HI Christian Coalition: "Clean Elections Unconstitutional"

[KamaAina]

The guy on the other side of the cubicle gets this stuff, then shows it to me. You can imagine how much this has added to the total work experience.

http://www.hi-christian.com/HCC%20Oppose%20Clean%20Elections.htm

The Hawaii Christian Coalition OPPOSES election reform legislation (H.B. 1713 & S.B. 1689) known as "Clean Elections", sponsored by the lobbying group Clean Elections Hawaii. This type of public campaign financing will not attract better candidates, let alone improve our elections system. If reform legislation ever promised voters one thing but would deliver the opposite, Clean Elections is it. To clean up politics and stop corruption, contact your state Senator and Representative and urge them to vote NO on this extremely deceptive legislation, apparently designed for electing radical anti-family value single-issue candidates.

Clean Elections is long on rhetoric but fails to deliver reform. Instead, it creates bigger problems rather than solutions. Campaigns should not be 100 percent funded by the taxpayer. Nor should tax dollars be used to fund the campaigns of candidates who believe strongly in passing more laws promoting abortion, physician-assisted suicide, same-sex marriage, or other anti-family legislation. It would be immoral for Christians to donate money or vote for anti-family value candidates. Giving away Christian tax-dollars to radical single-issue candidates will prove unconstitutional.

Um, isn't it just as immoral for my tax dollars to be given to fundie shitepokes such as Bud Stonebraker? Oh, that's right. I don't agree with them (despise them, in fact, with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns), so that means I don't have any "morals". And to think, up until now, I've been kind of lukewarm on this because I worry it might help repukes against our many Dem incumbents.

"Radical anti-family value single-issue candidates"? OK, out with it. Who here at DU is running for office locally? :-)

[The Doctor.]

1. The sad part is...

The people who are part of the HICC will follow this as gospel truth.

'unbaised' means 'liberal' nowadays.

[Old and In the Way]

2. Why don't they at least be honest about it.

Hi-

I'm an operative of the Republican Party, posing as a concerned Christian. While none of us practice what we preach, we do really like having the elections rigged to keep electing us. So we will continue to stroke the "Christian Family values" thing by pandering to your emotional hotbuttons. We don't want you, the taxpayers, funding elections because then us Republicans couldn't field any candidates. Only corporations like us because we look out for our #1 constituent...at your expense. We'll keep pushing the "family values" button because we know lots of you will continue to support us against your own best interests.

Thanks-

Rev. Sheister

[mahina]

3. Exactly! How perfect.

Thanks for the laughs. You nailed it.
Mahalo Kama-san for this thread too...ho those guys piss me off!

I really don't care who runs as long as money is taken out of the equation and they have to compete on ideas and ability.
I really don't .
Republican or Democrat or Green or whatever. I would rather have a good legislator who is right on the issues and is a republican like Cynthia Theilen rather than a democrat who is the right party but on the take and a shitty legislator. No names ;) but I would (and WILL) work to rid the legislature of the slime mold that IS Mark Moses (R- Fungus) and other subspecies. It's just the money that has to go.
Grrrrrrrr

[oasis]

4. Shouldn't "Christians" be about the Lord's business? "Render unto Ceasar"

so the good book say. :shrug:

[tommcintyre]

5. Jeez! Who are the real "single-issue candidates"!

It really sucks how the right-wing extremists keep co-opting words and concepts! So anybody who does NOT agree with their complete "social conservative" agenda is NOT in favor of family values? And ALL Christians who don't agree with them are "immoral"?

WOW! Orwell was all too right. This "new speak" is getting stranger and stranger. :crazy:

[mahina]

6. My testimony- hearing tomorrow at 9 (ahem)

Aloha Chair and members of the Senate,

Linda Lingle herself and the Democratic Party of Hawaii have submitted testimony in support of the Clean Elections bill during this legislative session.

This bill will improve the publics' trust in our government. It will improve the existing system, one of good people struggling in a bad structure. If you add the house and senate back into the bill as originally written it will make a very big positive change that is desperately needed.

I have read Bob Watada's arguments against it and have heard his testimony, as well as the arguments by the Hawaii Christian Coalition. While I am grateful for Mr. Watada's many years of service I question why he would choose to argue against this good bill with bad information.

The argument that it will not eliminate special interests is a logical error. Using that reasoning we can now save most of the state's budget because we will never educate all children and reform all criminals. The city will be happy to learn that based on this standard they can now give up on the whole of HPD since we will
never stop all crime. The road crews can now go home as we will never fix all the potholes. In logic it is called an irrelevant conclusion, and it is not a valid argument.

His other argument that it is not wise to put a second program in place is likewise not sound, as this program would eliminate its weaker and less complete predecessor. I don't know where his figures cited came from but it was not from this legislation and has no basis in fact.

The Hawaii Christian Coalition similarly based its call to action on the part of its members to oppose this bill on arguments fabricated from whole cloth. To be clear there is no anti family agenda here. This bill would support citizens from right, left and center, single and married, of whatever persuasion, including incumbents, to
participate in our democracy and bring forth their gifts. It is an act of faith in the people.

If anyone thinks that the current structure works just fine, they are not listening to popular opinion which now holds the honorable job of serving the people as elected representative in very low regard. That is a shame. It is not justified but it is the truth.

People want campaign finance reform. To vote against it is to vote against the greater good and for the broken status quo.

It has been said that the perfect is the enemy of the good. No one can promise that this or any other bill will eliminate special interests, and no one has. But it will do something substantial, and the difference between doing something and doing nothing is everything!

Thank you for passing HB1713 SD1 and putting the house and senate back into the
bill.

[progressivehawaiilib]

7. good role models

Other states have already passed Clean Elections bills and they are working out quite well. Reference Arizona and West Virginia's experiences.

Evangelical Christians are flexing the muscle of political power they have been building for a long time. They have already displayed their efficacy with the Terri Schiavo case and with the coming vote on the "nuclear option" to dissolve judicial filibusters.

They are so intent on opposing anything proposed by a perceived liberal that they overlook potential benefits for themselves and potential widespread harms that will come from their opposition.

They have not yet taken Hawaii but they just might.

[newyawker99]

8. Hi progressivehawaiilib!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[opihimoimoi]

9. The Pubs Rule and they still haven't convinced me they can with

real leadership. Thus they need dirty elections. Anything to stay in power so they get the TVRemote.....They want us to watch 700 Klub 24/7

The Coalition is a group of delusional peeps with convoluted thinking.