Peters and Skinner Video from Troy Democratic Club

[bfealk]

Nancy, I'd really like to see the video your team shot at the Troy Democratic Club forum with Gary Peters and yourself. Why don't you post it to YouTube so everyone can see how great you are when you are in a forum situation. I'm sure your fans would love to see you in action.

That way everyone can see for themselves what you said about influencing Obama's position on the war in Iraq, too.

[noamnety]

1. If there is a video from that

I would love to see it. I really don't feel like I know either candidate all that well. (Not that they're in my district, but that race gets enough attention, I'm kind of interested.)

[bfealk]

24. Funny, no video yet

And this is where this thread started. I'm really interested in seeing the video from the Troy Democratic Club forum. Funny thing is, it hasn't shown up yet on Nancy's web site and it's been 3 weeks or so since the forum. I wonder what Nancy is worried about, since she hasn't posted it on line yet.

[PassingFair]

2. Why don't you wipe the spittle flecks off of your chin ...

calm down,

and POST IT YOURSELF?

Get a grip.

[bfealk]

3. I don't have the video, only Nancy's team does.

I would post it if I had it. Unfortunately I didn't record this event. I had no idea it would be so interesting and frankly quite so confrontational on Nancy's part. Nancy, instead of answering my question, decided to attack me too, accusing me of following Joe Knollenberg around and sending her "nasty" e-mails, which I've never done. And I'd like to see exactly what she said about being responsible for changing Barack Obama's mind on supporting the war. She claims she had something to do with him being against the war and also that his being against the war is responsible for him being where he is today, even though there's video of him making a speech on the floor of the IL Senate against the war in 2002, probably before he even heard of Nancy Skinner.

[maddogesq]

4. FYI: Nancy was on WLS in Chicago in those years.

How do you know he never heard of her then? Don't assume...state fact instead. I knew Nancy's name before she came back to Michigan, because she subbed for Malloy and others in the pre-Air America days.

[bfealk]

5. Oh, that's right

Sorry. I forgot she lost to Barack Obama in Illinois before she moved to Michigan and lost to Joe Knollenberg. 0-2, that's a record I want going up against an 8 term incumbent. It seems like decidedly bad judgment that her first run for public office was as a U.S. Senator, something she is vastly underqualified to do. Perhaps she should cut her teeth running for a city or county elected office before running for the U.S. Senate or the U.S. House.

I said Obama probably never heard of her and I'll stick by that. In fact, they're such good friends, when Nancy sent out an e-mail mentioning Obama, her campaign misspelled his name.

[maddogesq]

6. You have too much fucking time on your hands.

All web sites mispell words here and there. Again, you completely missed the point of what I said. Attack animals such as yourself do that, because they are so hell bent on bad mouthing their chosen target, rather than talking up their own candidate.

If you respect Joe's winning record, go work for him. (Wouldn't surprise me if you did, as much as you bad mouth the person Joe fears the most.)

This county is changing. The demographics are different, and reflect trends that exist nationwide. Nancy reps these changes. When women run, women win.

Could Peters have come as close as she did last time? I doubt it. He is the 3rd white male lawyer who would have been slaughtered by Joe.

Nancy acknowledged Obama defeated her, but good. She took the experience she gained from that and ran again...and nearly won. That's a fact.

Your attacks are fucking old. Get a life.

[A-Hillz4ever]

7. Don't yell at Bruce!

Who the hell are you. Bruce at least tries to make a difference in the district instead of sitting on his butt in front of his computer writing hateful messages all day.

We get it you don't like Gary Peters because hes a white male, that does not mean you have to be a total ass. Maybe when we see you at an OCDP meeting you have the right, or when you make it to some place beside democratic underground.

Your a political hack for Nancy Skinner. Skinner is not a viable candidate she is a carpet bagger who wants an easy job and does not want to work for it, who used to be a Radio show talking head with a million clips for the republicans to use against her. She has lost before she even began to fight.

Nancy Skinner will lose, the question is will she make it so democrats lose the district because she did not get her way, if we ignore her she will just go away.

[PassingFair]

9. I haven't seen a SINGLE post here ATTACKING Peters,,,,

but you and Bruce are doing a BANG-UP job of attacking Skinner.

Just for running....

WTF?!

Are you against primaries?

[A-Hillz4ever]

10. Skinner has no Resume to run with.

We can't another 2 years to take this seat just because Nancy has some idea in her head that she can be a congresswoman with no Resume at all.

The primary is a long way away and we only need serious candidates in the race. You must not live in MI-09 because last time 3 other democrats who were running in the primary against Skinner bowed out to give the democrats a chance to win the seat.

She squandered that chance, because she was an ineffective candidate and played 5% below the democratic base in every municipality.

Nancy Skinner is not a serious candidate if we ignore her she will just go away.

[PassingFair]

12. I had DAY after DAY of listening to Skinners positions while she was on 1310...

I agree with her on ALL of them.

Just because some people in the party believe it's Mr. Peter's TURN
to go to Washington, doesn't mean they get to SHOVE him down the electorate's
throat.

Nancy was outspent because the PARTY MACHINERY FAILED to back her.

She raised what she did from the GRASSROOTS and little else.

I will not REWARD the party machinery for their PAST FAILURES by
rubber stamping their hand-picked "Lottery Commissioner" cum Congressman
just because YOU SAY SO.

We have primaries in this party.

Deal with it.

And it matters WHAT kind of Democrats we elect, and I am POSITIVE
that Nancy is a "P"rogressive with a Capital P.

[bfealk]

15. Just because you agree with Nancy

doesn't make her a good candidate. In fact, I would argue her radio personality doesn't translate well at all to the campaign trail. I liked Nancy on the radio and I listened almost every morning and even called in a few times. I think her cheerleader personality doesn't translate well to a political campaign.

I agree with Nancy too on most issues, although I think her health care plan is very weak, but aside from that I agree on most other issues.

She's not a good politician, has no experience as a politican, nor as a campaigner, where she has only had failure and tries to puff up her accomplishments in those areas, by saying things like "she lost to Barack Obama, as if of course she lost to one of the rising stars in the Democratic party, as would anyone in that race have lost to him.

[PassingFair]

17. Well, I've SEEN her on the campaign trail.

She is a dynamic speaker. She tells the truth.
She has experience running against Knollenberg.

Thanks, but my money, my time, my efforts and my
primary vote go to Nancy Skinner.

[bfealk]

11. It's not just for running

It's because Nancy continues to not tell the truth about her record and other issues. Plus, I have the same goal as everyone here does, putting a quality Democrat in to the seat held by Joe Knollenberg. I have put myself at personal risk to get the public to open their eyes to the terrible record of Joe Knollenberg, so I feel that I personally have a dog in the hunt in this race.

The only reason I got so involved in this race personally, is that I truly felt that Nancy would stay out of the race this time around. I was ecstatic when Gary Peters jumped in the race, a quality Democrat with a solid progressive record that also has proven fund raising capabilities.

I was extremely disappointed when, after saying she might get in the race for several months, Nancy jumped back in.

Anyone can run, and Nancy is certainly entitled to run, but I question her judgment when we already have a strong, progressive candidate in Gary Peters with a proven record on the important issues and Nancy is all talk, that's what she used to do for a living. Her experience does not include any elective office. And she's 0-2 running for elective office, not someone that would instill a lot of confidence if she were interviewing for the job. I suppose she could say I almost closed the deal last time, so I'm sure I can close it this time, but apparently she didn't close the deal in IL when she chose to run for her first elective office for the U.S. Senate. To me that's like just graduating from college and applying for a CEO job at a major corporation. And she hasn't done anything since her last run to improve her resume'.

In 2006, when all the signs were against John Ashcraft, who was running against Nancy prior to the primary deadline, withdrew his name because Nancy had gotten major endorsements, raised more money and had everything going her way. John was gracious in throwing his support to Nancy. I wish that Nancy had done the same thing, assessed the situation, looked at the facts and graciously thrown her support to Gary Peters. But that was not to be, unfortunately.

[maddogesq]

13. Hack eh?

I gaurentee the people that know me personally wouldn't say that. And to say I sit at the computer everyday waiting for Brucey to spew his venom and lies completely false. to answer every one of his nasty posts would be a 24/7 job to say the least. In fact, I only post here on average once, maybe twice a week depending on what I spot.

I need not tell you how much local effort I put in every election, because I am not one to brag. The venom spewers are a different story. DU is such a large site that there are many in all forums. Like Bush, they are all hat, no cattle.

Passingfair is correct in that no one has bad-mouthed Peters. I simply said that he would have not done any better against Joe last time than Nancy did.

I cannot sit by and say nothing when threads such as this are started. They are unproductive, and do nothing but show just how evil people can be.

[bfealk]

14. You keep saying I'm lying

but you haven't pointed out even one thing that I have lied about. I haven't lied about one fact about Nancy, that I'm aware of, while on the other hand, the same thing can't be said about Nancy.

Just saying I'm lying doesn't make it so.

[maddogesq]

16. Let's address this piece by piece. The item about being fired...

by the First Gentleman, for starters. Do you deny this statement, although it was not true?

You never directly answered points I make, such as the one above that your speculation that Obama did not know Skinner in in 2002? Speculations are lies in my book, because some readers take them as fact if they are told the same thing over and over. Coleman Young was famous for saying that "If you lie to people long enough, they'll believe you." Have you considered a career with Fox?

There are more tasty tidbits, but you get the idea. You spew your criticisms, but offer nothing constructive.

Do you deny that despite lack of REAL support by the DNC or MDP in 2006, Nancy came very close? You claim that she cannot fundraise on her own, yet she did at the grassroots and combined that with a real persona to nearly beat the Goliath called Old Joe.

There are more lies, especially regarding campaign staff and the like. I know these things because I bother to ask questions...in person.

I am sure there are some on this board who do not know me. I like that, because truth is inviiably real.

[maddogesq]

18. Come on Bruce, I know you are reading.

You should have answereed this straight away by now, as you do everything else. Give me documentation! What's wrong? Chichenshit? Answer me, you freak. I think I will call you bfreak. OK, I'll stop. No point in arguing with a closet Repub.

You have YET to respond to me in a direct fashion with true factual info. Why do I deal with you? Because you rep the same idiots I have dealt with my whole life, who some have said is totally useless. You are an attack dweeb, You are what is wrong with the Democratic Party right now.

[bfealk]

20. I don't look for your rantings every 5 minutes

The only thing I will respond to this message is that calling me a closet Republican is like calling Al Gore a closet Republican. That one did hurt. LOL

You sure seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Why don't you grow up and get real. Oh, if you had any courage you'd reveal your real name so that people know who to attribute your hateful speech to. I'm just trying to deal with electoral reality and you think it's hell.

[maddogesq]

22. Venom rebound.

OK, I sorry, maybe I was a bit over the top, but how do you think Skinner feels when she sees venom and rumors towards her that are unjustified? It's the schoolyard bully thing, where the person that starts stuff constantly gets brought down to size. Did you ever see "A Christmans Story" where Ralphie snaps and beats the tar out of that bully?

As far as what you call "hateful speech" I would say that it is an example of the pot calling the kettle black. You start anti-Skinner threads. Have I ever started an anti-Peters thread? I did do part one of what will be a multi-part series on Skinner v. Pters ON THE ISSUES, and why I support Skinner.

Electoral reality is an area where you and I will have to agree to disagree. My only adivse to you is take a look at national trends, because this county resembles that more and more every day.

Oh, and if you cannot figure out who I am, don't worry yourself. You have a lot on your plate, so I cannot expect you to observe everything that goes on around these parts.

[bfealk]

25. Rumors?

I am not so sure they're rumors. There have been very interesting postings on Michigan Liberal regarding her departure from Dan Mulhern's office.

What national trends are you referring to?

I don't think anything I've said has been hateful, I'm just trying to point out the facts and you think they're hateful. Nancy continues to lie to her supporters and potential voters and I will continue to point out her lies when she tells them, or maybe some are more properly termed half or one-quarter truths. Either way, she's not being honest with us and there appears to be a cover-up going on regarding her behavior in Traverse City and why she left Mulhern's employ, but to be clear, I don't know that for a fact, but there are people that appear to know more than I do that aren't being forthcoming with information. If the situation is being covered up, I think it's dangerous and whatever happened will leak out eventually.

[bfealk]

19. Ok. let's see here

You're right, I don't have the facts on why Nancy left the first gentleman's employ. There are some very nasty rumors out there though and one person on Michigan Liberal claims there will be affidavits from wait staff that were in Traverse City that apparently were first hand witnesses to the events. I don't think I claimed to know for sure what happened, but I do believe that something more than Nancy resigning to run for Congress again was involved.

As far as Obama and Nancy influencing Obama's views on the war, to me that is sheer speculation on Nancy's part. She continuously invokes Obama's name, but there is no evidence of a relationship. She is a celebrity wannabe and she continuously invokes Air America personalities and other people like Obama as being friends of hers, for which she shows no evidence of, except for the Randi Rhodes fund raiser this year. I belive had Randi not been speaking to the Peace and Justice people that same weekend, Randi would not have come to Detroit just to help Nancy. Nancy said last time around that Al Franken, Obama and others would come to town for her, which they never did. So, in my book she lied about that. Are we supposed to vote for her because she says she knows Barack Obama, Al Franken and Randi Rhodes? Is that indicative of some sort of electoral success? Not to me it's not.

Nancy did come fairly close, but she still underperformed to the Democratic base. She can't fund raise on her own, at least I don't call raising $400,000 real fund raising, when we all know at least $2 million is needed to be competitive. How many campaign managers did Nancy go through? Why are her former staffers supporting Gary Peters this time around? You'd think if Nancy was such a great candidate they'd be willing to come back and work on her team again. I have had personal conversations with former staffers, so I have had first hand accounts of her lack of organization and lack of political savvy.

Since you seem to be so close to Nancy, how is her fund raising going? Maybe you'd like to reveal her numbers prior to the FEC reports coming out. I think everyone reading this thread would be interested in those numbers. I know I would.

Nancy did have the support of the Governor, which she got before the primary, so even though she didn't get the support of the party, she did have some powerful backing. The DCCC and MDP give support to strong candidates. It seems they determined that Nancy was NOT a strong candidate. That support has to be earned, especially from the DCCC. They look at fund raising numbers and if you meet your fund raising goals, they will jump in. Obviously Nancy did not meet the fund raising goals the the DCCC sets out for all candidates to receive financial backing. Nancy didn't earn their suppoort. Nancy seems to think that the DCCC and the MDP owe her their support. They don't.

Lastly, your name calling is childish and your anonymity is cowardly. At least everyone here knows who I am. Your cowardice is revealed by your lack of revealing your identity.

[JNelson6563]

29. Hi There!

I'm here in MI's 4th District. I've got no horse in this race and, as a Michigan Democrat, will loudly support whoever wins this contest between Peters and Skinner. Also, I am out here doing things too. I'm working with my Distirct's candidate, I'm first vice-chair of my District and, as membership chair of my local county party, I'm very busy processing the great response I'm getting to the membership mailing I just sent out to over 1500 of my closest Dem friends.

Now that I have (hopefully) established my credentials as an unbiased, in the trenches Michigan Democrat, I would like to comment on this nightmare of a "discussion". I see Bruce all over this forum trashing Nancy Skinner. His behavior is such that I have half a mind to send a few links to Mr. Peters so he could contact Bruce personally and tell him to quit acting like a schoolyard bully.

That is all.

Julie

[PassingFair]

30. Thank you, Julie!

I see that you are a proponent of primaries.

Me too.

:)

[bfealk]

21. You might want to check out

my two web sites before you accuse me of supporting Joe. www.votenoonjoe.blogspot.com and www.retirejoeknollenberg.com and you may have seen my confrontation with Joe and Trent Wisecup, Joe's chief of staff on Keith Olbermann's show. Maybe you missed it. Here it is in case you did, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc3i6XV8XXg. You might find it informative regarding my opposition to Joe and what I've been willing to endure as far as attacks from Joe and his staff.

Here's the raw footage from my confrontation with Joe and Wisecup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc3i6XV8XXg

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mich Otter]

23. So much vitriol for the Michigan board.

It is a shame so much effort is put into attacking fellow Democrats rather than accepting differences and being supportive.
When the primary is over, who will support the winner for the good of the people?
Who is man, or woman, enough to put the vitriol aside and work with the winner to improve the atmosphere for a postitive change and a win for the people in November?

[PassingFair]

26. The question is.

Why is there so much vitriol ...

just because there is a PRIMARY going on.

This is not even a case of a primary with a Democratic incumbent.

This is a REGULAR, OLD PRIMARY.

The demands that a candidate should "bow out gracefully" are beyond silly.

[SharonRB]

27. Especially when that candidate is one who

nearly won the district last time despite being outspent 7-1 and getting no support from the party on a statewide or national level because they thought it was a suicide mission.

[bfealk]

28. Where's the video?

That's the original question I posed here. It's been several weeks now and still no video. I wonder why.

[bfealk]

31. If Nancy really has the courage she says she has

she'd post the video from the Troy forum. She's just another Bush-type chicken hawk. All bite, no bark.

[JNelson6563]

32. The hardest part of an obsession

is reminding one's self that few, if any, share it. It helps to better understand why you do not get the desired reaction.

Julie

[bfealk]

33. The video is the orignal topic here

And I think if Nancy really had any courage that she claims to possess she would post the video of her appearance in Troy at the Troy Democratic Club. My assessment is that she knows that she behaved inappropriately and does not want anyone beyond the people that were there to see how she behaved and what she said.

[JNelson6563]

34. When repeating a statement ad nauseum

it does not necessarily mean you are increasing it's effectiveness.

We both know you're smarting from being called on your hostile, confrontational behavior Bruce. Let it go. Learn from it and move on. And quit acting the embarrassment to your candidate of choice. Haven't you had issues with this in the past? Have you learned nothing from previous experience?

Julie

[noamnety]

35. One thing women learn about men with controlling personalities

is to not play on their terms at all - especially those with stalker tendencies and those who blame others for their own screw-ups.

It's possible Nancy Skinner is taking that approach. It's also possible that she's simply enjoying watching Gary's campaign implode over something that happened a month or two ago, while she is continuing to move forward. It's also possible her campaign folks are impressed by the available selection of Gary's videos, and don't feel they have anything to contribute that would be up to his standards. ;)

Bfealk: Sorry (again) Gary was too disorganized/cheap/incompetent to videotape his own appearance and put himself in the position of having to beg his opponent for campaign help. I hope he appreciates you continuing to draw attention to that as well as to his youtube selection: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=%22gary+peters%22&search=Search. Looking forward to your next thread on this subject.

[JNelson6563]

36. If I were Nancy I'd have Bruce on ignore

and wouldn't give him or anyone else like him the time of day.

And you couldn't be more right about the controlling personality thing. :toast:


Julie

[JNelson6563]

37. Ignore in Real Life that is

Figured I better clarify for those who don't know that someone running for a US House seat doesn't have time for obscure political discussion boards.

;-)

Julie

[bfealk]

38. Just like a Republican

All I'm trying to do is stay on topic. Just like Republicans behaving badly, you try to attack the messenger. I would think you'd be anxious for Nancy to post the video, instead of attacking me for asking.

Oh, well, I guess I've learned my lesson and I'll make sure to have video of all of Nancy's future appearances. Then I won't have to rely on Nancy to do the right thing and post the video for all to see. I do see Nancy has some appearances at other clubs coming up in Berkley, Birmingham and Royal, so plenty of other opportunities.

I don't think Gary expected Nancy to be as aggressive as she was in Troy, and frankly, I didn't expect it either.