Woo Hoo Wiscasset

[jpak]

Wiscasset turns down energy project

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=146140&ac=PHnws

Take that Carpetbaggin' Flatlanders....

:evilgrin:

[high density]

1. For once I agree with Wiscasset

Of course the right wing comment trolls on the Press Herald site are complaining about jobs. You'd think Google had just been denied the ability to build a facility that would create a couple hundred six figure jobs.

What's up with these idiots who think coal and wood is "alternative" or "new" energy?

[Shorebound]

2. Wiscasset

This may have been the most short-sighted action Wiscasset has ever taken. LNG terminals, coal plants, wind farms, (and don't even think about nuclear) have all been rejected in Maine. Meanwhile the Sable Island gas field -- the one that supplies all the natural gas-powered generating units in Maine -- has gone into decline. Hydropower is stable to declining in Maine. North American natural gas production has plateaued, and global oil production has dropped by almost a million barrels a day in the last year. And oil is just shy of $100 and gasoline is above $3 and no one is seeing the connections.

We're rapidly reaching the point where the only choices left will be between bad and worse.

[jpak]

3. LURC endorsed another wind farm today (Stetson Mnt. 57 MW)

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=146316&ac=PHnws

....and, with the pending Freedom (15 MW), Black Nubble (54 MW), Kibby Mountain (132 MW) and Linekin Bay (500 MW) wind farms, that's 746 MW of wind power in development in Maine.

Maine currently generates 55% of its electricity from renewable sources (hydro and biomass) and only 38% of its electricity from natural gas...

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/state/state_energy_profiles.cf...

...and exports 34% of the electricity it generates each year...

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/st_profiles/e_...

So when "the gas runs out" Maine will be in pretty good shape - even if that 746 MW of new wind capacity, hundreds of MW of proposed tidal/wave capacity and dozens of MW of new biomass capacity doesn't come on line.

Maine doesn't need a coal-fired power plant - we can generate *all* of our electricity from renewable sources here in Maine.

[Shorebound]

5. Wind

....and, with the pending Freedom (15 MW), Black Nubble (54 MW), Kibby Mountain (132 MW) and Linekin Bay (500 MW) wind farms, that's 746 MW of wind power in development in Maine.

Note that those are max numbers -- wind farms routinely produce only 30-40 percent of their rated capacity over the year. And too, they produce only when the wind is blowing, and thus will always be a power source that's used in addition to more conventional sources that provide the base power the grid requires.

And I'm not sure Maine is ready for a 38 percent reduction in its electricity availability.

You're right, Maine can generate all its power in-state, but only if its own residents allow it. I can't wait to hear the howls when the first tidal generation projects are announced. But all of that is down the road -- five, ten, fifteen years in the future, if at all.

[jpak]

6. Wind turbines produce power 60-85% of the time - just not at their rated capacity

Their design is fundamentally different from thermal power plants and their capacity factors cannot be directly compared.

Furthermore, the 7 wind farms currently under development in Maine will be distributed around the state which will dampen variation in power production due to variable wind speeds.

Wyamn and Flagstaff Lake dams can also be used to produce power in the Kennebec basin when wind turbines produce less - as can intermittent power production from the half dozen or so idle biomass power plants in the state.

There are several bio-refineries under development in the state that will produce liquid fuel from wood - that can be used to run peaking and intermediate load power plants (and further dampen any variation in power output from wind farms).....

http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/01... /

Maine sites eyed for bio-oil refinery

MILLINOCKET, Maine --A developer is looking at several sites in Maine for a refinery that would turn forest products into clean-burning oil to be used as fuel in electrical plants.

Fractionation Development Center is considering Baileyville in Washington County, the Down East and Katahdin regions, Madison, Old Town, Presque Isle and Skowhegan among potential sites for a $45 million refinery, said FDC Executive Director Scott Christiansen.

The Rumford-based nonprofit firm, which promotes Maine biomass technologies, says the plant would be the first of several to eventually be built in Maine. Each would create at least 60 jobs for processing up to 900 tons of wood a day into bio-oil.

The oil helps to create electricity about as cleanly as natural gas in specially designed plants located near the refineries, Christiansen said.

<more>

The Electric Power Research Institute has identified 10 tidal power sites on the Maine coast each with a with potential for 10 MW or more. Tidal turbines can be operational 1 year from the decision to deploy them...

Marine Current Turbines Installs Tidal Energy Turbines in Vancouver

http://www.renewableaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=50523

Marine Current Turbine (MCT) and BC Tidal Energy Corporation have signed an agreement to install at least three 1.2 Megawatt (MW) SeaGen tidal energy turbines in Vancouver's Campbell River by 2009. The agreement is the first step in a plan to develop larger tidal farms off British Columbia's coast, which the company says have a tidal energy potential of up to 4,000 MW.

<more>

so it think Maine IS ready for the day the gas runs out...

[Shorebound]

9. jpak

"Wind turbines produce power 60-85% of the time - just not at their rated capacity"

Umm, that's what I said. A wind turbine's rating does not indicate its power output over time, only its maximum output under ideal conditions. Practically speaking, average output is only 30-40 percent of rated capacity. So a 50-megawatt wind farm will actually average only 15-20 mw of power over a year. That's still a lot better than zero, and new, more efficient designs are coming forward all the time. I'm just saying let's use realistic numbers when we talk about wind.

Biorefineries are nice -- and when the first one gets built and is operating as advertised, I'll cheer along with everyone else. So far that hasn't happened. Case in point, the waste-to-oil refinery built in Missouri that was supposed to turn turkey offal into light oil and diesel.

As for a wood-to-oil plant, note that it will use 900 tons of wood every day. That's 328,000 tons of wood a year. If "several" (let's say three) are built, that means 1 million tons of wood a year. And people are complaining about logging pressures on the North Woods now. It's like the argument that was used when the first wood chip-fired generating stations were built, like the one in Greenville, that the fuel would come from "waste wood." Now there are entire logging operations devoted to whole-tree chipping.

(That's a broken link on the biorefinery story, BTW.)

And as I said earlier, I can't wait for the howls of protest we'll hear when the first large-scale tidal generation project is proposed.

[jpak]

10. Shorebound

The Missouri turkey offal-to-biofuel plant has been operating for several years now.

Maine forests currently produce more than 16 million tons of wood per year (all categories). 1 million tons is a small fraction of the total harvest. With the decline of the paper industry, biorefineries (and pellet mills) can easily take up the slack in wood demand.

Furthermore, the wood biofuel processes proposed for Maine biorefineries will use the lignin/hemicellulose fraction of the wood. The cellulose fibers will be used for pulp. paper and structural wood products. Paper mills using this process will be able to produce fuel and chemicals in addition to pulp and paper without increasing the amount of wood they now consume.

Maine could produce 25-40% of its transportation fuel needs with these processes - and much much more if we used fuel efficient vehicles and public transit.

Maine has the potential to produce most of its energy - electricity, heating fuel and transport fuel. There is no need to blow the tops off of mountains in West Virginia, paralyze southern Maine's transportation system with weekly 100+ car coal trains, pump 5 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere and dump 300,000 tons of coal ash in Wiscasett each year.

But that won't happen if we let Plum Creek turn the North Woods into New Jersey.

Finally - virtually all the proposed tidal power projects in Maine will use submerged in-stream turbines spaced at least 1000 m apart - most people won't know they are there...

[Shorebound]

12. jpak

Lots of maybe's in your statement, but nothing more. That's because there is currently not a single commercial wood-to-oil facility operating anywhere, not least because there's no assurance yet that it isn't a negative energy process -- IOW it takes more energy to produce the oil than it will give up when used. And higher oil prices (along with the lower dollar) will make Maine-produced wood products more competitive both here and overseas, so don't be counting on lots of paper mills closing right away.

As for the TDP plant in Missouri, please note that it is the only one operating and that at last report it was barely breaking even despite $90 oil and a federal subsidy. It's also telling that no others have been built, and that the developer is now looking at sites in Europe. I remember when the first major article about the process broke in Discover magazine -- probably still have it somewhere on my hard drive -- back in 2003. They were going to run everything from municipal garbage and sewage to industrial wastes through this and turn out oil by the millions of barrels. Hasn't happened, and now it looks as if it never will.

As much as I would like to share your confidence that Maine could go it alone (and there's a whole other conversation about why we should want to do that), so far your solutions are all pie in the sky.

[jpak]

13. Shorebound

Pie in the sky???

Commercial coal-gasification with carbon sequestration (heavily subsidized thanks to the GOP) is pie-in-the-sky. Seven coal-gasification projects have been canceled in the US - Wiscasset makes 8.

Range Fuel is currently building a cellulosic ethanol plant in Georgia...

http://www.rangefuels.com/our-first-plant

and DOE is funding 6 biorefineries in the US - but none in Maine...

http://www.energy.gov/news/4827.htm

Why there and not here???

The attitude that "it can't/won't happen in Maine" is all too common.

Why should we hop up on our hind legs and dance around like trained poodles every time a Plum Creek or Twin Rivers Energy dangles a (nasty) treat in front of our snout - or dismiss new opportunities because it doesn't fit into the "conventional" worldview???

Canada, Wisconsin, New York, Mississippi and Georgia have active wood biorefinery programs - as does U Maine - and you *will* see at least one biorefinery built in Maine in the next 3 years - count on it.

[Shorebound]

14. jpak

"Why there and not here???"

At a guess, because Maine has a widespread reputation for opposing new energy projects of all kinds. A $45 million biorefinery planned by Fractionation Development Center of Rumford was canceled earlier this year. The reasons, according to executive director Scott Christiansen in the Bangor Daily News: "An environmental permitting process that could take up to three years and cost as much as $500,000, and the faster-than-expected development of markets for secondary products made with the phenolic resins created in the refinery process, such as pressed fiberboard composite glues and food and cosmetic products."

Christiansen has since left the project to go back to college, and he was widely acknowledged as the spark plug for the idea.

The Red Shield plant in Old Town is still waiting for $30 million in DOE money. I haven't heard that it has even reached the second stage of the grant process yet. And there is a story in today's Bangor Daily News -- http://bangornews.com/news/t/city.aspx?articleid=156506&zoneid=176
-- about high lead levels in the facility's waste ash.

Last I heard, Green Bean Bio-Fuel in Vassalboro, which planned to build a biodiesel facility there using restaurant waste oil, has closed down because town residents wouldn't approve the facility. The neighboring town of China turned it down, too, IIRC.

Frank Heller in Brunswick is pushing a "green energy" park at BNAS that would include a biorefinery. He's talking big words in the reader comments section of the Press Herald, but no one has seen anything substantive from that yet, and I've heard that the powers that be in Brunswick aren't too keen on some stinky refinery locating in their town.

Jeez, I could go on. My files are thick with this stuff. But I think you get the idea.

[jpak]

15. Shorebound

No, I don't get the idea.

I can find no evidence that the proposed wood biorefinery has been canceled and have not found the quote attributed to Scott Christiansen in the Bangor Daily News - or any place else.

If you have a link...produce it.

Furthermore, two pellet mills opened in Maine this year (Athens and Corinth) - one the largest in North America (with plans to double production). Two more are in development at Red Shield (Old Town) and in Strong.

How can this happen in Maine's bad energy business climate???

Red Shield is operating its biomass power plant - with virgin wood chips - which solved its lead problem.

Further still, which of these Maine wind farms is facing opposition from Maine environmental groups??

Linekin Bay
Kibby Mountain
Stetson Mountain
Partridge Peak/Old Turk Mountains
Beaver Ridge, Freedom

(clue: none)

Further and further still...

At least 9 companies have filed FERC applications for tidal power development in Maine. At least one will deploy a full-scale prototype tidal turbine next year...

http://www.bangordailynews.com/news/t/downeast.aspx?articleid=146627&zoneid=177

Where is the opposition???

Positive Energy Inc. produces biodiesel from used restaurant oil/grease in Portland.

http://positiveenergybiofuels.com/company.php

http://www.workingwaterfront.com/article.asp?storyID=20070703

But...but...but this can't happen in Maine!!!111

When Maine people successfully oppose an energy project - like the Twin Rivers coal plant, or the Athens demolition debris "biomass" power plant, or Redingtion Mountain wind farm - its for a good reason.

Get the idea???

:evilgrin:

[Shorebound]

16. jpak

I don't make this stuff up, jpak. I don't need to. The link I had is dead, but I saved the article. I can only quote the first three grafs to meet the Fair Use standards here at DU.

-----------
$45M refinery project on hold
By Nick Sambides Jr.
Thursday, April 05, 2007 - Bangor Daily News

A proposed $45 million refinery project that would turn forest products into clean-burning oil and fuel 25-megawatt electrical plants is on hold, proponents said Wednesday.

Baileyville, Jay, Lincoln, Millinocket, Old Town, Presque Isle, Skowhegan and Waldoboro are among the communities that have been considered as sites for the initial refinery, the first in a proposed series.

But environmental permitting costs and changes in the quick-paced experimental energy market are giving pause to the Fractionation Development Center, a Rumford-based nonprofit promoting Maine biomass technologies for the Legislature, Executive Director Scott Christiansen said.
------------

jpak, I wrote quite a long reply to your post above, but I think this discussion has about run its course. We're on the same side here, I just don't believe we have the luxury of waiting for exotic new technology to get up to speed to meet our energy needs while proven technology is pushed to the sidelines because it isn't politically correct. The last time I checked, the peak in global oil production was July 2006, and it's gone downhill ever since.

[jpak]

17. Shorebound

Thanks for the clarification on the biorefinery - it's "on hold" rather than "canceled".

Also glad to hear we're on the same side here...

:hi:

[Shorebound]

18. jpak

"On hold" in this case means "canceled." The organization has no money or employees, the board is being "reorganized," and the new board "will have a new mission that will still aim toward the development of innovative products and chemicals from wood," according to the article excerpted below.

Sorry.

http://www.sunjournal.com/story/220487-3/RiverValley/Rumfords_great_economic_hope_turns_uncertain/

Rumford's great economic hope turns uncertain

By Eileen M. Adams , Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 11, 2007

RUMFORD - Plans for a $45 million biorefinery, here or anywhere else in Maine, have fallen through.

Still, some people believe the idea to turn wood products into fuel and other commercial substances will eventually become reality.

Scott Christiansen, ex-head of the Fractionation Development Center based in Rumford, resigned at the end of June. His assistant, Todd Polanowicz, resigned about the same time, heading for a job in the Boston area.

The Red Shield plant is currently just a woodchip-burning power/steam operation. Any ethanol production is many years and many millions of DOE and private dollars away. Haven't heard yet if it's returned to burning demolition debris again.

[jpak]

19. Shorebound

The price of oil will not go down

The trees are there

The technology exists

The demand for energy - electricity and liquid fuels - is there

Many years ain't so many years away...

[Shorebound]

20. jpak

This is going to lead our discussion astray a little -- or perhaps not.

All of your points are valid. The price of oil will not go down appreciably. I don't anticipate ever seeing $79 oil again, even if we fall into a major recession that reduces demand significantly. As I noted above, global crude oil production peaked more than a year ago and has started declining. Mexico is our third-largest source of imported oil, but Cantarell's decline and Mexico's own increasing domestic demand mean it will be a net oil importer itself within six years -- if it can hold together as a country that long. OPEC announced last Sept. 11 that it would increase oil production by 500,000 barrels per day. Instead, OPEC shipments have actually dropped since then.

The effects in Maine are easy to see -- $3.25 gasoline, $3.15 fuel oil. Firewood dealers are already out of seasoned wood and increasing prices. And you're right, the trees are there --- for now. But wood will once again become the important heating fuel it was in the 1970s, the declining value of the dollar is giving the paper industry a real boost, Maine lumber can now compete with Canadian imports again, and rising electricity prices are making wood-fired generating plants competitive again. There is a real danger, when we add the demands from a wood-based ethanol industry, that the Maine forests will once again be placed under tremendous pressure.

I don't see, so far at least, any public indication that the state or the forest industry are looking ahead in anticipation of this.

I anticipate that, within a very few years, we will be scrambling for energy from any source we can find -- wind, solar, tidal, hydro, wood, natgas. Those first three sources share one attribute -- they all need base load support from a more conventional full-time energy generator for the grid to work properly. All three of the latter sources IMO face supply problems, and I'd be happy to go into detail on that if you like. Right now, whether we like it or not, the only other source that can provide that base power is coal. (I won't even consider nuclear.) The technology already exists to make coal use much, much cleaner than we've seen in the past -- far cleaner than the two to three coal-burning power plants China is building every week.

I would much rather Wiscasset had welcomed the coal plant now under our rules and conditions than waiting five years and having a coal plant imposed on us by the feds without any local or state input or control, which is what is coming.

[high density]

4. Gas is high because of speculation and USD devaluation

Building this plant is not going to give us lower gas prices. Let's not forget that it's going to run off of coal and wood. The price of wood these days is certainly not low. "Clean coal" is the biggest oxymoron on the planet, no matter what they do to it.

Wiscasset did not vote down a LNG terminal. It's also not a windfarm. I don't think you can lump this plant in with those proposals. For one thing, much of the windfarm opposition is nonsensical because those people generally want two incompatible goals to be fulfilled at once.

Twin River's big problem is that they have put up too much of a smoke and mirrors act, and many of the voters saw right through it. Just look at the front page of their website that claims "Ultra Clean Gasification Technology."

[ticapnews]

7. Which is most responsibile for the price of oil approaching $100 and gas $3+

A) The granola-fed hippies of Wiscasset rejecting this proposal
B) An ill-advised, illegal war in the Cradle of Civilization as part of a disastrous foreign policy
C) Speculation in the petroleum market
D) The devaluation of our dollar
E) All of the Above
F) B, C and D

Bonus points if you can somehow explain how the people of Wiscasset are responsible for the global price of oil...

[Shorebound]

8. Wow

What an outstanding example of not seeing the forest for the trees. All the arguments we make here about how decisions at the grassroots level can effect the larger society and then one of the most important issues we face gets reduced to a condescending and uninformed multiple choice question.

I've said this before here, I'll say it again: go to theoildrum.com, the Association for the Study of Peak Oil, energybulletin.net, read any of the books by Kenneth Deffeyes, Richard Heinberg, Michael Klare, Matt Simmons. Then you may begin to faintly understand why the choices made in places like Wiscasset, Harpswell, Greenville, and Windham are important not only to Maine but to the accomplishment of the goals that this website and its members stand for.

As for how the people of Wiscasset are responsible for the price of oil, they're not. They're responsible for a short-sighted and parochial response to it.

[luckyleftyme2]

11. coal is not the answer

of all the things we can use to create energy for electricity,heat,transportation or whatever
coal seems to be the leading polluter.
we could take some lessons from france.they are moving forward with alternative sources of energy.omitting fossil fuel from the picture as fast as they can. and their not the only nation.
tidal power is being used more and with this use is coming new technology. 10-15 years is b.s.
it's here now but the will isn't.
we here so much about using corn for fuel,but this is not the only vegetable that can be used. even potatoes will produce alcohol. I've tasted vodka that should have been put in the tank.
of course last I knew the gasoline engine was only about 55% efficient but it sure beats walking!