E-mail your Dino now.

[Oakland]

Fox News critizing Dems is to be expected. What is intolerable is Dems echoing Republican talking points.

"Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman accused Dean of sending "the wrong message to our troops, the wrong message to the enemy, the wrong message to the Iraqi people." House Speaker Dennis Hastert said, "Howard Dean has made it clear the Democratic Party sides with those who wish to surrender." Democratic senators Bill Nelson and Ben Nelson and Democratic Representative Jim Marshall all took issue with their party's chairman. "Dean's take on Iraq makes even less sense than the scream in Iowa: Both are uninformed and unhelpful," Marshall said.

Every time Dems repeat and get suckered into reacting to Republican talking points, it makes them look like complete fools. So now you have the names of the people who agree with Ken Mehlman and think their own DNC Chair ought to "shut up". Maybe we ought to tell them to shut up.

[the observationist]

1. Re: Dino

The problem in Nebraska is that Ben Nelson has to act the way he does because he really is representing his constituents. We have a majority of conservatives and this requires Nelson to be middle of the road. With respect to Dean he really creates a lot of his own problems. After the '04 election when they made Dean the party chair I was appalled. I voted for Kerry, but Dean is way out there. Which is fine for some liberals, but not this one. He has an over the top personality that turns a lot of people off. There is something to be said for being able to persuade someone in a debate without yelling and acting crazy. Dean just doesn't have those skills. It is almost like everything he says is done to get a reaction out of people. In my opinion that is unfortunate. The Dem chair should be someone that is able to unite the party rather than cause waves. I don't think my views are that different from Dean's I just think his personality is incompatible with a large portion of the Dem population. The Repugs are wrong to say that Dean is somehow affiliated with the enemy because he disagrees with the handling of Iraq, but again in some ways I think Dean brings this upon himself and in the larger scheme Dean reflects negatively on everyone upset about the Iraq war.

[Oakland]

2. Sounds like you are one of Nelson's conservatives.

I say, if it talks like an R, walks like an R, VOTES like an R - it is an R - even if it has a D after its name. So, why good is Nelson? He is just going to support Bush, anyway. Guess, Nebraska is apparently DINO country, and I find DINOs pretty appalling.

I obviously don't agree with you on Dean. He has been so ahead of everyone else. Eventually they catch up - even Kerry. Kerry's finally getting around to admit he shouldn't have voted for the war - about two years too late. Dean was right about the war, the reasons not to go, that we wouldn't be safer after Saddam was caught, and the list goes on and on and has been elaborated all over the net. Speaking the truth as a politician usually does get a reaction out of people. Dean tells the truth, and they think it is hell. I really don't agree with you that a large portion of Dems don't support Dean. The public absolutely agrees with Dean. DINO politicians - not. If you are a Nebraska liberal Dem, I would hate to meet up with a right wing nut Republican from your state. It's no wonder your state is RED. Enjoy it.

[the observationist]

3. Thanks for the encouragement and support.

Way to bring us all together.

[Oakland]

4. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.....

Too bad you didn't think about that before Nelson went after Dean, and you felt
inclined to support him. Apparently back stabbing Dean is just fine. That isn't divisive, right? Doesn't this mimic the hypocrisy of the Republicans? He can criticize Dean, Murtha, and liberals - but don't criticize the DINO Nelson.

This is exactly what I have against conservative Democrats and so called centrists. They are really Republicans taking up space in the Democratic Party. THEY cause the dissention. THEY publicly disagree and back stab people like Murtha and Dean. This includes Hillary's run to the right. Apparently their political careers are more important that taking this country back from the crazy right wingers that have captured it. They don't care about right or wrong - good or bad. All they want to do is win; and they will pander in anyway necessary to do it. Glad he's your and not mine.

[the observationist]

5. I never said you couldn't criticize Nelson.

Calm down. My only point was that you should be a little more open-minded about Dr. Dean. Other people are allowed to have opinions too. One thing that attracted me to the Democratic party last year was that party members seemed to accept outsiders whereas the Repugs would string you up if you disagreed with their el presidente. I have come across many liberals on the DU that are intolerant of differing opinions within their own party. If I don't agree with their stance on name calling then I must be a DINO too. Whatever. That attitude is just as pathetic as the conservative whack jobs who wanted me to tote the party line. What a disappointment.

[Oakland]

6. Calm down!

I would ask you to re-read your original response to me. Please note the following words/phrasing you used in your "unity" message on Dean:

--he (Dean) really creates a lot of his own problems;
-- I was appalled;
-- way out there;
--over the top;
--yelling and acting crazy;
--doesn't have those skills.
--everything he says done to get a reaction out of people;
--cause waves;
--incompatible with a large portion of the Dem population;
--reflects negatively on everyone upset about the Iraq war."

After you dismantle Dean an accuse him of being "nuts", you then say:

--"Nelson to be middle of the road;
--Which is fine for some liberals, but not this one."

FACT: Anyone who holds that opinion of Gov. Dean AND believes that Nelson is middle of the road AND is in touch with a MAJORITY of Dems is absolutely NOT A LIBERAL. You might be a Dem, but NOT a liberal. At best, you are a blue dog Dem.

"Calm down"? Apparently "passion" is something you find appalling, over the top, acting crazy, way out there, causing waves, incompatible, and reflecting negatively on the passionless.

[the observationist]

7. OK

[the observationist]

8. Re: calm down

All of my comments about Dean were based on his actions and his words and yes they are my opinion. I will admit that I was probably wrong when I stated, "his personality is incompatible with a large portion of the Dem population."

But rather than partake in a friendly debate you resort to name calling; DINO, passionless, and blue dog Dem.

I guess my criticism of Dr. Dean now makes me passionless? That's awesome!!

I never said that Nelson represented the majority of Dems and I don't think I implied it either. I said he represented his constituents. Way to take my words out of context. That doesn't lend itself to a friendly debate either.

I said in my original response to you, "I don't think my views are that different from Dean's I just think his personality is incompatible with a large portion of the Dem population. The Repugs are wrong to say that Dean is somehow affiliated with the enemy because he disagrees with the handling of Iraq…."

I guess you overlooked the part where I said that "I don't think my views are that different from Dean's....” and “The Repugs are wrong to say that Dean is somehow affiliated with the enemy because he disagrees with the handling of Iraq….”

And lastly, based on your comments you are basically telling me that I should follow your list of “liberal” (whatever that means. look up the word liberal in the dictionary sometime.) Democrat politicians blindly down a path. Your attitude is don't criticize my guys (Dean) I can only criticize yours (Nelson).

In short you are saying that I’m a passionless, blue dog DINO because I criticize and question your politicians.

OK.

[Oakland]

10. I give up - you win....

You never name called Dean. All of those things you said about him were really
compliments. I give up. You win.

[the observationist]

9. Re: Nelson

Another point for Oakland. Nelson (D-NE) and Johnson (D-SD) were the only Dems to vote with the Republicans on the Patriot Act filibuster today.

Criticize Nelson all you want. Dean's rants don't look so bad anymore.

[Oakland]

11. Thank You! Please take a minutes and

read this diary. It is well written and well researched. You saw your
DINO vote with the Republicans. This is NOT his first time. He is one of the
worst offenders. We need to take our party back IF we are going to take our country
back.

Truth and Mainstream: Howard Dean
http://www.scottforamerica.com/


Just 4 years ago Howard Dean was a relatively unknown Governor in Vermont. The Democrats were often his biggest challenge in the Vermont State House. Ask anyone in Vermont and they will call Dean a conservative Democrat. Although the state leans left, there are many very Republican areas, and they have a second term Republican Governor. The NRA endorsed Dean in all 5 campaigns for Governor, and he balanced the budget 12 years in a row. He supported the Gulf War and the war in Afghanistan. If he were ever to run for President, many would never have anticipated him being labeled the most liberal credible candidate.

With a single issue, the Iraq War, progressives catapulted Dr. Dean to the forefront of the Democrats running for President. He became the anti-war candidate, an insurgent. Almost all of his supporters disagreed with many of Dean’s positions on capital punishment, guns, and other issues. His supporters were so enthralled by his candidacy not because they agreed with him on all the issues, but because he wanted to change the way politics is done, to rid America of special interests and to restore the role of people in their government. In the past 3 years he has been prone to what Republicans call “gaffes.” He once said that a gaffe is when you tell the truth and somebody in Washington thinks you shouldn't have.

read more


Posted by Scott Goldstein at 12:07 AM on 12/08/05

[the observationist]

12. Scott makes good points about Dean.

Especially how conservatives have a tendency to paint liberals as anti-American. Thanks for sharing that article.