What do you all think of Obama's caucus flyers for out of state college students?

[Debi]

[Cairycat]

1. Whether it's ethical to encourage out-of-state college students

to caucus, I don't know. One could argue that by going to school here, (and working and buying stuff) they are contributing to the economy. Are they subject to jury duty? Are they required to get Iowa license plates for their cars? To the extent that they can be involved in Iowa's economic and civic life, I'm thinking it's all right for them to caucus. But, I'm a fan of young people becoming involved in politics.

Whoever proofread the flyer needs to have a lesson on the difference between its and it's. I wonder how many college students would notice that!

[Debi]

2. Ha! I didn't catch that!

Iowa law allows what they're doing (and I'm sure the IDP encorages it b/c we WANT more young people involved).

I don't like the complaining done by the other campaigns (reminds me of Kerry in 2003 complaining about Dean's Perfect Stormers) because it implies that the Iowa Caucuses aren't clean and aren't fair and are subject to manipulation.

Rather than making one campaign look bad I think it makes Iowa look bad.

d.

[Rambis]

8. They do not have a license here

the do not have Iowa plates on their cars. They or their parents do not file Iowa taxes. They are registered to vote in IL. We get this all the time from students who are in Iowa for 4 years and say they should be charged in State tuition. Even though they go back to IL in the summer and do not do any of the things mentioned above that would be steps to becoming a resident for tuition purposes. It also means taking classes only half time for a year while working and living here full time. The parents lie, the students lie, they turn in Iowa tax forms they never intend to file, the parents buy property and say the student is living there even though they do not. It is a mess of lies and there is little we can do about it because we do not have the time or resources to track them down. Even if we did the laws are not punishing these people once they are caught even though in some cases it is fraud of gigantic proportions. They should not be allowed to caucus.

[Debi]

10. Unfortunately, Rambis, we will have to disagree

and the students do not have to lie to caucus here.

The law says they can as to the Party's rules.

[Rambis]

12. Not fair-

I hate rules:evilgrin:

[Debi]

15. Use your great power and change them...

C'mon you're the elected official now!

[Pirate Smile]

19. Hmmm. Should we require Iowa drivers licenses? An Iowa state Income Tax form?

It sounds like we will need some investigators as well. Since the Dems control the State House and Governorship, I don't think this will likely pass. The Republicans would probably like it though. They love to try to make it harder for younger people to vote.

I have a feeling that no matter which of our nominees wins the nomination, none of them would want to make it more difficult for college students to vote.

[Rambis]

20. No

Just blowing off steam on the fake residency people.

[Pirate Smile]

21. I know. I could tell it wasn't actually about voting.

:)

[Vincardog]

23. Collage students can vote where they go to school. There is not legal or ethical question.

We should all work hard to educate and encourage all students to vote.

[Debi]

25. I agree, and I think you'll see by this post in the Iowa Forum that the other Iowa DUers do too n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

24. At the risk of sounding stupid, I think the use of "it's" was correct

As I was taught "its" is used in the possessive sense and "it's" is used as an abbreviation for "it is".

[MonkeyFunk]

26. At the very top

it says "Its easy to caucus"

That should mean "It is easy to caucus", and requires an "it's".

"It's" is used correctly later in the flyer.

[Hippo_Tron]

27. Ahh thanks

They definitely need to proofread better.

[Cairycat]

28. oops, delete

point already made. Sorry!

[taylor egv420106]

31. If they are registered to vote here they have a right to caucus

Plain and simple.

[Adelante]

3. Good old fashioned GOTV

:thumbsup:

[MethuenProgressive]

4. Thanks for posting this, debi!

I think, from a group that claimed Clinton brought people in from out of state to stack the Iowa debate audience, it's very poor form.

[Debi]

5. I don't understand your post. n/t

[Debi]

6. Geez, I'm sorry I asked

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3786144&mesg_id=3786144

[rurallib]

9. I apologize.

[Debi]

11. You didn't do anything wrong.

And if you disagree with Iowa law you should let people know.

I don't disagree with the law or the Party's rules and beleive that the more who participate the better. I also beleive that if a student is living here from August to December and Janurary to May that Iowa is just as much 'home' as 'home' is.

[rurallib]

13. I have no problem with the law

Having lived in IC for a long time I am fully aware that IC would be much, much more right wing were it not for the students. And they should have a say - they live there 2/3rds of the year.
Does that make sense?

[Debi]

16. Yes, and that's why I'm having a problem with this

it's not just Iowa law - this is settled law that the SC took care of 30-some years ago (some other DUer cited it, I'm hoping it's true as I don't have my Mr. Debi Encyclopedia w/me right now).


But, also, think about who is advising the Clinton campaign. Does TV REALLY want to ensure no more out of state Iowa college students participate in the political process? How will he ever become Senator or his wife become the first Iowa Congresswoman if we start disenfranchising the youth vote?

[rurallib]

17. no kidding

What do Johnson, Story and Blackhawk county have in common? Loebsack wins when Johnson county comes in. Take away the students and we have no Gov. Vilsack.

[Debi]

18. Take away UNI, St. Ambrose, Loras College and a host of Jr. colleges

and no Bruce Braley! :scared:

[Pirate Smile]

7. I think some of the campaigns want to de-legitimize the caucuses in case their

candidate loses - which reminds me of the thread about Iowa being sexist too.

Students have always been able to caucus. The only difference is the early date during the Winter break.

Now people are claiming Obama is going to bus in non-students to vote. That is just a lie.

We now have a month left - the bullsh#$ it flying high. I'm certainly not surprised.

[Debi]

14. Here's another thread on it (this one includes a John Deeth piece

from Iowa Independent) quoting out of state Clinton supporters who will be driving back to caucus. I guess it's only against the law if the Obama supporters do it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3787609

Link to Deeth's blog: http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1564

[Pirate Smile]

22. I'll post some paragraphs for people who don't have time to check out the links.

Student Caucus Flap Lowers Tone Of Dialogue
by: John Deeth
Monday (12/03) at 08:00 AM

Democrats spend a great deal of time saying that they believe in counting every vote. The pain of the hanging chads still burns in their hearts, and the battle over photo ID's to vote looms. Which is why it's so disconcerting to see operatives for Hillary Clinton and Chris Dodd attacking Barack Obama for encouraging students to caucus.
Sure, there's an advantage for Obama in encouraging kids from Illinois who go to school in Iowa. Why do you think he's pushing it? For the same reason Hillary Clinton is pushing casserole recipes at busy moms and Chris Dodd is campaigning with firefighters. There's votes in it. The rules were set long ago, and Obama's found a rich vein of potential voters to mine.

David Yepsen offered a column with the inflammatory headline "The Illinois Caucuses." Seems the Des Moines Register's in-house pundit is, ahem, concerned that Obama's remarks encouraging students who go to Iowa schools, but whose parents live out of state, might, ahem, "risk offending long-time Iowa residents." That display of Iowa nativism is sad coming from Yepsen, who normally takes every opportunity to note that Iowa's insularity on issues such as English only, immigration, LGBT rights and young people doing fun stuff is a factor in our state's slow to non-existent growth. Yet when it comes to the caucuses, he wants to lock people outside, even as he acknowledges that it's perfectly legal to let them in.

The thinly veiled all-but accusations lower the already rapidly declining Democratic dialogue. "`New Politics' shouldn't be about scheming to evade either the spirit or the letter of the rules that guide the process," said Julie Andreeff Jensen of the Dodd campaign. Invoking the image of Mayor Daley and the all-important Necro-American vote, she added, "That may be the way politics is played in Chicago, but not in Iowa." (Do we all know the old joke: "When I die, I want to be buried in Chicago so I can remain politically active"?)

The University of Iowa hasn't helped the process, refusing to join Iowa State and UNI in opening the residence halls for the caucuses. Instead, they're offering a $50 rate at the Iowa House hotel - while student's own dorm rooms are locked and empty. The head of University of Iowa housing, Von Stange, offered a cold "We're not accountable to the campaigns. We're accountable to students," to the Iowa City Press-Citizen, a sharp contrast to Michael Hager at UNI: "We have to encourage students with civic engagement and to become responsible citizens. If we can help students do that, we are more than happy to."

-snip-
The only real difference is that getting students back has never before been an issue because the caucuses were always held on a much later date. My first caucus -- and yes, I was a student and yes, I moved here from another state -- was in 1992, on the nice reasonable date of Feb. 10. In 2004, the caucuses were Jan. 19 - the day before University of Iowa classes started.

[Debi]

29. And another one...except this time Senator is flat out wrong in her comments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3795931

<snip>

In a jab at Obama’s efforts to encourage out-of-state students who attend college in Iowa to caucus, Clinton said the caucuses are only for people who live in this state.

“This is a process for Iowans. This needs to be all about Iowa, and people who live here, people who pay taxes here,” she told the Clear Lake crowd.

<snip>


Anyone want to call Governor Vilsak and explain Iowa Law to him? :shrug:

[Debi]

30. What craziness

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3803159