Lautenberg and Menendez voted for torture?

[latebloomer]

I cannot believe this. I am in shock.

What the hell is the explanation for this???

[mcscajun]

1. There can be NONE.

I AM Depressed...and ashamed of my Senators tonight.

[latebloomer]

2. I am so pissed off at myself as well

I never got around to calling them about this because I ASSUMED I could count on them. (You know what they say about assuming.)

They'll hear from me tomorrow-- now that it's too late.

I am just so upset and furious.

[karynnj]

4. I hate to admit it but you are not the only one.

Never in a million years would I have guessed that Senator Lautenberg would vote for it.

[bunny planet]

8. same here, I am stunned. I spent my phone calls with Reid, Snowe, and

Collins. Didn't think I needed to call my own Senators. Now I wish I had.
Tomorrow I will let them know just how displeased and ashamed I am of their votes today.

[theanarch]

3. not much of a surprise here...

...for all his neo-liberalism, Lautenberg always was a 'security hawk', especially with anything to do with Israel; and i've seen his name on letterhead for the successor organization for PNAC. As for Menendez, obviously he's trying to outflank Tom Kean JUNIOR on the right, by positioning himself as being tough on terrorism, when, in fact, he's just being stupid on foreign policy. By doing so, he's just pissed off (tens of?) thousands of anti-war/progressive/independents who would have voted for him, however grudgingly, and probably insured Kean's victory in the process. And, FWIW, the votes by Sherrod Brown, Harold Ford and others probably doomed whatever chances Democrats had for taking either the House or Senate, by demoralizing/alienating their base, without ingratiating themselves with other voters.

[Kire]

20. What is "the successor organization for PNAC"

[theanarch]

25. i believe it's called something...

...like the Defense of Freedom Foundation, and has all the usual neo-con suspects (Wm. Kristol, Frank Gaffney, Newt Gingrich, etc...but not current administration officials; neo-lib's like Jeanne Kirkpatrick; and a few Dem's, like Lautenberg and Rep. Eliot Engel--NY)...try google; something might turn up.

[karynnj]

26. Lautenberg?

That just seems weird as he usually votes the way we want him to.

[Jersey Devil]

5. Do yourself a favor and ask some strangers tomorrow

On your way to work ask strangers what "habeas corpus" means. They won't know. If Menendez voted no Kean would say he's weak on terror and would let terrorists go free based on some 'legal technicality'. And it would work. Hell, a third of America still thinks Saddam Hussein destroyed the World Trade Center and you think they'd understand an argument about the importance of habeas corpus?

Yeah, sure, they (Menendez and other Dems who voted yes)are posturing and yeah, they did it because they were afraid to say what they really feel. It's all about compromising in order to fight another day. Sometimes you have to suck it up and do things you don't want to do in order to survive.

Don't agree? Then enjoy the new senator from New Jersey, Tom Kean.

[bettyellen]

6. yeah, standing up for NOTHING has served us so fucking well.

they are helping the repubs wipe their asses with the constitution like a bunch of half wits.

and kean's already got it in the bag, and i don't feels so bad about it. menendez is a fucking grifter.

[Jersey Devil]

7. Menendez voted No on IWR

Your profile says you are from NY. How did Hillary vote on IWR? Schumer?

Which is worse? Authorizing the deaths of people based on bullshit like they were presented with or Mendendez vote today? What makes them any holier than Menendez?

"Grifter"? That was pretty crude.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. To put it quite succinctly:

Fuck the both of them very much. They will get nothing from me.

It's time to stop propping up the empty suits.

[bettyellen]

10. i'm not enabling this bullshit anymore either

[bettyellen]

11. welll hillary hasn't been caught on tape accepting bribes either

and i live in nj, not that that gives me any more right less right to an opinion. i've met menendez many many times. so yeah, i'm disappointed. can't wit to ask him face to face about this next time i see him. :puke:

[Jersey Devil]

14. Who was 'caught on tape accepting bribes'?

Not Menendez. Even in the wildest spinning of the news stories that has never been alleged.

The sum total of the 'allegations' against Menendez is that someone dropped his name in a taped conversation asking someone else to do something unethical (hire a doctor). There wasn't any bribe involved even for the person accused and it is the subject of a civil, not criminal suit in which Menendez isn't even a party.

Yet you repeat Keane trash talk. Thank you for your support.

[bettyellen]

15. oh i forgot his point man "asked for favors" for bob like a don...

"In the transcript, Scarinci is quoted as saying, "If you can deal with Dr. Ruiz and make him happy, Menendez will consider that a favor, if you can't, then that's okay ... you can't."
Scarinci later says hiring Ruiz would give Sandoval "protection" but does not say what that meant. In court documents filed in March, Sandoval said "protection" meant that he would keep his government contracts."

the rest is gossip. unfortunately in hudson county it's usually accurate. think what you want,the ends justifies the means to you, but weakens the party tfrom where many of us sit.
peopel wonder where they "stand" and then they see shit like this, and then they know. they stand in line with their fucking hands out. that's hudson county.

[karynnj]

17. According to Democrats

speaking in Parssipany - that chage is bogus. The doctor , Sanoval (phonetic guess) is someone with major ethics problems - for false medical billing.

[karynnj]

16. Stop the RW talking points

There has been NO newspaper account or even internet rumour accusing Menendez of this, nor Hillary for that matter. The accusations made against Menehdez, are to some degree swiftboating.

- The charge that there was a conflict of interest because he rented space to a non-public that benefited by a grant he lobbied for - falla apart the non-profit had funding years before Menendez was in Congress and the rent he got was market rate.

- The charge today is from a doctor who was found quilty of false billing.

These charges are really because he is from Hudson county - which the Republicans feel is sufficient to make the case that he is corrupt.

This violates the rules of this board. Also, as Hillery is not running in NJ - I don't understand why you are making it a choice.

[SledDriver]

21. I'm sorry, Menendez voted no on the IWR?

The IWR was voted on back in October 2002. NJ senators at that time were Corzin (nay) and Toricelli (aye).

I saw Menendez say that he voted against the IWR in one of his TV ads. It's a lie. He couldn't have voted no on the IWR because he wasn't a senator back then.

[karynnj]

22. He voted NO as a congressman, which does count

[SledDriver]

23. Yeah, I can't think before coffee.

Totally blanked on that one.

It still doesn't excuse his vote on the torture bill.

[karynnj]

24. Agreed on that

[theanarch]

27. i may not employ the same...

...pejorative language to describe Menendez, but the sentiment resonates sympatheticly enough. There are four plausible explanations for Menendez's vote: 1) he's an elitist who doesn't believe we are entitled to civil liberties (the Bill of Rights just gets in the way of riding herd on the dumb masses); 2) he's simply too ignorant or anti-intellectual to understand the importance of the issue; 3) he's cynically indifferent enough to our rights that he can sacrifice them on the alter of his political ambitions; or 4) he really does believe in civil liberties but is too big a coward to stand up and fight for them (for fear of what? a few hundred or thousand people who weren't voting for him anyway wouldn't vote for him?).

Sorry folks, but if standing up for the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Eighth, Ninth and Tenth Amendmends (and against fascism) ISN'T a litmus-test issue, then what the hell is? The reality is, on Nov. 7th, NJ will be sending a Bush/neo-con enabler to the US Senate...do you really want that to be the Democrat?

[latebloomer]

13. But most of these Dems seem to be ALWAYS afraid

of standing up for "what they really feel".

I keep waiting for the day when they'll actually stand up and fight.

Are they waiting till ALL our rights are down the toilet, and THEN they'll stand up?

Yeah, right.

[SledDriver]

18. Why not educate them then?

Why didn't Lautenberg and Menendez use the public forum to educate the people? To explain to them what Habeus Corpus is (or was)? Why continue to perpetutate the stupidity of the people?

They selfishly put their own short term electoral prospects ahead of the rights and lives of the people they supposedly represent, and violated their oathes of office (to protect and defend the Constitution) in the process. On top of that, they voted to make themselves accessories-after-the-fact to the war crimes committed by BUSHCO.

" It's all about compromising in order to fight another day." That's all the Dems seem to do anymore. Gotta keep that powder dry...

[latebloomer]

12. Both their phones were hard to get thru to this morning

especially Menendez's.

Told his office I was seriously considering voting for a third party candidate.

[FogerRox]

19. I was/am pissed, in my email, I tore both senators a new ass hole.

Saturday the 30th at Menendez Essex HQ, (I am Wyka for Congress Essex Field) I had some conversations with HQ staff, let me describe the conversations as nervous. & there were hot emotions all around. But..

Lets not lose sight of the goal. WE need to take the House back, and we can take the senate back. Politics can be a smelly bizz.

-But the stink of our 2 senators voting for this bill, in no way comes close to the stink of 1/4 million dead Iraqis and our 2700+ dead, 28k+ wounded brothers & sisters.

-The stink of our 2 senators voting for this bill, in no way comes close to the stink of Jack Abramoff, Tom Delay, HAVA, Medicare part D, Bob Ney, Randy Duke Cunningham, the assualt on the middle class, public schools, outsourcing of jobs..... etc. I think you get the idea.

SO I think you know who I am voting for..... Bob Menendez. Period. End of Story. Now get back to work, and get Bob elected.

If the Senate ends up 50-50, and Bob loses by one vote, your vote... you can be expected to be hunted down and peppered with waterballons.