Vote NO on Issue 3... Mods please note:

[truth2power]

MODS: I know there is another thread (or two) on this, but please consider keeping this in its own thread, as there are critical parts of this issue that are not being discussed that people need to know about. Thanks.


1. The 54% of the gaming revenues that would go to slot and casino operators would be exempt from all Ohio taxes. IMO, at a time when the State of Ohio is suffering from a lack of revenue to meet needs for necessary services, we shouldn't give what is essentially a free ride to a few business interests.

2. MOST IMPORTANT - 30% of annual gross revenues would be designated for college scholarships available to the TOP 5% of students graduating from accredited public or non-public high schools.

Let me repeat: Only students placing in the TOP 5% of their graduating class.

I would submit that any student who is academically in the top 5% will have little trouble qualifying for scholarships in any case.

This plan will not provide college money for Ohio students across the board, those who may not be Valedictorian material, but who still deserve a chance at a college education. The "education" part of this issue is, as some have already pointed out, a trojan horse.


HERE"S A PLAN: Tax all of the revenue of slot and casino operators and designate a portion of that for college aid for ALL Ohio students.



Go here to download pdf file:

http://www.lwvohio.org/ Click on "Fall 2006 ballot issues on right side (blue banner). Sorry, I don't know how to get pdf links to copy.


edit> to add note to mods in subject line.

[Connie_Corleone]

1. The top 5% and Cincinnati being shut out of gaming...

are the two reasons I voted NO on Issue 3.

[AngryOldDem]

2. I thought Cincy didn't WANT gaming?

Wasn't there some plan a few years ago that would have had Ohio and Indiana sharing casinos, and casino revenues, or something? And Cincy (or Hamilton County) nixed it?

But yeah, you're right. Where most of these places would be located is, in and of itself, a big, red flag.

[AngryOldDem]

3. Thanks for this

I did not know of these specifics until earlier today, and they should be made common knowledge before people vote.

[truth2power]

4. What just happened to me re: this issue...

Immediately after posting the OP above I got my mail out of the mailbox. Lo and behold, I retrieved a large postcard: "Vote yes on Issue 3". Offering "financial tuition assistance for every Ohio student". Given that there was a website listed, www.YesOnIssue3.com I went there, which redirects to LearnAndEarn.com. That website allegedly provides the text of the amendment in pdf format. For some reason it was repeatedly unavailable, so I went to Google and retrieved it.

Then I called the Cincinnati contact number listed on the website 513-793-9111, and asked the staff person why they claim "financial tuition assistance for every Ohio student.." when in fact the monies are limited to the top 5%. I told her I was very annoyed about this. She replied that the "top 5%" is only for the first 12 years, (which is true, if you read the amendment). What happens after that, I don't think is addressed, although I just skimmed the Amendment.

I asked why they didn't disclose that on their literature and I felt it was dishonest not to do so. She replied with some long spiel, speaking so fast it was incomprehensible, said "Have a nice day", and then hung up on me.

Hmm...sounds even more like a "gimme" for the casino industry. :eyes: Just my $.02.

[MeDeMax]

5. Sorry, NO ONE is being forced to gamble

Amendment or no amendment, any $$$ for college tuition are much needed in Ohio.

There is no other plan to rein in runaway college tuitions.

If you have a better plan, please collect the signatures and get the revised
version of the issue on the ballot next election cycle. I will vote to support
any constructive amendment you wish to offer.

Not taking any action, by voting NO, is a really bad idea, IMHO.

[AngryOldDem]

10. True enough

But people who do not study this issue will be deluded into thinking that this money will be there when they need it to send their kids to school. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but I again point to the example of the Ohio Lottery. When it was clear that money was NOT being used for schools, many people were angry and demanded to know why. The same tactic was at work then as now: In order to skirt the genuine concerns this state has always had about gaming, it was wrapped in an issue that almost everyone could support.

Also, it is the job of those whom we send to Columbus to deal with school funding issues at all levels. We need to begin holding their feet to the fire to come up with a workable plan. All Ohioans have failed in this regard.

And taking a quick-fix action like expanding gaming, when half of the revenue upfront won't go to tuition as advertised, is also a very bad idea, IMHO.

[GOTV]

16. This is how the powerful dupe the poor....

... The poor have problems. The powerful take an issue that they want, like more tax free income, and they add some sugar for the poor, like a small amount of money for college tuition.

The poor decide that even though they would like a better bill this is the only bill being offered and they vote for it.

Then the poor get something but powerful get so much more. And next time when the powerful face the poor again, the difference between the groups are even larger. And the kicker is, the poor are the ones that decided to make themselves weaker.

If I was part of the powerful I would never offer you a choice that would actually help you unless it gave me the tools to still stay on top of you because I will not voluntarily hurt my position. And you'll accept my offer to heap riches on myself since I've agreed to give a small amount to you.

When you accept the first offer, you don't get the second. That's how it works.

[MeDeMax]

17. you shouldn't be betting at the race track, if you are POOR ...

I play the slot machines once every five years or so, I have never been to a race track
let alone bet at one.

Voting FOR issue 3 costs me $0, if one more Ohioan gets a few bucks for college because
of the passage of issue 3, I come out ahead.

I know this math doesn't work for everyone, but it does for me... :hi:

[OhioBlue]

6. I'm voting for Issue 3

because the horse industry in Ohio is suffering. Something needs to be done. Many horse owners are traveling to Mountaineer to race. My Dad and step-Mom do. It is not a perfect amendment, and I don't like the fact that they are trying to make it about funding education in a less than truthful way. But someone, somewhere needs to realize that there are many people in Ohio that are employed by the horse racing industry and it is deteriorating. My Dad and step-Mother are not wealthy people. I am not viewing this issue from a have-more stance. My parents have never worn dress clothes and drank mint-juleps while watching their horse. My Dad drove to the track after putting in 10 hours laying floors..... My step-Mother only knows the horse industry. She gets up at 6:00 a.m. puts on layers of clothes and works in the barn or at the track until sunset. They have reached out and embraced others at the track since I can remember. We had a trainer that was homeless and actually lived with us for a time and celebrated holidays with us for years...

I'm voting for Issue 3 because Ohio is losing revenue and tourism to neighboring States. This does have a trickle down effect to the trainers, jockeys, grooms, etc.

[gemdem]

7. There are other ways to help the Ohio horse industry

that don't require a constitutional amendment. There are ways to deal with the costs of a college education that don't require a badly flawed issue to be passed. There are ways to deal with all of this that don't require that the state constitution be bastardized to reward very narrow interests.

Everyone says something needs to be done. How about getting the damned Republicans out of power in Columbus and installing people who are more interested in solving the problems and are not interested in promoting half-baked ideas that will not help the state at large.

I find it incredibly frustrating that people keep saying that even though Issue #3 is flawed that it needs to be passed because it's better than nothing. A bad amendment is a bad amendment, and needs to be voted down. A message needs to be sent to Columbus that they need to go back to the drawing board and to come up with real solutions. It's bad enough that we have mediocre politicians in the state house -- now were going to screw with the constitution and make it just as mediocre? I'm sorry, but this is damned sad.

And to think that I moved my family back to Ohio almost 10 years ago. These days I just keep looking for the nearest exit.

[OhioBlue]

11. There are other ways - but nothing is being done

People are sick of the lip service - there are other ways.... well... bring them up... let's work on them... but they're nowhere to be found. Issue 3 is what they have right now.

There are many people that do not have much at all that now have even less b/c of the rise of Mountaineer and the deterioration of Thistledown. I'm voting for Issue 3 for them.

I would like to see Thistledown rival Mountaineer.

You can be frustrated all you want, but we will have to agree to disagree. Maybe if you had the same life experiences that I had, growing up - frequent visits to the track, meeting many grooms, jockeys, trainers, etc... you would see things as I see them, maybe not...

[WCGreen]

15. They have one of the stronget lobby's in Columbus...

If this is the only thing they can come up with to save the industry, well, maybe other solutions should be put forth...

If only as much concern was put into high tech industry over the years as has gone to the Horse Gaming industry....

[AngryOldDem]

9. I can understand the economic impact

But legalized gaming (or the extension of legalized gaming) is an issue that **any** state has to look long and hard at. I do, though, appreciate that you see the real motive behind this issue, and it's not the funding of higher education.

I am not at all convinced that this issue will help the state, either through tourism revenue or college tuition assistance. Also, if 55% of the profit goes directly to those fronting these operations, how much of that do you really think will "trickle down" to your parents?

[OhioBlue]

12. As far as my parents...

If the purses are close to what they are at Mountaineer, they will save a ton in gas money and hotel rooms.

But there is also a large community of low-income folks that rely on jobs at Thistledown. Not even necessarily directly work there - but take care of horses for the horse owners... My step-mom did this for years before her and my Dad started racing their own horses.

[slaveplanet]

8. I was out driving

CUY county today , "Yes on 3" signs are plastered everywhere, especially on COUNTY property, out by the Airport there was one every 40 feet lining both sides of the road, must have been dozens on each side. In the south of the County there were many also. There must be thousands in total. Not one "no on 3"...This is a well organized attack on the Ohio constitution, reason enough to vote against this measure.

[johnnie]

13. I disagree with you

I don't get what you think is so terrible about number 1. Are you saying that without their money being tax exempt it will hurt Ohio? How about the tax on large winnings, the tax collected from property taxes of the new casinos, the tax paid for vendors, taxes from the surrounding restaurants and so on.

I don't give a shit if people who run casinos get richer. That's their job.


And as for #2, that is 30% more money going to education than is going now. Once again, this is not about higher education, it is just a benefit for having slots. No one has come up with a better idea in...oh, decades, so I have a feeling that if issue 3 doesn't pass, we will wait another few decades before anything is done about it.

I'm voting yes because I think Ohio needs to do this soon.

[truth2power]

18. I'm not opposed to gambling, per se...

But I wonder why these people have to resort to lies to get their issue passed.

I received a large postcard from the Vote Yes on Issue 3 Committee a few days ago. There is not one word on the card about casinos and gambling. Instead, what is touted is "...College tuition assistance for which EVERY (emphasis in original) child is eligible. Not just the wealthy and privileged. Not just the top 5% of their class." <emphasis mine>

That statement is pure BS! Note the word "is" in that statement. That puts the action in the present tense. If the amendment passes, EVERY child will NOT be eligible for the scholarships. For the first 12 years only the top 5% of graduates will be eligible.

It would have been accurate to say, "After 12 years, every child will be eligible..." Why didn't they say that? Sorry, but it's a huge red flag when people can't be honest about what they're proposing.

This is a BAD deal.



edit> forgot to put closed quotes after the word "class" in first paragraph.

[Ohio Learn and Earn]

19. Every student IS eligible for tuition assistance

I'd like to address two points you make regarding the Ohio Learn and Earn program.

First, no one is lying about how the education initiative will be funded. The very first line of the OL&E Fact Book Introduction states, "This briefing book details a proposed amendment to Ohio’s constitution to create college grants for all Ohio children using funds generated by limited and state-regulated slot machines." It doesn't get more transparent than that.

And second, every child is eligible for the tuition assistance; the top 5% percent are simply given preference. Every class member from 2009 to 2020 will receive partial tuition, based on credits earned for passing core curriculum requirements. In addition, 5 percent of each class from 2009 to 2020 will receive tuition grants, starting with each school’s top academic students and moving down the ranking should those students opt out for non-Ohio schools, accept scholarships or decide to defer college for a time. With Learn & Earn fully funded, every member of the class of 2021 and those that follow will be eligible for a tuition grant when they pass Ohio’s K-12 core curriculum. These Ohio children start school knowing college is waiting for them. All they have to do is Learn & Earn it.

[WCGreen]

14. I voted No for several reasons but feel vidicated

by predictions that the gaming industry may be at a saturation point...

Just another hand out to the dying Race Horse industry in Ohio and a few powerful money families...