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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-01-05 05:34 PM
Original message
Venezuela documentary - UNM SUB November 2, 7PM
Sounds to me like a good thing to do on "World Can't Wait" day tomorrow.

I hope some of you can make it...

------------------------
"Otro Modo es Posible... en Venezuela" ("Another Way is Possible... in Venezuela")

When: Wednesday, November 2 at 7 P.M.
Where: Luminaria room of the Student Union Building (SUB)

Film by Elisabetta Andreoli, Gabriele Muzio, Max Pugh

Message from Italian directors:

"Six months after the failed coup of 11th April 2002, we went back to Venezuela to record the political and social consciousness and the determination of the Venezuelan people in defending democracy, justice and peace. From 2nd to 11th October we filmed and collected more than 50 hours of interviews, images and archive material.
The media situation in Venezuela is very similar to Italy's own; newspapers and TV stations are firmly in the hands of an oligarchy that prevents the circulation of news, and continues to disseminate the same lies about the coup and the country.
The film tells the story of a DIFFERENT WORLD which is not only possible, but EXISTS in reality."
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great and informative piece.
Thanks for the heads up!!

Heh.
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Piotr Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Comment
Edited on Tue Nov-15-05 08:43 PM by Piotr
"The media situation in Venezuela is very similar to Italy's own; newspapers and TV stations are firmly in the hands of an oligarchy that prevents the circulation of news, and continues to disseminate the same lies about the coup and the country.
The film tells the story of a DIFFERENT WORLD which is not only possible, but EXISTS in reality."

Whoever wrote this is either a mercenary or lives in a fantasy world. Terms and phrases such as "Oligarchy" ,"Prevents the circulation of news" as well as the insinuation that there are voluntary manipulations of truth are especially insulting...

...Unless you mean by the mainstream government media.
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well...
Edited on Wed Nov-16-05 12:02 AM by phusion
http://www.soberania.org/Articulos/articulo_033.htm

That is a statement from the Italian directors of the film...This film was made shortly after the failed 2002 coup and my impression is that these are comments on the condition of VZ media at that time. Maybe it has changed since then?

Have you seen the film? What are your thoughts on Chavez?

Welcome to DU! :hi:
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Piotr Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well...
Edited on Wed Nov-16-05 01:21 AM by Piotr
The comment I posted is a statement is from a Venezuelan that has experienced the Chávez regime from its inception and has followed it closely in many aspects. I know you consider it a coup, but I do not.

I have seen parts of the film and I know it is manipulated, because I was in front of a television wathching the events when they happened, as they happened.

The state has always (or at least twenty years before Chávez) controlled media outlets in many forms, including but not limited to radio and television. Government-controlled media outlets have increased since then, however, with there being at least three new television stations coming online (VIVE, AN, Telesur).

I do not like Chávez. I think he is a delusional megalomaniac that hopes to form some sort of international pole against the United States and the Western world in general, with himself at the top. I know he thinks the ends justify the means, has no compunctions about lying or putting on a show for self-gain, is very charismatic, an exceptional orator, a master manipulator, and lenient on those who attack his adversaries in his name, unprovokedly or not. I think he is trying to enslave his population by making it chronically dependent on government hand-outs and establish a castro-like regime in favour of this international pole. And I know he does not like anyone criticising him, except perhaps for Castro, who he seems to have taken for a mentor.

And yes, thank you for welcoming me to DU, although I have posted here before.
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. With all due respect to your opinion...
do you have any specific examples that you can cite in the film that are false or misleading?

Thanks for your input.
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Piotr Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes.
Edited on Wed Nov-16-05 04:21 AM by Piotr
For example, if I recall correctly, the video makes no reference to how in the midst of the conflict the government decided to broadcast a (pre-recorded, as can be inferred by discrepancies between the actual time and the time Chávez said it was) network public address, which all media outlets , public and private, were forced to broadcast, as required by law. I'm not sure if it mentions how some private media then decided to split the screen and show the conflict on the left side and the presidential address on the right side. When the government then decided to cut all national private signals, satellite television (which I was watching) allowed still the conflict to be seen. The voice of the woman reporter seemed to show disbelief as then unidentified shooters unloaded gunfire from a bridge into a crowd of people walking below.

The video said this was staged, alleging that the cameras never showed who the shooters were shooting at (the video then cuts to a scene of an empty street). However, judging from the intensity of the shadows between the empty street scene and the scene with the shooters, it is clear that they correspond to different times of day. Some have speculated that the empty street was, in fact, a recording of the street before the demonstrators had arrived.

I'm sure the people that saw the actual shooting themselves remember it better than I do. I remember scenes of a group of people carrying bloodied bodies or running in disarray. I remember scenes of tear gas. My father was in that demonstration, although not where the bridge events happened (a few blocks away), and he suffered from it.

It does not mention, either, Chávez's direct orders to activate Plan Avila, a city defence plan that would have involved deploying the military in the city and quashing unrest (this against a largely unarmed civilan population) had not most of the high ranking officers refused (those who did not refuse, such as Jorge Luis García Carneiro, now sit in one of the higher posts of the military structure, were decorated or were lauded by Chávez as patriots). This is where the military decide to intervene and demand Chávez's written resignation, which was declared publicly through radio (although no such document has been clearly found) by one of his ranking officers (Lucas Rincón, the person that is now Minister of Domestic and Judicial Affairs). It also does not mention how the rebelling military seemed to have changed their minds and gone back on their word and, instead of letting Chávez go, held him in the military island of La Orchila, just off the Venezuelan coast. Here he was held during the events that ensued until the very same military who rebelled against Chávez withdrew their support for Pedro Carmona Estanga, the then president of the Confederacy of Venezuelan Workers (a union), after he stepped up, took power, and proceeded to dissolve all institutions formed under the Chávez regime in hastily drawn list of decrees. Loyalists in the army, among them Carneiro, calling for Chávez's supporters to "come down from the hills", a reference perhaps to the calls made in the 1992 coup attempt, then stormed the presidential palace. While Chávez was being returned by those who held him, the then vice-president Diosdado Cabello stood in as president.

The video also exaggerates the amount of people that came to show their support for president Chávez, as well as their role.

The video also fails to mention how the only helicopters allowed to fly that day were government helicopters. No other helicopter was allowed.

The video also fails to mention Chávez's reconciliatory and quiet tone just after the events when addressing the nation, apologising for publicly firing the PDVSA executives on TV and calling for peace and understanding, a tone which days afterwards flared up again in the racy, inflammatory rhethoric that so characterises him.

The video is also blatantly vilipendous in stereotyping the opposition as "a small group of rich ladies defending their privileges", and in downplaying its size, ridiculing its stance and ignoring its importance.

What do you think of this image? It dates August 12 2004, three days before the presidential recall referendum.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/
0oQCbAjwtflRZSt0RMa!aoPsXauOrX!5oIIk0Fwg7KWFox0rOJ8REAVQqJLFls!t2!
Qn**R63dkGcF61Aw75NC3l2A6lR4G5lYPBSmMJkVZVlOmuuMLFKbi1mfwCslZW2mwtim77V
NLc5tlPbX0hCyAE5RVRi2DzwaQNaz5oWqjoZ7G6f0aq8xFD1Rp8U*123ILp2ZL7eOytoIVW7T
wY0fbSFPSK4pyZDOHkg6mppPpM/Imágenes%20de%20los%20días%2012%20y%2015%20de
%20agosto%20006.jpg?dc=4675536306195236395?click

(to view, copy each line into a word processor, eliminate the spacing between the phrases, copy the link, paste it on your web browser and press enter)
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Much of what you say has no evidence.
Edited on Wed Nov-16-05 11:13 AM by Kralizec
You include a picture at the end to prove some point, what I don't know.

You say the film misrepresented the amount of people who showed up to support Chavez. Oh yeah? Prove it.

But you've given no alternative route for me to place my trust and belief in. Much of what you say sounds like a spin on the events in Caracas. Just because I don't live there doesn't I am ignorant to all that is happening. Many Americans just support Chavez because he is, as you said, charismatic and more. But not me, I've looked underneath the gloss and seen the good and the bad too. So until you can actually provide something other than images that are not very good quality, I have to disagree with you.

Respectfully, of course.

:eyes:
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Piotr Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Sources which I looked up AFTER having posted "Yes."
Audio recording of Chávez commanding the activation of Plan Avila.
http://www.urru.org/gaitas/plan_avila.mp3

Transcription:
http://www.urru.org/papers/ConversacionTiburon1_11A.htm

The Tablante Report, result of the National Assembly hearings following the events of April 11 and placing ultimate responsibility on Chávez
http://www.urru.org/papers/Informe_Tablante.htm

The hearings
http://www.urru.org/11A/interpelaciones/interpelaciones.htm

General Manuel Rosendo's hearing,
http://www.urru.org/11A/interpelaciones/MR3.htm

Transcription of Chávez's reconciliatory speech upon returning to power .
http://www.urru.org/papers/2002_varios/20020414_DiscursoTomaPosesion.htm

a.Comparative analysis between the sequence of events of the Puente Llaguno shootings through photos as presented by Le Monde Diplomatique and as presented by the analyser
b.photos of the Puente Llaguno shooters
http://www.urru.org/11A/carlanga.htm

Photographs taken during the events (April 11-April 15)
http://www.urru.org/11A/marcha.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/masacre11A_2.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/masacre11A_3.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/masacre11A_4.htm

http://www.urru.org/11A/marcha2.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/marcha3.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/marcha4.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/marcha5.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/marcha6.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/marcha7.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/marcha8.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/marcha9.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/DuranteMarcha.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos2.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos3.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos4.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos5.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos7.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos6.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos8.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos9.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos13.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos14.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos10.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/asesinatos11.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/madrugada.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/madrugada2.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/viernes12.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/viernes122.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/viernes123.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/saqueos.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/saqueos2.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/saqueos3.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/saqueos4.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/saqueos5.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/saqueos6.htm
http://www.urru.org/11A/lunes15.htm

Photographs during the hearings
http://www.urru.org/11A/interpelaciones/_imagenesinterpelaciones/fotosinterpelaciones1.htm

Photograph of the high ranking military demanding Chávez's resignation


Photograph of the divided screen

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