So we went and listened to Tim Dunn last night

[Esse Quam Videri]

at the Democratic Women of Mecklenburg County. Can't say that I was overly impressed. Tim will be challanging Robin Hayes for the Eighth District congress seat. He is an Iraq vet and is a long standing member of the Democratic party in Cumberland County. He is pro-life and against an ammendment for gay marriage. Like I said wasn't overly impressed but he might be our best shot at taking down Hayes. Anyone else have any thoughts on him?

[GreenInNC]

1. He is a Democrat?

Pro life? A Democrat? With all this talk about "true Democrats" around Mecklenburg, he should have been kicked out of the meeting.

[Esse Quam Videri]

3. He is from Fayetville but the eighth district

stretches all the way from there to Cabarrus county. Mel Watt is actually my rep but I went to listen to him with the hopes of maybe getting on board with his campaign (We live not too far from part of his district). Nonetheless my wife and I came out of the meeting kind of scratching our heads and had left our checkbook in her purse.

[ManiFesto]

9. That's what I'm hearing here too

Nonetheless my wife and I came out of the meeting kind of scratching our heads and had left our checkbook in her purse.

This pegs the problem with Tim Dunn and many of the more radically right "Fighting Dems" to a Tee.

They leave the base with a resolute "Huh?"

[GainesT1958]

2. I wish someone over there would try to talk...

A REAL Democrat into challenging Robin Hayes; namely, Wayne Goodwin!:D

B-)

[GreenInNC]

6. Wayne Goodwin

Wayne would make a great challenger. I had a chance to talk to him when he was traveling around the state aking citizens idea's for the last SEC meeting. Nice guy who listens.

[supernova]

4. But what does Pat Patten think?

That will be the proof of whether or not he gets any support from Meck women. :D

[ManiFesto]

5. You are KIDDING me!?!

No wonder his website has been under construction for months. He's got nothing good to say.

Who in the HELL recruited this guy? A pro-war, anti-choice Marine. No freaking thanks. We already have a Republican in office.

Thank GOD we have a VIABLE Democratic candidate in the running now: http://www.larrykissell.com/

Larry Kissell for North Carolina!

[ManiFesto]

7. Ugh

Everyone's least favorite pro-life "Fightin' Dem" was awful on Lou Dobbs last night.

Lou Dobbs! Perfect opportunity to stick it to Hayes on the economy, outsourcing, free trade and open borders right?

DUNN: Well certainly, I'd like to first say that there's no one that would support the military and our servicemen and women in Iraq and Afghanistan more than someone such as myself that have served in Iraq.

Perhaps I've been reading too much Lakoff lately, but that's just elitist. If that's supposed to be directed at Hayes someone should tell the half million voters here that never served and aren't as qualified as Tim Dunn to 'support our troops.'

The Democratic Party is getting more and more exclusive everyday with this republican-light "Fightin' Dems" baloney.

DUNN: Absolutely. I think it's crucial, particularly in this environment, the political environment, that we have more veterans not only running, but serving in Congress. I think the experience that we bring to the political process is crucial.

The ability to plan, to look at a mission, to be able to execute that plan and to accomplish the mission. I think it will be very valuable, not only in running but also in serving in Congress.

That's what's critical Tim? Getting vets in office? Wedging our party over a uniform? Fighting Republican wars better, smarter, harder?

What happened to the "People's House?" Core progressive values? CAFTA? Jobs? Education? Choice?

Bah...

[citizen snips]

8. He was on CNN.

But I am not enthusiastic about him because he is pro-life.

[timber84]

10. What about Chris Kouri?

Is he gonna try again?

[GreenInNC]

12. said he is not running

[timber84]

13. Too bad wne to High school with him a really great guy

[GreenInNC]

14. you a cougar?

[timber84]

15. yes are you? class of 89

[GreenInNC]

16. no

but all my friends went to school there. Most were '82 with a couple of other years mixed in.

[timber84]

17. that's cool

[wildeyed]

11. I don't know all that much about the makeup of the 8th,

but I questioned a more knowledgeable person about this issue and he seems to think that the 8th is conservative and that even a conservative, well-funded dem has barely a hope of taking Hayes down. I don't really have an opinion, but that one is coming from someone I consider to be knowledgeable and realistic.

So this will be a little long winded, but here goes. One of my good friends is a lesbian in a long term committed relationship. She and her partner have a son together. She has a chronic health condition and no medical insurance. Her partner is a long-time state employee, but state employees don't have rights for their same sex partners. So my friend really needs and should have insurance , but is kept from it by bigotry and small mindedness. So here is the crux, is it better for her to get the insurance because the political structure recognizes the sanctity of her relationship and does the right thing, or would it be better to get the health care because we came up with a more equitable and fair system for distribution of health care in this country? I would say both. But maybe only one is possible in the current political climate. Maybe I would take one and continue fighting for the other. Either way my friend gets the help she needs. And that is what I think you get from some of these conservative dems from conservative districts. Support on some issues (in this case, Dunn sounds strong on economic issues) and they probably aren't going to go out of their way to humiliate gays or strike down Roe in the meantime.

Just my .02.

Here is a quote from Dunn's site:

EDUCATION
College
"Tuition costs are rising and our current Congress has voted to reduce financial aid and student loans. That is the wrong approach and the wrong direction. I was the first person in my family to receive a four-year college degree and I could not have done it without financial assistance. We must make sure that our children have the resources they need to succeed."
http://www.dunnforcongress.com/issues.html

There really isn't much about policy up yet. Hopefully he will post more later.

I will work to register voters and do GOTV in the 8th for whomever wins the primary, barring some sort of really horrible revelation. I want to defeat Hayes, and there is a possibility that could happen. I want to be a part of it.

[Esse Quam Videri]

18. Letter my wife got from Tim today

So he must be getting some backlash for the views he expressed because we got a letter today inviting us to go hear Senator Max Cleland speak Sat. Jan. 21. At the end of the letter was this:

"I would like to take this opportunity to clarify my position on women's reproductive rights as I feel that I have been misunderstood on this very important issue. My position on the rights of pregnant women has not changed. From DAY ONE, I have been very clear that I support the rights of pregnant women as defined by the Supreme Court based on the constitution and the laws as they are written. While I may have personal reservations about abortion for my own family; as a Congressman, I will support health care options for all women and children."

He also gave his personal cell phone number should we wish to contact him.

Just thought I'd let everyone know about this correspondence.

[ManiFesto]

19. Yeah, everyone's been talking about Dunn's flip flops

First it was he was just being honest about being pro-life, then it was he got bad advice from his Washington consultants that just made him say he was pro-life, then it was he's just been misunderstood and now they're actually trying to call him a pro-choice candidate. Some turnaround from being a self professed pro-life candidate a few months ago.

Robin Hayes is laughing buckets watching Dunn's faltering campaign.

Dunn has been so busy trying to catch newcomer Kissell who's been pro-choice from the beginning, with Dunn first softening his "strategy to win" warhawk position to match Kissell's "Out in 2006" and now trying to copy Kissell's pro-privacy candidacy why doesn't Dunn just vote for Kissell if he's so right on the issues?

Dunn missed the Martin Luther King holiday altogether. Nothing from him. Not a blip on his website that stayed dormant for months until Kissell entered the race. Dunn's been too busy re-writing his campaign from the ground up I guess to remember there's a huge African American community in the 8th.

I feel bad for Max Cleland being saddled to this guy by the DCCC trying to salvage his campaign. It's embarrassing. They're saying Dunn spent $26 a vote to come in 5th last time he ran in the 7th district. He's just a weak candidate no matter where he tries to run or how he "clarifies" his positions.

I hope Max gets good support at the rally, but really it's for Max Cleland at this point. Not Dunn.

[Hudba]

20. what about Mark Ortiz?

Does anyone have an opinion on the third candidate in the primary race for the 8th district?
http://www.markortizforcongress.org/

[wildeyed]

21. He ran in 04.

I met him several times. He is a nice man. If I recall his candidacy had something to do with the paper ballot issue. I don't know that he is considered a serious candidate by the powers that be.

[GreenInNC]

22. Mark

I have known Mark for around six years and find him to be a very sincere and ethical man. I think he would make a good member of congress, he would definetly keep the Democratic leadership on their toes.

[ManiFesto]

23. Is Ortiz ethical?

Does he even live in the 8th District? Does he offer anything besides misrepresenting the positions of leading Democratic candidates that actually can beat Robin Hayes? Does he serve the best interests of anyone but Robin Hayes?

He sure didn't when he campaigned against Beth Troutman last time. And still lost. Just like he will again, though only after dragging viable candidates through the mud and wasting everyone's time in debates.

Some may also think Ralph Nader keeps the Democratic Party "on their toes." I'm more practical. I think spoilers like Nader and Ortiz just keep us out of power.

You should really have to live in a District to run in it too. Carpetbaggers piss me off more than anything.

[GreenInNC]

24. limiting who can run?

So we need to limit who is allowed to run for office?

[ManiFesto]

26. Yes

We already do. You have to be a registered Democrat to run as Democrat. You have to be an American to run for President. And apparently you have to live in NC to run for Senate, even though other carpetbaggers like Liddy Dole apparently have ways around that.

Why not actually live in District to be eligible to represent it? That's not undemocratic. That's the definition of representation.

[Hudba]

25. yes he lives in the 8th district.

Last time I checked Mark Ortiz was living in Kannapolis, which is part of Cabarrus County, the largest county of the 8th district.
Last time I checked this country was also a democracy (although lately this might be up for debate), which means that anyone who wants to run for office can do so. :eyes:

By the way, I also live in Cabarrus County and you can always check out our new website www.cabarrusdemocrats.org :)

[ManiFesto]

27. Check again

Kannapolis is also an address in Rowan County.

Board of Elections - http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/
Voter Database - http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/votersearch/seimsvot.htm
Mark Ortiz - http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/votersearch/results1_bert.asp?LN=Ortiz&LA=&FN=MArk&FA=&ST=&CS=B&SX=B&MON=&DAY=&YR=&submit=Submit

Voter Data Results From The NC Statewide Database

Name: ORTIZ, MARK FREDERIC

County Name: ROWAN

Status: ACTIVE

City: KANNAPOLIS NC 28083

Polling Place: BOSTIAN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Click here to view images of your Polling Place
Address: 4245 OLD BEATTY FORD RD

City: CHINA GROVE, NC 28023

That's the 6th.

[GreenInNC]

28. yep

Mark does not live in the 8th, so what?

Untill the law is changed, he is eligible to run. He is excersing his constitutional rights.

If you do not think this is right, then work to change the law.

Silly me, I thought it was just Republicans that wanted to deny us our rights.

[spideralum86]

29. My Two Cents

While it is legal to run while not living in that district, I don't think that it is right. I've been lurking on this thread for a while and I think that valid points have been made. The shot about Republicans was cheap.

Mr. Ortiz lives in Rowan county, and according to Rowan County tax records he doesn't even own property there. That means he's not paying property taxes either, which of course, is also legal. His address, 155 Wankel Drive, doesn't even exist in the tax records, but is apparently a part of a larger tract of property that is owned by someone else.

My main problem with him is that he's not a true Democrat either. He's running as a Democrat only because his party of choice is not recognized. If we're going to attack someone by telling them to change things, then maybe that's the place to start - get your own party recognized first.

According to FEC records, Ortiz "has taken no action to become a candidate." 'nuff said there.

I am a life-long Democrat, I live in the district, pay taxes and want to be represented by someone who cares about my needs rather than a one-issue per election Johnny-come-lately who's just going to mess things up for legitimate candidates. Oh, and I want him/her to live in the district.

I'm leaning toward the candidate who seems to have my hometown values.

I know who I won't be supporting.

Ortiz is the kind of candidate that Robin Hayes likes to see run. His people will probably be campaigning for him.

Chris

[GreenInNC]

30. support who you want

I think it is great that you have found a candidate that supports your values.

Just for the record, like Mark, I am no longer a member of the Green Party. Have you asked Mark why he left the party? It was far more than the ballot access issue.

As for ballot access, are you aware what it takes for a party to get on the ballot here in NC? NC has the second toughest ballot access laws in the US. For a party to gain access, it would have to get 75,000 valid signatures (national avg 15,000). This has only been done two times and in both cases, paid signature gathers were used. To stay on the ballot, a party has to gain 10% of the presidential or gubernatorial vote (national avg 2%). This has never been done in NC. If a party does not get the 10%, the signature gathering starts all over again.

For an unaffiliated candidate to get in a partisan race, they usually have to get 5% of the registered voters in their district to sign a petition.

NC is also one of the few states where you have to petition to get your write in votes counted.

[newyawker99]

31. Hi spideralum86!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

36. Yes he is ethical, but should stick to writing

Ortize is ethical.

Yes he was a green.

He is a purist though.

He believes in hand counted paper ballots only, and wasn't interested in campaigning
for Voter Verified Paper Ballots since the law would not ban voting machines.
Never mind that if this law didn't pass, NC would be an all paperless state!

Further, he did not launch his own campaign for hand counted paper ballots.

By the way, NC's law recognizes hand counted paper ballots as a certified
voting system, but Ortize's county is not going to that.

(I would have thought it easier to lobby your own county to switch to paper ballots
than to try to get the entire state switched to them.)

I think he should stick to writing, which he is very talented at.

Here is a sample of his writing, and you will see what I mean:

http://www.ncvoter.net/blindvoting.html

[Hudba]

32. Anyone know 4th candidate John Autry?

Now that filing is over, we know that a 4th candidate filed to run for US Congress in the 8th district.
His name is John Autry and he's from Charlotte.:shrug:
Does anybody know anything about him?

[ManiFesto]

33. According to the rumor mill

He's a green friend of Ortiz's that he talked into running as his replacement spoiler at the last minute because Ortiz was going to switch to the 6th, but Ortiz apparently backed out of the deal leaving his buddy hanging for the $1500 filing fee.

Someone was saying something about Ortiz's ethics? Oh yeah, that was me.

Sorry if this got more heated than it should between friends, but I have no tolerance for these antics. This is serious business, Hayes needs to go, and Ortiz and friends are clowns.

This is what we're facing people.

A 4 term incumbent evil that has never been more vulnerable than now due to his bad trade deals, and the party is playing games!

We have the Ortiz show... A former Green and professional spoiler that doesn't even live in this district.

His unknown buddy who he screwed out of $1,500 just to make sure this race had a spoiler before backing out of the deal at the last minute leaving us with TWO.

A pro-life "Democrat" and professional failed politician from Fayetteville that freaked out on the Fayetteville Observer last week for referring to him as "anti-war..." and made them run a correction reminding us Dunn still plans to "win" in Iraq!?!

Originally published on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 in the Local & State category.

Election 2006
5 races to watch

Compiled by Don Worthington

Staff writer

Published correction ran March 2, 2006: Congressional candidate Tim Dunn's position on the war in Iraq is, "We don't have a clearly defined mission or a stragtegy for winning. We need to take all action necessary to support our troops, giving them the equipment and resources to accomplish that mission." A story Wednesday characterized Dunn's campaign message as "anit-war." Dunn, a Democrat, is a candidate in the 8th District.

And we have the only real pro-choice, anti-war Democrat in the race with a good chance of beating Hayes - Larry Kissell

Can we please get serious now? This is becoming intolerable. Just venting generally, I can't believe my party sometimes.

[Hudba]

34. talked to Mark Ortiz

I talked to Mark last week wednesday and he said he didn't know about the 4th candidate until i told him about it. From how he acted and from his body language He seemed genuinely surprised.
Either he deserves an oscar for his performance, or he was speaking the truth.
He also told me then already that he had looked into running in the 6th district because there was no democrat running there, but at the last moment a democrat filed, so Mark backed off.
Since he told me the truth about that, I don't see why he would be lying about the other.
From what I understand Mark just decided to run, because there was no candidate that was completely anti-war and for immediate withdrawal out of Iraq. Since then Kissell seems to have changed his points of view a little and if you ask Mark I'm sure he will say thats because of him filing (you can read that in more words on his website).
I wanna make clear that I'm not a member of the Mark Ortiz fan club, i don't work or volunteer for his campaign and I'm sure he won't win in the primary.
I just don't understand why people get so wound up about someone like mark running, it's not like the candidates who make a real change of winning in the primary have to spend a lot of money to defeat Mark. He doesn't stand a chance to begin with.:silly:
I think we should be more worried about having TWO candidates who DO stand a chance of winning, which makes them have to spend money to defeat each other. Thus leaving less money in their "war chest" to defeat Robin Hayes, who's already swimming in money to begin with.:banghead:

[ManiFesto]

35. Good to know

Thanks Hudba! Like I said, it's the rumor mill. But there is some Autry/Ortiz connection methinks given the grumblings from Charlotte. Perhaps Autry is just someone that heard Ortiz was switching to the 6th then got screwed because Ortiz changed his mind. Time will tell.

I agree on your point though that we should focus on the two viable candidates. At least theoretically viable. I obviously only consider one a viable Democrat to my taste.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

37. actually, he should run

although I don't think he can win, we really really must put all dems on notice -

stop your pro war blabbering!

We want ANTI WAR candidates!

Mark is quite good at arguing the point, and we have got to quit
coddling these DINO candidates.

WE need debate, and the party tends to want to squelch that to the point that there
aren't really any primaries, the Dems just annoint a candidate, there is no
debate, and we get a GOP light.

This is plain stupid.

Mark should run.
Just so that someone can say - I am against the war.

And, I am sure he can make the point rather well.

[GreenInNC]

38. professional spoiler?

What exactly does one do to become a professionel spoiler?

I was the one who was defending Mark's ethics. Mark didn't screw anyone. He didn't even know the guy. You seem to be the only one slinging around rumors as they were truth. Is that very ethical?

I don't care if we have 100 candidates running, the more the merrier. If someone wants to run for office, go for it.

BTW - What else has Dunn run for to make him a professional politician?

[GreenInNC]

39. Professional Politician

This is Dunn's second race for office.

If this is the criteria for a professional politician, I guess I am one. I am getting ready for my third.

BTW - I support Kissel in this race.

Since when is exercising ones constitutional rights intolerable?