1. Not a smooth criminal.

[kanrok]

3. That was funny

n/t

[niceypoo]

23. A flash riot?

Well, sort of.

[rwheeler31]

2. The Republicans have lost so much all they have is

accusing anyone they do not like as a child molester.

[niceypoo]

25. Translation

Projection

[downindixie]

4. I'm a Democrat,but as far as I'm concerned

Jackson was a pedophile and the world is better off without him,especially the children!

[pennylane100]

6. amen

[rwheeler31]

7. I can not understand you judgmental people, you don't know.

[hlthe2b]

9. I find it fascinating that many of the same "liberal-progressives"

(self-professed) that would never support the death penalty and can champion a convicted murderer's innocence so readily, have absolutely no problem being 100% convinced of Jackson's guilt and further continually rale on the unspeakable outcomes Jackson "should" have suffered as a result. Vengeance, it seems, belongs to those DUers who "know all..." :eyes: Ironically you see identical attitudes posted over at FR...

[chascarrillo]

15. I find it amazing that many of the same "liberal-progressives"...

... will go to the greatest lengths defending someone who throws around millions of dollars to families in order to make "problems" disappear. Endorsing that is saying that the rich deserve to evade the rule of law while the poor do not.

Frankly, that's abhorrent.

Ironically you see identical attitudes posted over at FR...

[hlthe2b]

16. I have seen NO One here defending such....

But, yes, to do so, would be abhorrent.

[FarrenH]

22. I was never a fan of Jackson

Could never see what all the fuss was about, so my thoughts aren't biased by adulation. And I've always believed that people are innocent until proven guilty. And its simple enough to construct the counterfactual:

What if Jackson just had an unusual desire to be a child again (strongly suggested by a mountain of evidence), and that led to behaviour other people knew could easily be twisted and exploited for financial gain? While unwilling to simply presume that the other party was guilty rather than Jackson, I've always though that very feasible possibility was enough to give him the benefit of the doubt and simply accept that the facts are unknown, especially in light of the fact that the parents involved were willing to accept money for silence.

As terrible a crime as the abuse of children is, it has also been the pretext for periods of hysteria and witch-hunting in American life, resulting in many innocent people being jailed (and later released in surprisingly large numbers as innocents on exculpary evidence, which bears out this claim) and widespread acceptance in the psychiatric community that false memories are more common than we'll admit, and therapists and caregivers are eminently positioned to create them.

Against this backdrop, the possibility is strong that cynical people might exploit an incredibly famous person because of his attachment to the fantasy of a childhood he never had. However uncomfortable it may feel for people who loved his music to know that he might have been guilty of one of the worst crimes we can imagine, we simply don't know.

And unlike, for instance, the OJ case, there simply isn't enough evidence in the public domain about Michael's purported crimes to warrant any uninvolved person who followed the affair on TV passing verdict.

And I've always believed its wrong to destroy the dignity and reputation of anyone with such an extreme charge because of the mere possibility of wrongdoing.

One of my mother's associates lost a promising job and was jailed for a week (immediate incarceration pending investigation is mandatory here, for even suspected cases of abuse) because of the accusations of his niece, a mentally disturbed teenager. Thanks to a complete lack of physical evidence, the extremely short time window circumstances suggested, the testimony of his wife (who was in the next room and was conversing with him when the alleged incident happened), a psychiatric evaluation of his niece and a prior history of the niece openly flirting with him at family gatherings to everyone's discomfort, the police decided to drop all charges and his brother in law was advised that his daughter needed therapy.

But my mother, who says the man is a good man and an open book - who clearly has no terrible secrets or personal demons - commented that he will hide that from new friends and associates like a guilty secret for the rest of his life, would pay money, even, to prevent the whole sorry story gaining wider exposure. Because he knows the world is full of people for whom even an accusation hanging over someone, an outside possibility, is enough to cause feelings of profound distrust and dislike.

[woo me with science]

38. Beautiful, beautiful post.

Thank you.

[imdjh]

30. Some people give a bum a dollar to make him go away.

Others give him a dollar out of charity. Some people tell him to fuck off. Others give him a dollar because they are afraid of what will happen if they don't.

Clearly, Michael Jackson spent money in ways most of us could never imagine. If one is inclined to believe that if MJ paid people money then it's a sign of guilt, then he is going to believe that. It doesn't, however, square with the reality of being a Deep Pocket. Does State Farm pay off a minor amount of money to an alleged victim of whiplash and a client of Mr Gary because State Farm doesn't believe that the claimant is a scammig scumbag in league with a scuzbag lawyer? No, they pay it to make it go away because it's cheaper than proving that the alleged victim is a liar, or worse running the risk that a generous jury doesn't really care if the plaintiff is really injured, they just hate auto insurance companies (don't we all?).

Do you think that Jackson's decision team was unaware of the number of people in this country all too willing to believe that he's a pedophile because he's a freak or widely perceived to be gay? A million dollars doesn't seem like much in that context. Let's say that that was 1/200 of Jackson's net worth at the time. Let's say that I am worth $100K net. Would I pay $500 to make a similar accusation go away? You bet. It's the sure thing and I would easily spend that on a lawyer. In movies people risk it all to save their good name, and in movies they clear their name and everyone cheers. In real life, they go to jail and even if they do avoid jail and clear their name in the eyes of the court- there are those who convict them and forever refer to them as guilty.

Look at the daycare child molestation hysteria of the 1980's. Some of those people are still in jail. The others have had their lives ruined. You don't think they would have paid $500 to make their cases go away?

[babythunder]

37. Are you truly that naive?

it's amazing the amount of people on DU who seem to be completely ignorant of the world. People take pay-offs all the time for various reasons. Any celebrity or any person with wealth has to be extremely careful because there is always people trying to comprise them or seek some kind of monetary support. Michael's close relationship with children compromised him whether he molested or not; but again none of this is a smoking gun on him being a molester.

[Regret My New Name]

43. I find it fasc-azing how some think that opinions of MJ has anything to do with politcal leanings

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

8. As far as I am concerned stop throwing stones.

[democracy1st]

10. he was found guilty?

[nosmokes]

12. he paid millions to kid's families to shut 'em up, not exactly a sign of

purity and innocence, ya know?

Was the dude a pedophile?

All signs point to YES.

[FarrenH]

26. Read my lengthy response to this line of reasoning upthread

Your evidentiary standards are low and you're clearly unable to imagine other, equally possible and even likely scenarios in which hush money is not evidence for a crime at all, especially in the absence of other corroborating evidence.

In fact the kind of reasoning employed by people who are absolutely convinced Jackson was a pedophile, rather than simply considering the possibility, was quite common in Salem a few hundred years back.

He was accused in an environment where even an accusation of the crime in question, and a lengthy public trial, is enough to destroy a public figure, whatever the verdict. You have to consider other scenarios if your thinking is just.

[dana_b]

27. good points

he very well could have paid them off just to try and make it all go away. Another bad decision, imo, apart from the stupidity or just naivety of thinking it was okay to have sleepovers with children.

[nosmokes]

44. He got off because of money. Don't try the evidentiary standard BS w/ me

because we're not talking about a trial standard here, but I know that any kids in my charge wouldn't have been allowed around the dude because he was a fuckin child molester,OK? OJ was acquitted as well but if you think he didn't kill his wife and the white dude you're not living in reality.

[Butch350]

34. Probably greedy parents who put their kids up to it..

All those devastated parents calmed downed when Michael wrote those checks.

[Speed8098]

11. What bull$#!t

Jackson was a pedophile and the world is better off without him,especially the children!

What the fuck do you know about his role as a father? Everyone around him speaks highly of the kind of father he was.

Accusations do not equal guilt.

Come back and criticize when you have contributed as much joy as this man has his entire life.

Show some class instead of a stupid kneejerk comment.

He will be sorely missed by millions worldwide including me.

[SkyDaddy7]

14. I am just worried about MJ's Kids...

I would not be surprised to here those kids were being abused...Time will tell Michael's secrets!

[Lateedee]

17. you only know what the news media wants to report, just like the last several elections,

truth is what you want to believe versus what is actual reality! We all know dubya won both those elections right?? I refuse to believe that MJ ever did anything harmful to a child, it goes completely against his nature and anything he ever did in his life where kids where concerned. He was never found guilty of any of those charges and he settled the first one just be done with it! When I heard about Michaels passing some stupid asshole started shouting about how finally justice had been done. The courts decided here on earth and found him not guilty, isn't it God's job to be the final judge? The cruelty of that remark will be with me long after they've laid MJ to rest. I just don't understand why folks don't concentrate on all the good things he did while he walked this earth. I, for one, will miss Michael in this world. My heartfelt prayers go out to his children, his family and his close friends who knew the real man behind the mask and are mourning the loss of a son, brother, father, uncle, mentor and friend.... R.I.P. MJ!!

[imdjh]

18. You must think that Jackson and his handlers were stupid.

I find that a curious assumption. Do you honestly believe that if Michael Jackson wanted to molest children that he couldn't have found a place and vendor which we would never ever know about?

It's a curious public consciousness which imagines that a blond cheerleader from Alabama can be spirited off to Yemen to live a life of a concubine and never be found, but that someone with Michael Jackson's resources can't find a place to indulge his illegal sexual desires at a price that ensures ultimate discretion.

[liberalhistorian]

20. Bingo. The only reason he got off was due to his fame

and money and the willingness of the victims' parents to sell their children out for his payoffs to them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. Bullshit.

Walk a mile sometime. Walk a fucking mile.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. ...and, because of this, you will never be a friend of mine.

As one who has been there, may you never be accused, tried and found guilty in the court of public opinion. I lost my life because people believed something that wasn't true. Thanks for showing your true colors though...they certainly are not democratic, no matter how you protest as much.

[IndianaGreen]

39. Go frak yourself!

:puke:

[omega minimo]

41. Yes you are a Democrat but

[Amonester]

5. henry wideman should have been in jail long ago...

pulling a knife and chasing down the aisle with it for a remark?

maybe, ok, not jail, but mental institution...

[Algorem]

13. they shouldn't act out DU threads on buses.very dangerous.

[guruoo]

33. ROTFL!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Patsy Stone]

35. LOL!

:thumbsup:

[woo me with science]

40. Okay. This is the first time I have said this:

DUzy!

[PfcHammer]

19. They need to hook up with the homeless guys in the Bay area

that got into it over quantum mechanics. One smacked the
other with a skateboard.

[liberalhistorian]

21. Wow, what an asshole. I certainly and wholeheartedly

disagree that "the world lost a great musical talent" and I'm getting sick to death of hearing it, but I sure as hell wouldn't pull out a knife, or any other weapon or implement, and attack someone with it or get physical in any way, that's just crazy, stupid, ridiculous, absurd, etc., etc. This guy needs anger management pronto.

[noiretextatique]

24. just about everyone in the musical industry disagrees with you

from fallout boy to quincy jones.

[liberalhistorian]

28. Well, that's fine, whatever, people have the right to

like or dislike whatever they want. I'm not un-American because I happen to think Jackson was not a great musical talent. I sure as hell wouldn't go pulling knives or other weapons on people who disagree, though, unlike that Wideman asshole.

[noiretextatique]

29. i don't think you are unamerican...just ill-informed

of perhaps willfully uninformed. whatever he was or wasn't, MJ leaves an impressive legacy in the music industry...that's a fact, not an opinion.

[Patsy Stone]

36. Ah, South Florida...

I love ya.

[Downtown Hound]

42. It sounds like DU might have been if everybody had been face to face that day. n/t

[classysassy]

45. The know it alls

Where are your facts,those of you who think he was guilty of molesting children? If you don't have some facts shut your pie hole and get on with swilling your beer.