Source: Gov. Paterson was underwhelmed with Caroline Kennedy from the start

[TomClash]

Source: NY Daily News

She lost him at "hello."

Gov. Paterson was completely underwhelmed with Caroline Kennedy from their first conversation about Hillary Clinton's Senate seat, a source close to the governor said.

Paterson's thinking has become clearer in the two days since Kennedy withdrew her name for the Senate seat that Friday went to upstate Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-Hudson).

Friends said Paterson was adamant that she was never going to be appointed, even though she was considered the front-runner.

Paterson was turned off when Kennedy first called him and asked if she "could" be considered for the seat.

By asking if she could, rather than saying she wanted to be considered, Paterson immediately felt she wasn't really interested, the source said.

In meetings, the governor and his aides decided she had no political depth, the source said.

She had no firmly held views and little idea about why she wanted the job, the source said.

Her abysmal public rollout cemented the governor's fears that she had no political instincts.

The governor felt the sheltered Kennedy had no communication skills and absolutely no empathy with the voters, the source said.

He was amazed that she went upstate for a day to meet with political leaders but didn't walk around to chat up regular people.

"She just lived in a bubble," the source said.

The nonstop Kennedy coverage, at the expense of the others Paterson was considering, also irked the governor, friends said.

He felt it made the other candidates look like they were second-best. He also felt she lacked the ambassadorial skills to make the case for New York.



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/01/23/2009-01-23_source_gov_paterson_was_underwhelmed_wit.html

---

This is a nasty, gratuitous hit piece - given the way Paterson has handled this soap opera, the jokes just write themselves. "His thinking has become clearer" - LOL! When Caroline asked if she "could" be considered she was obviously trying to be gracious and humble - which is her style.

NY Dems will definitely have primaries in 2010 - I doubt I will be supporting either Paterson or Gillibrand.

[Pirate Smile]

1. Would they just STFU! This is making Patterson look like an ass, not Caroline.

Shuddup already!

[TomClash]

3. You're absolutely right nt

[NashVegas]

36. He IS An Ass

For a moment, let's assume the OP article is truthful:

You're the governor of a highly influential state and have known for two years that you might have a US senator vacating their chair to become POTUS.

18 months in, it becomes apparent your Senator won't be POTUS but might very well have some other reason to vacate the chair.

Undoubtedly, other politicians within your state make their ambitions for the chair known to you, and you're keeping that in the back of your mind.

V-day comes for the vacating Senator and now it's time to name a replacement. Out of left field you get a phone call from a very influential non-pol with a great record of public service, who played no small role in the ascendance of the incoming POTUS, who lets you know she wants to be considered for the seat.

Only, unlike women who've been in modern high-pressure politics or working worlds long enough to behave with aggression, as a man would in this situation, what she's doing is asking you, as many working women seeking promotions do, would it be worth her while to put herself out and state her case.

You're thinking, "no fucking way," but you don't want to start off on the wrong foot with the incoming POTUS a la Blago.

You:

1. Tell her and POTUS you already have a candidate in mind who you believe will do a great job of representing the people of NY

2. Lie through your teeth she has a chance, delay, delay, delay naming a pick and have your people spend six weeks leaking to a paper guaranteed to ridicule POTUS's fave while saying virtually nothing negative about the other candidates, in hopes she'll see the writing on the wall and withdraw.

Okay, fair enough. But what happens when she doesn't withdraw, and you're too afraid of offending POTUS to play it straight? Paterson could have told her right out, but instead he took the chicken-shit route and let the press chew her up when she was never in real consideration.


There's no law that said Paterson had to spare CK any embarrassment, if anything, she may have gotten a good lesson out of it, to see first hand what Hillary Clinton was put through for 8 months. But Paterson still looks weak, and his people's ongoing trashing of CK makes him look petty as all hell to keep adding injury to insult.

[EFerrari]

37. I wonder who planted this and why. It's rubbish. n/t

[Thrill]

2. He's not exactly impressive himself. Say Hello to Governor Andrew Cuomo

[BlueManDude]

22. I'm afraid that we'll end with a GOPer Gov, Sen and US Rep filling all 3 of those spots

Paterson is a jackass.

[Dennis Donovan]

4. "Nasty" doesn't even cover it...

:thumbsdown:

[fishnfla]

5. Palin: "it will be interesting to see how they handle her"

yeah sarah, she was given a pass, you betcha

[kstewart33]

6. Caroline's handling of her candidacy was poor.

And Paterson's was far worse. Stalling, stalling, stalling. Looking indecisive, like he couldn't make up his mind. Saying just a few days ago that he was leaning in one direction but was still thinking about it.

The entire situation doesn't help Caroline, but at no real cost to her. Paterson's behavior will cost him dearly when he actually runs for the governorship.

[Baby Snooks]

14. Stinks to high heaven...

I have to wonder if someone urged her to make the call and pursue this knowing it would be a disaster.

She is a princess. Nothing wrong with that, really, except we learned through the tragedy of Princess Diana that there is no such thing as a princess of the people. We have our places in our life. Caroline's is at the Kennedy Library. Keeping the flame alive there.

As for places, it was and is our place to "slice and dice" if we choose.

It is not Paterson's place, however, to do so and it only serves to further the question of whether Caroline was set up.

New York needed a new senator. New York now needs a new governor.

Paterson would be more suited to running a tabloid than a state.

[NashVegas]

38. She Was Never Supposed To Have Been a *Candidate*

Any more than anyone else who has taken up a Senate chair was treated as a candidate. *Everyone* else was treated as a potential governor appointment, while Kennedy, alone, was forced to prove herself to the press and wider voting public.

[Riley18]

7. Paterson is less than underwhelming himself. New York deserves better.

[skeewee08]

8. I am really not liking this guy!

[Township75]

9. Well even if the gov. is an ass, Caroline was awful!

How could anyone do such a poor job for a senate seat if she were truly interested? It seems that she was thinking that "legacy" was enough for her to get it.

[salguine]

11. Like OMG. You're obviously a hater, Just a hater. A total hater. You know? A hater.

[bottomtheweaver]

10. Oh please. He caved to the, ahem, conservative Dems

and fiddled around for a month waiting for them to find a way to take down Caroline, which they finally did. He's a clown.

[DrZeeLit]

30. As noted by the whole NRA-Upstate-Hockey Mom thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that...but

didja notice she immediately changed her tune about gay marriage?
Hmmm.
Suppose that was the one compromise to get the seat?

She's probably a goner in the first election.

And yes... I'm betting Patterson shot himself in the foot and Andrew Cuomo is on the to the guv's mansion come next election.

As for Caroline Kennedy -- you can say all you want about her, but she didn't need the job, she's another Kennedy who wants to SERVE. I think that's the operative word to take from this. Some people just want to SERVE with no other reason and no other agenda. She'll land on her feet and when she does WE are the ones who will benefit from her SERVICE.

[bottomtheweaver]

39. What the media did to Caroline was grotesque,

as were the sing-along vultures joining in the butchery. As far as I'm concerned the US media is effectively controlled by the CIA "mockingbirds" who are known to have infiltrated it since the 1960s, and the Kennedys are their number one target, so I wasn't surprised at what they did to Caroline. I WAS surprised and disgusted that Paterson and certain Dem partisans (ahem) played along. Talk about complicity.


Operation Mockingbird:

"Operation Mockingbird was a secret Central Intelligence Agency campaign to influence domestic and foreign media beginning in the 1950s. The existence of this operation was made public during the Church Committee investigation in 1975 (published 1976)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

"Operation Mockingbird: CIA Media Manipulation"
“The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media.”
–William Colby, former CIA Director
http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/operation-mockingbird-cia-media-manipulation/

[bottomtheweaver]

12. He also gave conflicting reasons for not picking Cuomo

"He never asked" was one of them. Right. This guy lies ten different ways every sentence.

[salguine]

13. I can't help but notice that high-profile female candidates (or would-be candidates) are

referred to by their first names by certain core groups of supporters. "Hillary". "Caroline". Personally I think it's a little odd and somewhat telling, but I'm not sure what to make of it. You didn't see Obama's supporters constantly refer to him as Barack, or McCain's supporters as John, or whatever.

I'm not imagining things, and I don't believe it's nothing. I get the impression that some people kind of convince themselves that they have some kind of close personal relationship with these candidates.

I'm no psycholoist; I'm just noticing something I find curious. I'm interested in knowing what others make of this.

[Township75]

15. That's an interesting observation.

I never noticed, nor have I heard anyone else bring it up, but as I think about it, I have to say that has been the case.

[TomClash]

19. I suppose this is a shot at me

I've met all of the people you mentioned but don't have any relationship with any of them. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise by using Caroline Kennedy's first name.

:eyes:

[Pirate Smile]

21. One issue with Hillary and Caroline is that they come from political dynasties where simply the

last name does not make clear who is being discussed. Kennedy can mean Ted or John or Bobby or Patrick, etc. Clinton can mean Bill or Hill.

Kirsten Gillibrand wont be referred to as Kirsten too much because the last name will make it clear to most people who is being discussed. Same with Palin. Same with Feinstein and McCaskill.

I've seen Barack used a lot but it isn't necessary because Obama isn't exactly going to cause confusion. People use both. His name is unique whichever name people use.

Using John for McCain or Joe for Biden doesn't work very well because there are too many Johns and Joes.

Hillary pushed using Hillary in her campaign. It was on her signs and bumper stickers.

I think the name issue has more to do with family dynasties and less to do with gender.

[Demit]

42. I absolutely agree with this. Esp. when the relatives are still active in public life.

Perhaps if they each had a more common name, like Mary, they couldn't & wouldn't be so identifiable by their first names. Also, though I can't prove it, there's something about three-syllable first names that seems to make using them alone somehow sufficient as a stand-in for a full name, more so than a one or two-syllable first name. Something about the cadence.

[GoesTo11]

29. Don't think that's it.

There's another factor in both these cases. Both Hillary Clinton and Caroline Kennedy shared last names with well-known presidents and in fact came to be known because of that relation. People feel like they known them personally. People felt pain for the two of them during their different troubles and losses. Heck, Neil Diamond wrote a song about cute little Caroline. As for Hillary Clinton, I think she benefited from the little brand differentiation she got that way.

There are mostly female celebrities like Oprah and Madonna who kind of make this acceptable. But then there are male celebrities - not at quite the same echelon - who do the same thing. A lot of rappers, for instance (Snoop, Diddy - or is that a last name?), Fabio,...

What about women without that special circumstance? People don't call Pelosi "Nancy", or Dianne Feinstein "Dianne" or Ruth Bader Ginsburg "Ruth". Even Elizabeth Dole who took on the more unique nickname "Liddy" was referred to as "Liddy Dole" or "Elizabeth Dole"

What about men with that circumstance? They call Bush II "W", among other things. I don't suppose JFK Jr. was called John-John that often. But neither was he just called John, he was JFK Jr. It's hard to think of other good parallel cases. But how about Princes Charles, Harry, William, etc.?

[bertman]

34. Apparently you have a selective vision and hearing problem, salguine. Barack Obama's supporters

were constantly referring to him as "Barack" and still are for that matter. . . as if they are best buddies with him. Something that irritates me to no end. He is President Obama. Thank you.

[salguine]

49. My hearing and vision are fine. I paid as much attention to the whole

campaign as anyone, and I don't recall large numbers of Obama supporters referring to him as Barack. "Constantly"? Nah.

[Rhiannon12866]

54. You're right, but there could be another reason.

The monikers "Kennedy" and "Clinton" were already taken, by Senator Kennedy and President Clinton. ;) They came first and have higher profiles, and nobody's confused about who someone's referring to. :shrug:

But then I, like a lot of people on DU, refer to my favorite presidential candidate as "Dennis." My friend gets annoyed at me because I don't actually know him. But everybody here knows who we're talking about... :-)

[floridablue]

16. Accidental Governor

I would bet he would have never been Lt. Governor if there was any thought he would ever be Governor. He Sucks.

[elocs]

17. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive: that Paterson looks bad and CK was an underwhelming choice.

I believe that Paterson's points were mostly valid and what Caroline Kennedy mostly had was a name. Otherwise she was a lightweight. It sure seemed like when she thought she wasn't going to get the nomination she got royally pouty and quit before it happened. Paterson may not have made the best choice, but I think it is a better one than Caroline Kennedy.

[Boomer]

18. Couldn't agree more

Paterson's assessment mirrors my own in terms of his reservations with Kennedy. Her appointment would have been a major disappointment and a concession to her sense of entitlement.

[TomClash]

20. Two points

1. His actions were a disgusting breach of etiquette - he shouldn't be revealing his interviews for the job.

2. We don't know how she interviewed - this is Paterson's spin.

[Baby Snooks]

23. Actually we do...

She didn't interview any differently with Paterson than she did with everyone else. And it was a disaster. The point is, however, we didn't need Paterson to remind everyone. He is, in a word, appalling.

[TomClash]

44. Actually we don't

We only know his take on their private meeting. But my point was not her qualifications or interviewing skills, but Paterson's behavior, which we agree was appalling.

[mnhtnbb]

24. I was underwhelmed with the speech given by Paterson's appointee.

I thought she sounded like she was accepting the presidency of her 8th grade class. She definitely
needs to upgrade not only her image, but her tone and use of words in order to project a more mature
presence.

[goforit]

25. Well New York is underwhelmed with Paterson......So much for his career.

[Gman]

26. This is not a hit piece. It's brutally honest

EVerything in the OP attributed to Paterson is what I came to think about Caroline. At first I thought she would be great and I got irked at people here that slammed her. I got irked because they knew as little about her as we all did. They only complained because she was a Kennedy. But now that I know more about here, I sure as hell wouldn't want her as a US Senator. She seems to have almost no personality, she comes across as weak, she's not aggressive, I have no idea what her beliefs are other than what I can only assume because she's a Kennedy. And when she ran from the press in upstate NY I thought, hell, she's going to run for a full term in 2 years and she's dodging the press? What's wrong with this picture?

Paterson made the right decision in not appointing Caroline. I would love for there to be another Kennedy in the Senate, especially since Teddy won't be around a whole lot longer. But that Kennedy can't be Caroline.

[eilen]

27. Paterson is being honest, explaining his process since there was so

much mystery, criticism and conjecture regarding it. What else can he say?

At first I didn't think it was such a big deal if Caroline was appointed, I thought it would probably be ok but then she came to my hometown, Syracuse...

I realized she has no freaking idea how to represent us, hell, she wouldn't even talk with us.

[Baby Snooks]

28. He's being an asshole...

First he says this. Then he says that. This or that all he seems to want to do is slam Caroline Kennedy. Why?

I smell Hillary Clinton all over the place. How dare the Kennedys snub the Clintons.

Maybe the Kennedys finally figured the Clintons out?

[LeFleur1]

31. Yeah Yeah

It's all Hillary's fault. Sometimes the statements made on this forum are more ridiculous than anyone would expect on a forum such as this.

[Libertyfirst]

32. I am underwhelmed with him. Always have been. He is sworn in

as Governor, succeeding one ambushed by the Bush Administration, and immediately has to call in reporters and explain his own multiple affairs. Nice. New York deserves better.

[djg21]

52. Spitzer wasn't ambushed by anyone.

Bruno, Hank Greenberg and others from Wall Street certainly were gunning for him, but Spitzer and his own hubris were responsible for his downfall.

Why to fuck the asshole is now offering his opinion on talk radio is a complete mystery to me.

He should crawl back under his rock -- which may be gilded but is still a rock.

[Piewhacket]

33. This is an obvious repuk hit piece by KENNETH LOVETT

to hit both kennedy and patterson.
we've seen this swift-boating crap before.

the clue was when Lovett started quoting a "source"
too cowardly to go on record, assuming there was
a "source" that wasn't just residing in Lovett's butt,
which I'll bet it was.

Not that Patterson has covered himself with glory on this
appointment either. And Its not like he didn't have a pretty
good idea an appointment was probable.

Anyway, it would be nice if one of these appointments could be
handled in a sensible manner, just for flippin once.

[Jefferson23]

35. I'll be surprised if Patterson gets re-elected.

[psquare]

40. It's not a hit piece, it's more of a spun explanation

I posted this on another thread, don't know if that's proper, but really I think that very few people are seeing the forest here.

For those of us who follow this stuff, NY politics is extremely complicated (and fun), and this whole affair has been very illuminating for seeing where the fault lines lie.

This pick was all about two competing ideas -

1 - Helping Paterson get himself elected. He was not a well-known figure when he ran on the Spitzer ticket. NY voters vote for Governor-Lt. Governor together, like we did with Obama-Biden. Andrew Cuomo wants the job. Paterson would never have given Cuomo Senate because it gives Cuomo tons of free publicity for two years leading up to either a run for the full term (with little opposition) or a switch to run for Governor. Either way Paterson would get into a popularity contest or a numbers contest. It's a no-brainer he would go for someone who is a relative unknown. It would draw competition to the Senate primary in 2010 and that makes it easier for Paterson to get re-nominated.

2 - Caroline Kennedy may be wonderful in speeches and gala events and Boards of organizations, but in NY you have to be popular in both upstate and NYC to get elected. She showed that she has a very thin skin to criticism and very little knowledge of the issues in NY. I personally believe that she was offered a chance to show her stuff by the Obama administration because they were looking to develop a succession plan for her as a possible VP in 2012 and Pres in 2016. Caroline Kennedy proved she was a lightweight in her attempts to be a politician, and picking her would have been a disastrous two-year experiment gone wrong. People thought the same thing about Hillary in 2000, but she surprised everyone by showing herself to fit right in, to learn about the issues, makes tons of speeches, connect with the audience everywhere in the state. Plus she did it in an election primary and campaign. She was incredibly tuned in to all of NY state and she didn't shy away from anything. What a huge contrast with that upstate tour Caroline did. Her performance on that tour practically sunk her chances to be anything but a two-year Senator. It was clear that she didn't like the routine.

So you see why a Kennedy pick might have been good for Paterson, and indeed all indications were that he was going to pick her (maybe not according to the DN). There was a high probability that she would have proven out to be a lightweight and that would lead to a wide-open primary. But making that pick would have shown him to be a poor judge of talent. He couldn't bring himself to make it because, frankly, the writing was on the wall that there wouldn't even be a honeymoon period with her being in the Senate. He would have looked bad from the start. Better to pick someone from the "B" list who at least knows how to run a campaign. And Gillibrand is a good campaigner, has a lot of appeal to upstate, and given two years she likely will not embarrass the governor, whether or not she wins the Senate primary.

[Cha]

41. Whatever..I've learned not

to believe gossip pieces no matter what publication they're in.

I wish the best for Caroline Kennedy..and for the Gov of New York. He's chosen Gillibrand and I will wait and see what happens with that.

[excess_3]

43. was Caroline the best available?

I thought there was a whole
bunch of 'em.

meybe Caroline was the only one living
in NY?

[TuxedoKat]

51. I don't know

but the thing I liked about her is that she was politically beholden to no one and had a record of public service as well as having close ties to Pres. Obama, all positives as far as I was concerned. Gillibrand was a reluctant second choice for me.

[liberalpragmatist]

45. Seriously? What's with the trashing Caroline?

I don't think she made a good case for herself, but it's over. She withdrew and someone else - Gillibrand - was named. It's beyond unseemly for Paterson and "people close to him" to trash Caroline behind her back like this. This just makes them look petty and vindictive.

[Robeson]

46. Way to keep it in-house, gov...

...way to stay classy.

[Piewhacket]

47. 1..2...3.... it was a hit on kennedy AND patterson..

Patterson looks bad as a dem for trashing Kennedy by calling her
a lightweight, damaging HIS future political prospects.

Kennedy looks bad for being called a lightweight by a dem,
damaging HER future political prospects.


wake up folks.
classic fucking ROVE and associates!
and speaking of Rove, when is that MF going to JAIL???

[DemBones DemBones]

48. Those weasel words "a source."

There's no proof Paterson said any of this; it could all have come from a GOP "source" trying to hurt Paterson. Use your heads for something other than hatracks, people.

[Smarmie Doofus]

50. I can't agree. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the ONE.

CKS: pleasant person. No relevant experience. No relevant accomplishments. No consuming interest in public policy ( if she were intereseted she would have voted regularly; she didn't.)

Paterson's explanation is entirely plausible but he mangled it by letting the speculation go on ad nauseum . Probably to avoid aggravating Bloomberg.

[dusmcj]

53. so was I. Nice lady, unqualified, and 'celebrity family' doesn't count

bout time this * stopped and the stupid Fuehrer-baits (i.e. people who practice the politics of personality) lose their influence over the process.