Teen fined $25,000 for cost of NH mountain rescue

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

Source: Associated Press

CONCORD, N.H. – A Massachusetts teenager who spent three nights alone on Mount Washington in April after he sprained an ankle and veered off marked trails has been fined more than $25,000 for the cost of his rescue.

Scott Mason had been praised for utilizing his Eagle Scout skills — sleeping in the crevice of a boulder and jump-starting fires with hand sanitzer gel. But authorities say he wasn't prepared for the conditions he encountered and shouldn't have set out on such an ambitious hike.

"Yes, he'd been out there in July when you could step across the brooks. And people have been out there in winter in hard-packed snow. But with these spring conditions, it was soft snow, it was deep snow," said Fish and Game Maj. Tim Acerno.

Acerno said he believes Mason's fine is the largest ever sought under a 9-year-old New Hampshire law that allows lost hikers and climbers to be charged for rescue costs. Mason's rescue was particularly expensive because the helicopters the state typically used were unavailable, and a helicopter from Maine had to be brought in, Acerno said.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_hiker_fined

[Kceres]

1. Hmmm. Sometimes teenagers don't have the best judgment.

The fine seems harsh to me. He's probably suffered enough anyway. Smarter, wiser now.

[canard_2250]

28. amen to that

[XemaSab]

2. I think the fine is jacked

God forbid I should break my ankle out hiking, and be charged for the price to haul my ass out.

[billyoc]

7. He WENT hiking UP a mountain after he broke his ankle.

So, yes, God forbid you'd be that stupid, but I know you wouldn't be. :hi:

[Name removed]

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[Birthmark]

3. Ridiculous.

If they don't want to rescue people, then they should close up shop and turn it over to private industry.

[Name removed]

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[GoddessOfGuinness]

4. All I've heard and read tells me that Mt Washington is unique...

...that even professional mountaineers have miscalculated what conditions would be like.

They should give the kid a break.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

6. Mt. Washington is something else again -

we used to drive up to the weather station, and the weather would change completely going up there. Strange, strange conditions prevail there.

And, unrelated to Mt. Washington, good luck with your on-its-way grandbaby!!!! Do you know the baby's gender yet?

Just best of luck to everyone..........................

[GoddessOfGuinness]

25. It's a boy, but he's still in the oven...

Apparently my son's girlfriend was having intense contractions, and when she talked with her doctor, she was under the impression that they were going to need to do a C-section because the baby was too big. But he's still only 39 weeks along, so they want to wait at least another week unless there are serious complications.

She's a tiny little thing, and the baby's almost 7 pounds, so I can understand why she's ready to give birth. But he's just not ready yet.

Now I should post this in the Lounge. :hi:

[Name removed]

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[Mopar151]

14. Unique

One of the things that is unique about the White Mountains is that you can be in world-class trouble - Im talkin Himalayas, Canadian Rockies, Mt. Denali kinda trouble - within a 2 hour walk of a paved road.
And this is routinely ignored, despite signs at the trailheads, published warnings ad infinitum, and an activist, volunteer, world class Mountain rescue - by kids who think a cellphone is Batman's toolbelt!

[jlg2450]

36. haggis

[rucognizant]

17. ANd yet..............

We smokers are under permanant fines for our actions..........Stupid hiking, poor judgement, is OK because it is a "healthy" activity!
I am 70, my SS income is $5.14 per hour, the inducement of 10 more years of life if I stop, isn't much of a reward in our corporatocracy.............faschistic society!
Even the inducement of an extra $200. per month saved if I stop, ( subject myself to hourly, daily, monthly torment) isn't DIDDLY SQUAT, compared to what I used to earn, job satisfaction, intellectual challenge, enjoyed pre reagan faschist state!
$200. per week for what? To buy more plastic crap? It won't even buy me an overnight stay in Portland, unless I don't eat while I am there!

[Name removed]

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[DURHAM D]

5. Good. The kid used bad judgment.

He sprained his ankle and kept climbing instead of going back and then tried a shortcut that got him into trouble.

[Duckhunter935]

8. Agree nt

[Name removed]

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[Mojorabbit]

9. I don't expect any teen

to have the wisdom that an adult would have in the same situation. If his parents can't afford to help him with the fine what do they do then? Jail him? Jail his parents? Garnish every wage he makes at a summer job for years?

[depakid]

11. My bet is that New Hampshire is going after a recovery from the homeowner's policy

[jlg2450]

40. Saskatchewan

[jlg2450]

38. blade runner

[Psephos]

10. Govt. charges some who get in trouble from their shortsightedness, and reimburses others

Example. Indigent teen girl the same age gets drunk, gets pregnant, carries to term. Her actions will cost government a lot more than the kid on the mountain, but instead of charging her, govt. will start sending her checks. Where is the essential difference between these two acts of recklessness?

I can think of many more examples, most of which don't involve teens, but you get the idea.

[LiveLiberally]

15. One big difference....Sex is a mutual act.

Are you assuming the male involved in your hypothetical example was not being reckless? If not, why do you ignore his responsiblity and focus entirely on the "indigent teen girl"?

[jlg2450]

42. idaho

[FormerOstrich]

16. I was thinking of

a zillion like analogizes. I think LiveLiberally took it a little literal and missed your point.

I'm not sure he acted reckless as much as used poor judgment, as many do as a teenager. I sure the hell don't mind my tax dollars going to this type of rescue (easy for me to say in Arizona ;) ).

I am really curious where the unavailable helicopters are at. Would they be in Iraq? I hope they contest and win!

[LiveLiberally]

20. I hope you're right...

about my taking the post too literally.... As for your point, I agree entirely. Using public funds to save lives is always money gladly spent IMHO. I also can think of extreme cases where there should be some personal accountability, but a lost teenager with a sprained ankle certainly isn't one of them.

[jlg2450]

44. Southampton

[jlg2450]

43. costa rica

[NeoConsSuck]

18. Apples and Oranges

This teenager (and many others) put rescuers lives in danger.

[FormerOstrich]

21. I think teenagers...

and particularly 17 year old's (at least if you ask my mother) are prone to putting a lot of people in danger with their behavior in general. I'm surprised as many survive their teenage years as they do (me in particular). Sure am glad they didn't impose a huge debt on me because I was incredibly stupid (at 19 not 17)...drove my car into a telephone pole and was in intensive care for 2 months. yes, alcohol was a factor but I had been asleep....long story.... I am damn lucky! I just hurt me but my life could have been very different now.

A 17 year old hiker with survival skills is worth going after.

on edit...

he certainly was much more worthy of a rescue than I was. The jaws of life saved me. I am extremely grateful they came and got me...

[jlg2450]

45. oxford

[pampango]

23. It will be an interesting judgment call, if/when the government decides which medical

procedures to cover under a public option and which will not under be (and under what circumstances) based on the shortsightedness or poor judgment of the individual. For most often medical issues caused or aggravated by personal choice (smoking, drinking, drugs, obesity, etc.) coverage will have to be provided because that's the rationale for having guaranteed health care to begin with. But there will be financial pressure (limited budgets) to charge people for expenses linked to irresponsible behavior.

That said, it is much better to have the government making that call than private health insurance companies.

[jlg2450]

46. greenland

[jlg2450]

41. nissan skyline

[kiva]

12. When I lived in Colorado, when you bought a fishing license

a portion of the fee went to Search and Rescue, sort of an insurance policy. If you ever needed S&R you wouldn't be charged, even if it was your own stupid. I knew several skiers who bought fishing licenses just for this reason; don't know if it's still the situation.

[Piewhacket]

13. Next they'll be charging for using the sidewalk, breathing, and rape kits.

[dddem]

19. If memory serves me,

I believe this fine was enacted a few years ago after a few rescues took place during dangerous conditions, risking the lives of the rescuers, to save some folks who should not have put themselves in the position they were in. Unfortunately, this kid will end up being the test case. I can see both sides of this issue. People get themselves in these situations without thinking, or considering the consequences, or the risk others take to save their butts, and are lauded as celebreties when they get saved, and these poor rescuers risk life and limb to get idiots out of trouble they should have had common sense enough not to be in in the first place. Must be frustrating.
Then on the other hand, you get this poor kid, trying to do all the right things, and he ends up in a heap o' trouble because of the dumbasses that came before him. Sounds like a lose-lose situation to me.
Peace.

[FormerOstrich]

22. nice post...

:peace:

[Mopar151]

24. What he said n/t

[Piewhacket]

26. What to say to dddem who, in sweet reasoned tones, professes to "see both sides"...

then promptly demonstrates s/he has no apparent thoughtful understanding of
either side. Oh what to say?

What is the problem here. Think. Extraordinary fine, unpredictable and based on
ordinary conduct or negligence, and uninsured. Nuts? You bet.

Misadventure is a risk all of us bear. You drive your car into
the person in front of you. Consequences? Sure, your insurance (that you are
required by law to have) goes up. Ouch. What if, in addition, the police charged
you for the accident investigation, for the emergency vehicles that were
summoned, even if not used, and you were also "fined" for disrupting
a public through fare (which your accident indisputably did) and the costs
and fine was $150,000 and based on a claim (whether or not true) that you were
careless. Such fines are not subject to discharge in bankruptcy, so suppose your
insurance declined to cover the fine. You, and your family, are destroyed.
Do you see this "side"?

More, it is too fundamental and basic premise that if your house catches fire, that
police and fire departments will be summoned to secure the area and put out the blaze.
No charge is made for this service. Community taxes pay the fire department, the cost of the
truck and fire hose, and police salary and uniforms. The community funds the basic
emergency response because it is to the benefit of the community and creates an environment
of managed risk where private insurance then may insure the remaining unacceptable risk.

Police and fire response is ordinarily the responsibility of government. That includes rescues.
For lets face facts, communities without basic fire and police cannot get house insurance,
or loans to build houses or businesses. Without police and fire there IS no civilization,
merely a collection of cardboard huts defended by stick wielding neanderthals (in other
words, republiwhacks, am I RIGHT?) Now do you see this "other side"?

Actually, isn't this situation is just too fundamental to have "two sides"?

Although of doubtful parentage, wisdom, and even more questionable application,
laws of the kind here are routinely enforced, much as traffic fines. After all,
however false the claim or abusive the speed trap few people are willing to protest
and appeal a traffic fine nor to appeal a "rescue fine" which is capped at $500
and reasonably based on FACTS that would support a claim of reckless endangerment.

But that ISN'T the case here. Here there are not "two sides", there is only what
was reported in the article, which does not provide facts which would REASONABLY
support a claim of reckless conduct (assuming that were relevant).
Instead the facts presented paint exactly the opposite picture.
Is this bad or biased reporting? Possibly, but those who would clarify (and
possibly call the reporter bad names) would better present opposing FACTS from
the case that makes this fine sensible, if that were possible.

Instead, based on the presentation, what is apparent is the "fine" here is extraordinary,
excessive (and outrageous) and appears an abuse of office and the law in question by an out
of control public official. THAT is what makes the story newsworthy.
However, as an "out of control public official" story, it is (unfortunately) quite ordinary.

In this case the fine should be contested and, because the fine an abusive application of law by an out
of control public official the agency who brought it and possibly the official PERSONALLY should
be required to pay the extraordinary legal expenses needed to defend against it.
That should be about $80,000. Bon appetite.

[canard_2250]

27. how sad

[jlg2450]

29. ridiculous

[BroccoliTowel]

47. it's reasonable that he be asked to pay costs

but not to this extent. There are issues here. Did he call for the rescue, signal them in some way?

Fifth and eight amendment issues.

[elias7]

48. Story over two years old- from July 2009

[onyourleft]

49. Then why did you...

...post here since it was originally posted in 2009?

[Name removed]

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