Business Owner Fires on 4 Robbers, Killing 2, Police Say

[Uzybone]

Source: NYTimes

Updated, 6:55 p.m. | A 72-year-old Harlem business owner used a shotgun to blast four men who tried to rob his restaurant-supply business Thursday afternoon, killing two and sending two others to the hospital with gunshot wounds, the New York City police said.

The business, the Kaplan Brothers Blue Flame Corporation, at 523 West 125th Street, near Amsterdam Avenue, sells commercial gas and electric ranges, as well as parts and repairs.

The police said that the four would-be robbers entered the business and announced that they were robbing it. One of them took out a Glock 9-mm pistol and started to pistol-whip a 33-year-old employee inside the store. The owner then took out a shotgun and opened fire, striking the four men.

Read more: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/business-owner-fires-on-4-robbers-killing-2-police-say/?hp

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They messed with the wrong guy.

[bluestateguy]

1. "Cleanup in aisle 8!"

nt

[dccrossman]

2. K&R

It's unfortunate, but this is the world we live in. Good for the business owner protecting his employee. Too bad that the gun wasn't registered properly.

[virginia mountainman]

3. 72 year old man, takes on 4 much younger men...

According to Sara Brady, and other assorted Rupukes.

Guns get taken away from people, and used against them....

LOL!!!!! What a load of crap! Or in this case, a load of buckshot!

[tularetom]

16. Um, where does it say anything about buckshot?

He could've had any kind of shot in those shells ranging from #12 clear up to 000 buck. Hell for security purposes he may have even been using slugs.

Regardless the old dude done good.

[Alamuti Lotus]

23. I think that was poetic license.....

take a step back and just admire the rare event of justice-due. Usually the chips fall quite far in the other direction, so let this one case be a cause for (slightly dubious, to be admitted) celebration.

[virginia mountainman]

27. LOL, it was a bit of Poetic license.

Most of the folks that use a 12 gauge, especially if they are older, are big believers in "OO" buckshot.

It is my load of choice, for self defence as well.

[appal_jack]

4. hope the business owner does not get hassled

More from the article:

The police said they did not believe the shotgun — a Winchester 12-gauge pump shotgun with a pistol grip handle — had been registered, as city law requires. The police also recovered the pistol used by the would-be robber.

(snip)

One bystander, Venus Singleton, 51, said that an employee at the business, known as J. B., was well-liked in the community. “I hope that the gun was licensed, and that he was in his rights,” she said.

Another bystander, Ricardo Gonzalez, 37, said he used to do odd jobs at Blue Flame for a few extra dollars. Mr. Gonzalez said the business’s owner, known to everyone as Gus, was also well-regarded in the neighborhood. “He’s a good dude, helps out the neighborhood,” Mr. Gonzalez said.

Mr. Gonzalez said that J. B. had worked for the business for at least a decade and was one of Gus’s most trusted workers.

According to a 1989 article in The New York Times, Blue Flame repairs old gas and electric commercial ranges. The article reported that Charles Augusto, president of the business, which was founded in the late 1920s, could repair stoves made as far back as the 1920s.

I would certainly hope that the good owner of a family business that provides an important service is not hassled by any prosecutors over the lack of 'registration' of his shotgun. Clearly there was a need, given that the robbers felt impunity to enter in broad daylight and immediately employ deadly force against an employee. And anyway, are registration laws for long guns really Constitutional? IMHO they are not, especially post-Heller. The burden of obligatory 'registration' and the resulting barrier to exercising protected civil liberties (RKBA, self-defense, etc.) far outweighs any benefit that society gains from such a process.

Kudos to Gus (the owner), and may peace prevail again in his neighborhood now that future would-be-robbers have been served notice about potential consequences of ill-considered and reprehensible actions.

-app

[kelly1mm]

7. Can you say "TEST CASE" nt

[appal_jack]

9. it would be great

It would be great to see the 2nd Amendment fully-incorporated. Soon. And while we're hoping, I would say that all Constitutional rights of citizens should be upheld whenever a dispute arises between a human and a corporation, under the logic that a state cannot charter a private entity to undermine Constitutionally protected liberties.

A man can dream, right?

-app

PS - the people who unrec'd this thread are LAME

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. If he broke the law he broke the law

It's not that complicated. In New York City, you register your guns or you go to jail, one year mandatory. I don't care if you're Mother Theresa.

[appal_jack]

13. If the law is Unconstitutional...

If the law is Unconstitutional, it can be overturned by a Judge who has read the Constitution and understands that the Bill of Rights was intended to clearly demarcate situations in which the state must defer to individual liberty.

In my ideal America, the whole country would be a free speech zone, the RKBA would apply to all citizens equally, etc. ...

-app

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. The law is Constitutional because it was duly passed and nobody's said otherwise

I'm very happy for your ideal America. As it stands, there is a law on the books in New York City that has not been overturned. If this man violated it, he should be arrested and tried. If that turns into a test case on the constitutionality of the law, fine. But the law is not "unconstitutional" until some recognized judicial body says it is, and none has. Your say so and opinion doesn't make it so.

[appal_jack]

18. true enough n/t

[Vidar]

25. Good for Gus!

[cloudbase]

5. The city will probably prosecute,

but I suspect that they'd have a hard time finding a jury that would convict.

[Robb]

14. Agreed.

I expect a suspended sentence even if a conviction can be obtained.

[Amos Moses]

6. Even if the shotgun wasn't registered, it's better he used it than

getting his brains beat out of his head, or worse. Too bad he wasn't able to kill the other two. Maybe they'll die from their wounds later. Either way that was some fine shooting. :applause:

[UpInArms]

8. Gus, you did the right thing

when push comes to shove - keep pushing them away from the people that have done no harm.

[Dappleganger]

10. Good for him.

[The abyss]

12. You know what?

50 years or so ago this story “might” have made a one paragraph blurb on the 14th page of the 15 pages that made up the local section of a NYC broadsheet.

Now, as in the present, the local authorities get all-a-twitter-patted that Ol’ Gus doesn’t have his blunderbuss properly registered and it is now a national news story.

Something wrong with that picture….

[Amos Moses]

15. lol "blunderbuss"

Good observation and extra points for the blunderbuss remark. :rofl:

Weren't the NYPD hassling some guy that had a Revolutionary War era replica musket in his house? Sounds like they've let their priorities get out of order a bit.

[Tim01]

19. oops.

[tj2001]

20. Too bad he didn't get them all

[Alamuti Lotus]

21. only two? good, fuck em.

According to the story, THEY brandished the weapons first. Consequences of living by the sword (those who can really get away with it, DO get away with it; those who don't should've thought it out a bit more clearly). Their own fault for drawing a less-impressive weapon than the person just trying to earn his proper keep. If all such stories ended up this way, petty thievery wouldn't be such an inviting prospect to those without the ambition to man the premises of restaurant-supply business of their own in their curiously advancing age.

[bjobotts]

22. What the hell has this got to do with politics??

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

24. Where did you get the idea that DU was only about politics?

[FarCenter]

26. Had he complied with NYC Gun Law, he wouldn't have been able to defend himself anyway

By the time that he got it out of the gun safe, unlocked the safety device, and loaded the weapon, it would have been all over.


http://home2.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/rifle_shotgun_permit_application_20080501.pdf

Section on "Safety Locking Devices Requirement"

In order to prevent children and other unauthorized persons from unlawfully gaining
access to firearms, the New York City Administrative Code requires that all firearms be
rendered inoperable by a Safety Locking Device when out of the owner’s immediate possession
and control.

A Safety Locking Device is defined as “a design adaptation or attachable accessory that
will prevent the use of the weapon by an unauthorized user.” Such safety locks my include, but
are not limited to, trigger locks requiring a key to open them, or combination handles requiring
alignment of combination tumblers, in order for the weapon to be fired.

Pursuant to New York City Administrative Code § 10-312, it is a criminal violation
punishable by up to 10 days’ imprisonment and/or a fine up to $250 for any owner or custodian
of a weapon to store or otherwise place or leave the weapon in such a manner or under
circumstances that it is out of his or her immediate possession or control, without having
rendered such weapon inoperable by employing a Safety Locking Device. If the offender has
previously been found guilty of this violation, or if the violation is committed under
circumstances which create a substantial risk of physical injury to another person, the
offense is a misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days’ imprisonment and/or a fine up to
$1,000.

Furthermore, when a handgun license or a rifle/shotgun permitee sells or otherwise
disposes of a weapon, he or she must provide an accompanying Safety Locking Device to the
recipient. Violation of this law is a misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days’ imprisonment
and/or a fine up to $500.

The use of a Safety Locking Device is of course only one aspect of responsible weapon
storage. It should be remembered that any weapon not under the control of the authorized user
or owner should be stored unloaded and locked in a location that is both separate from their
ammunition and inaccessible to children and any other unauthorized persons.
It is unlawful for any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer, to
dispose of a weapon in New York City without including the following warning, in
conspicuous and legible type in capital letters, printed on a label affixed to the weapon and on a
separate sheet of paper included within the packaging: “THE USE OF A LOCKING DEVICE
OR SAFETY LOCK IS ONLY ONE ASPECT OF RESPONSIBLE WEAPON STORAGE.
ALL WEAPONS SHOULD BE STORED UNLOADED AND LOCKED IN A LOCATION
THAT IS BOTH SEPARATE FROM THEIR AMMUNITION AND INACCESSIBLE TO
CHILDREN AND ANY OTHER UNAUTHORIZED PERSON.”