Panhandler's shooter had gun permit

[Algorem]

Source: Plain Dealer

Sunday, August 12, 2007
Associated Press

Cincinnati - A woman accused of fatally shooting a panhandler who asked her for 25 cents had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, authorities said.

Geraldine Beasley, 62, had paid a fine for unlawfully transporting a firearm in 2003, but the charge was not serious enough to prevent her from getting the concealed weapon permit when she applied for it through the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office a year later.

Beasley is charged with murder in the death of Donald Francis, 44, who police believe was homeless. Police said Francis had been standing outside a gas station late Monday asking people for money.

Beasley had complained about Francis to someone else and when he approached her to ask for 25 cents, she pulled out a gun and shot him, police said. Francis died at the scene...


Read more: http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1186920052114960.xml&coll=2

[Kolesar]

1. A headline from Ohio's first year with "concealed carry" permits

Somebody asked me for a dollar at the BP gas station on Mayfield last week. I told him to go away and he did.

[gratuitous]

2. Yeah, but if you'd had a gun . . .

You could have plugged the guy right then and there and he wouldn't go on to bother other folks, you selfish git!

[Kolesar]

7. A woman showed me her abdominal surgery wound so I gave her a lift from the BP on 91 last winter

If someone has an earnest need for help, I will help.

I have this impression that "some agency" puts medicaid patients up in the Knight's Inn at that exit when they discharge them. This woman could not even afford a car. Another man had approached me for money there a month earlier. He said he was homeless. Another motorist started helping him, so I just drove off to work.

[LiberalFighter]

4. But you didn't have a gun

Or if you did you had the common sense not to use it that type of situation

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. You're right

I would hope all those in favor of concealed handgun laws would be appalled and ask for stricter regulation of who gets them--this sort of situation hurts their cause.

[Fovea]

22. I am appalled

and I do believe in conceal carry. And I believe it should be accountable and well regulated.

However, with this woman's history, it sounds like she carried before it was legal. So the law did not change much in her case.

[roseBudd]

26. The reailty is background checks are only going to weed out previously convicted or

adjudicated. The reality is a lot of people who should not have guns don't have a record because they haven't been arrested & convicted or probated. Absence of evidence is not evidence of anything.

[Fovea]

38. My personal reality Check

in 2005, there were ~14,000 gun related fatalities in the US, according to Alex Gerber of the Washington Times.

In 2005, there were ~43,000 traffic fatalities. Almost nothing is actually being done about that. In my town, rated last in America for bicycle safety, I have lost multiple friends this year to bicycle/motor vehicle accidents, the latest being a Grandfather and his grand daughter training for the MS150, struck from behind on a 4 lane road commonly used by cyclists in broad daylight.

At least in some of those firearm fatalities, the person shot was in the act of committing a crime, evading arrest, etc.


I am not saying give a handgun to everyone who wants one, but we pretty much do that with driver's licenses. Back in 2002, Mike Brady was run over during a bike race by a fellow who had 14 moving violations.

Ken Kifer, a friend of mine, was killed by a drunk who had been in jail for a DUI the night before.

Yeah, we have a gun problem, it is about 1/4 the size of our car problem. But the cultural trance won't let us do much about either.

[wuushew]

40. Car technology is steadily improving

-side curtain airbags

-stability control/anti-lock brakes

-tire inflation sensors


The ever increasing volume of traffic washes out some of these gains, but it can certainly be said that some effort is directed into making motor vehicles less deadly.

[Fovea]

49. none of the things you mention will save the life of a pedestrian or cyclist.

When a drunk, senile, or sociopathic driver gets behind the wheel. Cars can be made more safe against other cars, sure. But that does not change the fact that people are not safer in regard to cars, if they don't (like 25% of the folks in my city with shoddy public transportation) drive a car.

Driving a car is not a right, and far, far too many people are allowed to do it who are not capable for one reason or another.

I am missing 1/3rd of my right visual field from a stroke and get disoriented sometimes. What did the rehab doctor say to me?
"Don't worry, we will have you back behind the wheel in no time."

I left that doctor. Putting me back behind the wheel of a car is, in point of fact, a violation of the broader implication of the Hippocratic oath. But that is the cultural trance at work. You can't see past it, because you are soaking in it.

[wuushew]

53. I was not arguing with you

I am simply more impressed by the non-human factor improvements that are and can be made to driving vs. those associated with firearms. As a cyclist I empathize and share your concern for road safety.

[Fovea]

54. I am sorry

I am not calm on this subject I know. But I have lost too many friends to people who think the automobile defines what it means to be American.

[Chulanowa]

84. They call 'em "accidents" for a reason

How many auto-related fatalities are the results of poor road conditions or mechanical problems? At least a few. More are probably caused by trying to avoid the really bad drivers. Or freak accidents.

However, one has to point a gun and pull the trigger. Gun fatalities, except in very rare occasions, always involve someone pointing the business end at someone else and messing with the trigger. The act is intentional.

Additionally, this is the exact function of a gun. It hurls a projectile faster than the speed of sound with the intent of tearing a hole into another living being, be they human or animal. There is no gun designed to be fired at targets, besides the lame airguns you might find at a carnival. An automobile, however, is designed for transport, not killing.

There's a large gulf of difference between auto deaths and gun deaths. For instance, we are not plowing down Iraqis with minivans.

[beevul]

89. Um...what?

"There is no gun designed to be fired at targets, besides the lame airguns you might find at a carnival."

You can't possibly believe thats true.

[roseBudd]

41. Apples & oranges, cars have a purpose besides killing

[Fovea]

52. I have several guns that I use frequently

and have never killed a thing with them.
I punch holes in paper for my amusement.

But I could kill with them. And there is the rub. I could also kill with my bare hands. Shall we remove them? How about my collection of knives, swords, and other weapons? Yes, they were all designed with the idea of killing in mind, but try to see the broader picture here.

I also have a gun that I killed several deer with. They were quite tasty. I pulled the trigger and ended their lives, and on a good day, they went on to the next life never knowing what happened to them.

Sure, the Xtian bible talks about beating swords into plowshears, but also about killing a lot. Cain is expelled not because he was a hunter, but because he used that skill on his brother.

The citizens of Jericho would have fared better had trumpets been outlawed. Where does your argument reach a reduction to absurdity...IMO not very far down the line.

[roseBudd]

57. the difference between guns & other weapons, bare hands or knife is that guns are more

lethal & can be used from a distance. If you try to kill me with your hands, you are close enough for me to inflict pain via your eyes, instep or balls

When you shoot unarmed me, my only recourse is luck. That your shot misses or hits nonvital areas.

If you like holey paper, why not punch holes in paper with a BB gun.

I am a pragmaist, not a gun outlawer. The weapons in this country could never be put back in the bottle.

But don't try to act like concealed carry is a solution to gun violence in this country. There are a lot of people who have no business with a CC permit who have no paper trail LE could use to deny them.

CC permit holders are going to be a more paranoid group of individuals. I live in a high crime area yet I never fear. Because I have a realistic, not exaggerated view of the likeyhood of me becoming a victim.

[awoke_in_2003]

63. I know you are getting beat up about this

but as a motorcyclist, I have to agree. I worry more about cars than guns. I don't know how many times I have almost been creamed because of some dumb ass cage driver who is too busy talking on their cell phone than to pay attention. And, of course, if you kill someone on a motorcycle, most of the time you are given a ticket or maybe a suspended sentence. The big excuse "oh, i didn't see him". Of course you didn't, you were to busy worrying about other, more important things. It makes me sick.

[yardwork]

78. I think that Cain was the vegetarian, actually. For some reason, God preferred Abel's gift of meat.

That always bothered me. I asked my partner, a former Crusader for Christ, and she said that the story probably reflects an ancient rivalry between farmers and hunters.

I don't own guns, but I see your point about cars and drivers being dangerous. Obviously, we aren't going to ban cars any time soon (although it would probably be a good idea). I don't think that we should try to ban guns, either. It's a non-starter of an issue and too many people take gun ownership too seriously. It's a losing issue for the Democrats. And, as you point out, most people who own guns take care of them and don't use them irresponsibly.

Many drivers of cars, on the other hand, act like morans (DU spelling).

[Kolesar]

71. I went back to look up Ken Kifer's site several months ago

I was sad to see that he was killed. He was a great guy! My condolences.

[DarkTirade]

88. I'm with you there.

Liscenses should be MUCH harder to get.
Not to mention that we wouldn't have such bad urban sprawl problems if everyone in the country is expected to own a car and drive everywhere.

[ProudDad]

61. Fat chance

"conceal carry. And I believe it should be accountable and well regulated."

No chance!!!

It's safer for all of us to dis-allow concealed carry...

[FuJun]

76. Amen Brother...

When will we join the rest of the civilized world?

[beevul]

91. Then you better disarm police too.

"It's safer for all of us to dis-allow concealed carry..."

Then you better disallow police carry too. Concealed carry holders are as a group, statistically more law abiding than police are.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

85. pls tell me she was charged with murder. PLEASE!

if not, why not?

[xchrom]

3. it's the panhandlers fault -- if he had spent the money he begged for --

on a gun and a conceal carry license -- then he could have shot his shooter.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Are they really screening the people who ask for these permits?

I want to be sure that the folks going to the concealed handgun class in the town where I work aren't people who will shoot someone because they look at them funny or ask for pocket change.

[zanne]

8. But here's something all you anti-gun people don't know......

If homeless people were armed, 1, 253, 689 less of them would die every year. If deer and bear were armed, 6,000,000 less of them would die every year. If kids were armed, there would be 2,000,000 more bullies. (I'm sorry, but I can't provide a source for my statistics, but I'm sure I read them somewhere good).:sarcasm:

[alarimer]

68. We have the right to bear arms but not the right to arm bears?

I think there's something wrong there but I think the bear, unlike deer, has half a chance against people.

[Wcross]

72. Boss I had was bragging her husband was going bear hunting.

He was going to Alaska to hunt grizzly bears. She was acting like it was a macho thing to hunt grizzly bears and at first so did I. I then asked her what kind of knife he was going to use to kill it, she looked at me and said he was going to use a rifle. I just shook my head and said "pussy".
We got along well enough where I could say that with no fear. I am not impressed with trophy hunters. Killing an animal like a grizzly bear is pointless, they regulate their own populations according to food availability. These hunters don't eat the animal like deer hunters do. They bust a cap in its ass and have it mounted so they can brag on killing it.

[alarimer]

73. Well if I were around grizzly bears, I'd carry a gun too

Grizzlies are extremely dangerous, much more so than black bears. But I don't see the point of hunting just for a trophy either.

[Wcross]

74. But we wouldn't go looking to kill one, right?

I would carry a gun myself if I was in grizzly country. I would not go to grizzly country just to shoot one though.

[zanne]

86. Wcross, Armageddon must be near....

Because I agree with you!:wtf:

[smirkymonkey]

80. Also, if homeless people were armed, they wouldn't be homeless

anymore. :freak:

:)

[rucky]

83. Unless teachers were armed as well. n/t

[Wcross]

9. I have a feeling there may be more to the story.

I found this comment on another message forum discussing this issue. This is a comment from someone who lives in that city and has had experience with the aggressive panhandling going on at the crime scene;

Quote- I work right down the street from where this happened. It is a combination Marathon gas station and White Castle restaurant go thru the drive thru at night to get coffee. There are a group of Bums that hang out in the lot at night. They are usually drunk or high or both and some show signs of mental illness. These guys walk right up to your window while at the drive thru and demand money. If you refuse they will spit in your face, throw garbage or rocks at you or your vehicle, beat and kick your vehicle until it is dented, threaten you with harm or death and run around to your passenger side door and try to break in your car with you in it. If you are stupid enough to walk into the store they will block your path and threaten you until you give them some cash. Myself and my co-workers have personally witnessed all of these incidents. We no longer go there because it has gotten worse lately with the Bums getting more violent. We were discussing just last week that it was a miracle that no one had shot one of the Bums yet and then it happened just a few days later. The Cincinnati Police are aware of the problem but choose to turn a blind eye. The local Coalition for the Homeless has really put the spin on this shooting in the press.They fight every attempt to restrict panhandling in this city.- Unquote.

She had NO RIGHT to shoot the victim. She should have done what the individual above did and stopped frequenting that business. I have to question why the police did not handle to homeless problem at this place.

[silverlib]

10. How do police "handle" the homeless?

The answer to homeless is much deeper. Alcoholism and drug addiction are a part of a much bigger problem and these illnesses, along with mental illness that does not include addictions, cannot be "handled" by the police.

[Wcross]

15. The police can arrest them for their actions.

Yes, it is a mental illness issue. But if they are assaulting other people they need to be arrested. If I were the owner of that business I would have them arrested for loitering. It can't be good for business to have a group of mentally ill people accosting your customers.

[silverlib]

34. And this does "what" to "handle" the homeless?

I guess my post was not clear. Yes, the police can arrest and detain, but how does this address homelessness? Have you visited the Mental Health Group on DU? The abuses to the mentally ill and addicted by insurance companies, where insurance is "somewhat" available and State and Federal Services is terribly flawed. Public understanding is lacking. Police should not have to "handle" the homeless and are poorly equipped to do so. Their intervention only assists the "public" for a very short time. Perhaps "the public" feels justification when they watch a homeless person get arrested, but this is about the extent of "handling" the homeless.

[Wcross]

36. I never argued that we have adequate mental health services.

Clearly we do not. I have no solution to the mental health problems in regard to the homeless. I wish I did.

[silverlib]

37. I must have misunderstood your statement...

"I have to question why the police did not handle to homeless problem at this place."

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

[roseBudd]

23. An Enquirer analysis showed highest recidivism were homeless who had multiple jail terms for

public intoxication & urination.

[zanne]

12. There must be more to the story?

Why? Because concealed gun-carriers would never do such a thing? It MUST be the fault of the homeless person! (Though you say she had no right to kill the homeless person). Yeah. That makes it objective.

[Wcross]

16. I said there MAY be more to the story.

I also was QUITE CLEAR that she had no right to shoot the victim. I just love your selective reading comprehension skills sweetheart. I never faulted the "homeless person", just providing some more information about the murder scene.

[roseBudd]

24. I'm sorry but homeless approaching a multiton car with engine running does not sound intimidating to

me

[Wcross]

27. No it doesn't.

I sure would get irritated if someone spit on me or tried to enter my vehicle though. I was just relaying what this person said had happened to him at the crime scene in the past. I didn't feel right editing the words.

[zanne]

30. Maybe if your posts didn't include.....

A kitty with a machine gun, I'd read your posts more objectively. N0 offense, of course.

[Wcross]

31. I just like the pissed off kitty, no real meaning to it. n/t

[zanne]

32. Of course not. nt

[roseBudd]

14. I call b*****t on this post, I get gas at this station all the time, & the station

at Liberty & Vine. Panhandlers yes, but they are on their best behavior because they risk being told to leave by station employees. I would describe their tactics as fleeting as they can't be seen hanging around for too long.

I'd like to see the police reports from the dented kicked vehicle. Homeless haters tend to exaggerate.

Some of Cincinnati's most locked up citizens according to an Enquirer analysis are the homeless who are arrested and sentenced to jail time for public urination & intoxication

Editted to add. It is the white flight suburbanites who complain constantly about the homeless. They don't think they should have to see them.

I work downtown and drive through the ghetto every day. I live surrounded by ghetto, I encounter homeless daily. And I have never felt harrassed even though I don't give money.

I recognize the shooter's pic, I've definitely seen her around. I'd say she is part of the community and either shot because she had a beef with this particular guy or she's not right mentally.

[Wcross]

17. Do you go to the station late in the evening?

I just copied and pasted what was posted on another forum I visit. I have no reason to suspect the guy would lie but maybe he did? Who knows?

[roseBudd]

20. Yes I go all over the places the white flight suburbainites claim are unsafe

at all times of the day or night. I'm an urban chick, what can I say.

Living in this city I see these kinds of wild exaggerations about threatening homeless all the time. I am not saying it can't happen, because obviously many of the homesless are mentally ill. I am saying their is a pattern of exaggeration and exaggerated perceptions of becoming a victim of crime by the suburban white population who live in segregated communities. They constantly write ridiculous LTTEs about the danger of downtown Cincinnati & the out of control homeless. They also complain about simply seeing homeless.

But then that is what white conservative GOP leaning people do. Complain. A lot. I think that is why they like talk radio.

[Wcross]

25. You are on the scene, I just was relaying another experience.

I've never had a problem with aggressive panhandlers myself but I can imagine it happens. The closest I have been to Cincinnati is the few times I drove through on the interstate so I have NO CLUE as to the current situation. Thank you for your report and correction of the current situation.

[roseBudd]

33. Cincinnati like a lot of urban cities has alot of drug related murders of young black men...

The central business district is bordered by very low income neighborhoods. To hear the white flighters it is tantamount to suicide to go anywhere near downtown, let alone set foot in Cincinnati.

In fact Mike McConnell a local talk radio personality claimed that it was more dangerous for his daughter to walk to her car from her classes at UC than it is in Bagdad. So you see the level of exaggeration knows no bounds.

Not only do I work downtown, but I walk on my lunch break into the most crime ridden neighborhood (Over-the-Rhine) for hardware, plumbing supplies, stained glass and the most awesome Blue Cheese Focacio, meats & vegetables.

I've never been shot, robbed, threatened by homeless spit on, etc.

I have experienced extreme flirting though.

[Wcross]

35. Cincinnati is a beautiful city.

As I have said I have only passed through your town. Is the area directly across the river from the stadium considered Cincinnati? I love the old houses on the hills there by the interstate. Also love the old industrial area if you head towards Dayton on the loop.

[bedpanartist]

47. I went to UC

and walked through Over-The-Rhine every day and often at night. Never a problem. Truth is, if you are a white male, most people think you are either a cop, or an undercover cop and stay as far away from you as possible.

[yardwork]

48. When the scaredy-cat suburbanites talk about their fear of "crime in the inner city"

I ask them, when was the last time you heard about a mob of black people killing a white person? I ask them to imagine what THAT headline would look like. I point out that drug dealers are there to do business. They are highly unlikely to interrupt business by shooting or harrassing potential customers.

Yes, there is danger in these neighborhoods. Most of it is visited on the people who live there, and have to contend with stray bullets coming in through their windows at night, breaking and entering, rapes, assaults, and the other dangers that come from being forced to live in very low-income neighborhoods.

[bedpanartist]

50. Something I discovered here in Dayton on my late night drives

There are some neighborhoods where the cops just let it all go. With a bike ride through the 'hood, I can tell you every problem property. It's obvious.

They ignore it to keep it contained to certain areas.

[yardwork]

51. I see the same thing.

[bedpanartist]

45. you go, I travel the inner-city at 3 a.m. on bicycle

in inner-Dayton, and NEVER have had a problem. It's amazingly quiet to be honest.

[yardwork]

46. I see and hear the same thing in my town in North Carolina

Bunch of nonsense. I get tired of listening to the suburbanites whine about downtown. To be fair, the African American suburbanites and merchants complain about the panhandlers and homeless, too.

I think it is a "fear of city sidewalks" suburban thing. They miss out on a lot hiding in their cul-de-sacs and never leaving their minivans.

[billbuckhead]

28. And what was that forum?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

44. No way. A homeless person would assault a car ONCE and they'd be arrested.

Merchants usually intensely dislike panhandlers and look for excuses to call the police and have them arrested. No way would a group of panhandlers ever be allowed to block entrances to a store. No way.

I hear complaints about the homeless and panhandlers in my town all the time. I'll be standing right next to a coworker who will start complaining up one side and down the other while the homeless person is standing there doing nothing! To hear the complainers tell it, the panhandlers are "aggressive, violent, threatening, abusive..." Nonsense. Most of them are severely mentally disabled. Is mumbling "spare some change" in a low voice while standing three feet away threatening?

People allow their fears to override their common sense.

[roseBudd]

59. Exactly. And that BP has cameras all around. Like I said the homeless do walk through panhandling at

stations. They have to appear like they are just passing by, or they get chased off.This BP has multiple CCTV cameras. True the drive-through is in the back but between the callbox & the window there isn't much a homeless person can do to make someone in an idling car give them money.

The panhandler shooter shot the homeless man in the front of the station, not behind it in the White Castle drive through.

[roseBudd]

58. One immediate clue that the person who wrote about violent homeless at that BP is a ...

Old, white, suburban always complaining whining exaggerator is...

The fact that "these types of people" are referred to three times as "Bums"

The outlying areas of Cincinnati is full of these old white Faux News watching, WLW listening haters. And then they have to come downtown to work and, oh the horrors, they see people with dark skin, some of them even scary black males with droopy pants!!!!!

[Wcross]

64. Is there something wrong with old white people?

I don't know the guy personally so I don't know his racial/age/demographic. I do know that "homeless person" replaced "Bum" in the politically correct language dictionary. Bum, to me, is an appropriate word for someone who doesn't work and begs for money on the street. It isn't just the fact that they have no home, it is the fact they are trying to get through life begging (aka bumming) money from strangers.

Here you go;
to bum (third-person singular simple present bums, present participle bumming, simple past bummed, past participle bummed)

(transitive) (slang) (with, after the object, off or, nonstandardly, off of) To ask someone to give one (something) for free; to beg for something.
Can I bum a cigarette off you?

Also this;
bum 1 (bm)
n.
1. A tramp; a vagrant.
2. A lazy or shiftless person, especially one who seeks to live solely by the support of others.
3. An incompetent, insignificant, or obnoxious person: The batter called the pitcher a bum.
4. One who is devoted to a particular activity or milieu: a beach bum.
v. bummed, bum·ming, bums
v.intr.
1. To live by begging and scavenging from place to place. Often used with around.
2. To loaf.
v.tr.
1. To acquire by begging; cadge. See Synonyms at cadge.
2. Slang To depress, dishearten, or dismay. Often used with out.

So, bum is an appropriate term to use wouldn't it?

[roseBudd]

65. How about telling us what forum you found the post on?

[Wcross]

70. It's the "old white people bitching forum".

It is actually a forum for people who discuss a self sustaining lifestyle. Subjects like alternative energy-off grid living, raising livestock for personal use, gardening and other aspects of rural living. There is a general discussion area which the subject of this shooting came up.
I will not post the URL for the forum because I have been judged enough for one day. Some of the people who post there have great information to share but are fundy's. Some of the people who post there have great information but happen to be Bush supporters. Some of the people who post there are very liberal and have great information. They pretty much tolerate differing opinions. Politics come up but rarely.

I will not bring the wrath of D.U. down upon those people. The guy called the panhandlers "Bums". I refer to people who approach me asking for money as bums also. I rarely get to know them well enough to find out their living arrangements. For all I know they bum money for a living and live in an apartment somewhere.

[TX-RAT]

87. WOW!

Not a big fan of white people, are you?

[Deep13]

94. "...stopped frequenting that business...."

Now why would she do that. Speaking only for myself, I will be damn if I let criminal activity prevent me from doing what I want.

Having said that, lethal force is only justified if one is under immediate threat of a lethal assault AND there is no way to retreat.

[MidwestTransplant]

11. Do felons loose voting right in Ohio? If so, that's one less Republican voter.

And one less poster on FreeRepublic.

[zanne]

13. BINGO! nt

[roseBudd]

18. No they don't. The shooter is an older black woman who lives in a low income

majority black neighborhood.

[Wcross]

19. I guess you would have to ask her who she voted for.

It is doubtful she voted republican but possible. I doubt she posts in freeperville.

[roseBudd]

21. I guarantee, if she voted, low income peole do have lower rates & if

her vote counted because she voted at the correct table at a multiprecinct polling location, that she voted for Kerry. I did extensive GOTV in her neighborhood since it's so close to mine & I can count on 1 hand the number of African Americans who told me they were supporting Bush.

[Turbineguy]

39. OK, so you're 62

and you ask yourself, "I'm 62, what do I want to do with the time I have left on this earth?"

Apparently the answer for this lady was "I want to shoot somebody and spend most of it in the slammer!"

When I looked at getting a concealed weapon I spoke with a Sheriff Deputy who happened to be in the gun store. He told me a fire fight is usually over in about 3 seconds. Will I ever be that good at using a gun? I decided it would be more useful to look around and take in the scene before stopping someplace and getting out of my car.

[roseBudd]

42. You are more likely to be killed driving daily on an interstate or on narrow winding exurban/rural

roads. In the city, errant drivers hit cushiony parked cars, sometimes multiple parked cars and walk away without a scratch.

Just because you see black males with droopy pants does not mean you are about to be murdered or robbed.

[bedpanartist]

43. How I deal with panhandlers, who are EVERYWHERE in Dayton, Ohio

I just ask "what makes you think I got any money mothafucka? Why don't you give ME a quarter."

I have had people actually give me change, which I turn down.

When I offer to buy them food, they ALWAYS turn it down. You can't buy crack with a Big Mac.

[THUNDER HANDS]

55. I must have some sort of homeless radar or something

They'll pass right by three or four people and make a b-line right to me, and I usually give them money. Usually it's whatever change I have in my pocket, but if I have no change, I'll give them a dollar.

Two weeks ago I gave a homeless guy $3 because he said he wanted to buy lunch. He was in a Burger King parking lot.

Another time at a different Burger King I didn't have anything smaller than a $20, and no change. So I gave the guy a $20.

I probably shouldn't have done that, but the look of shock on his face was worth it.

:)

[bedpanartist]

56. Congradulations, you helped buy him a six-pack

I live in an inner-city environ with lots of homeless. Do not give them money. Here is a good reason why:

http://66.175.33.58/video/CrackheadPhil.WMV

[silverlib]

62. I disagree...

Have you seen someone go into DT's. It can be deadly. I don't ask questions. I give when I can. I have sat on park benches and visited with some of these people. One offered me a swig out of his bottle and never asked for a dime. He enjoyed the visit. I have often heard that what most homeless people want is to not be treated like they were invisible.

And I didn't watch the video, as the name turned me off. I'm assuming and fear it is part of the "indoctrination plan."

[Posteritatis]

66. A friend of mine told me about one guy in Seattle...

He went by the nickname of "Seven Cent Bob" or something like that; he'd never request - or accept - anything other than seven cents, and was usually straight-up about what he was going for (sometimes a beer, sometimes lunch, etc). Someone'd give him a buck and he'd return change, stuff like that. Apparently he was doing well enough, between the amount being so trivial (and odd!) and the fact that he was recognizable.

I think that probably lines up with the desire not to be invisible.

[bedpanartist]

67. I give a sandwich

Don't know you personally, but I'm guessing that you don't live in a neighborhood like mine, where 30-40 year old men wander around all day getting drunk, pissing on the side of buildings while children drive by, and generally causing economic flight (who the hell wants to live around that).

I will NEVER give money directly to the homeless. The homeless shelters around here discourage it too.

[silverlib]

69. Where I live..

and I understand that it is standard procedure for most shelters. I a "patron" has been drinking, he is not allowed in the facility. Also, many do not allow patrons to come and go from the facility for smoke breaks. The percentage of mentally ill that smoke, drink, and/or do illegal drugs is very high. So, once again, the mentally ill are the prime victims of these policies. While I understand that facilities must have rules for safety sake, this still leaves an almost impenetrable gap for the mentally ill.

I live in an urban area and volunteer with a facility that tries to help, despite cutbacks in funding, the adult mentally ill. That's my background and I am so privileged to have had this opportunity that has taught me so much and broken down the barrier of fear that I once held.

[AngryOldDem]

99. There are reasons behind the policies

You make a good point. Homeless shelters have been asked to take on far too many responsibilities that they ar neither equipped nor qualified to carry out. At any one time, shelter employees are pyschiatrists, doctors, crisis intervention specialists, family service providers, you name it. The homeless (especially mentally ill homeless) have been literally dumped on and dumped by society at large. What is needed are more facilities especially designed for mentally ill homeless, as well as the chronically homeless (HUD definition: homeless at least four times in the past three years).

Ratio to shelter guests and employees is also not good, neither conducive to providing effective assistance or ensuring the most secure environment for all involved.

You seem to have an issue with shelter rules. (If you don't, excuse my misconception.) Last night, a shelter in Dayton held roughly 200 people. Allowing visibly intoxicated people in is asking for a lot of problems. It is a safety issue. Also, it is requesting that guests show at least a modicum of personal responsibility in return for a safe place to stay for the night. That's really not too much to ask, and the majority of our guests understand and comply. A lot of people who show up drunk know that they won't be admitted, and they accept this, leave, get sober, and come in just fine the next night.

The same holds for not allowing them to go in and out at will after call-in time. We are responsible for everyone who passes through our doors. We have a nightly count of guests that must match bodies in the building. If there were a fire, or other emergency that required evacuation of the building, we would have to have an accurate count of those who are staying there. Having an "open-door" policy would make that virtually impossible. Plus, there are those that would abuse such a policy, further taxing an already-overworked staff. I don't see how this creates any kind of "impenetrable gap" for the menttally ill.

If I had to break down the demographics of our population, the majority are mentally ill closely followed by substance abusers and those who just don't make enough money to afford a place of their own. Sadly, the last reason is a very distant third.

Bottom line: More mental health services for the homeless are needed. Without it, we will be seeing more tragedies like what happened in Cincinnati, and society itself will have only itself to blame.

[yardwork]

79. There's your answer about why you have "homeless radar!" LOL!

You sound like a good person.

[ProudDad]

60. Too bad the panhandler didn't have a gun

he could have defended himself against this "good citizen"...



Ooops, I guess I've inadvertently posted bait...Brace yourselves for the gungeonists crawling out of the ooze soon :hide:

[Wcross]

82. Don't you frequent the dungeon?

My goodness, you have oozed out early :hi:

[ProudDad]

90. I don't frequent that place. Not once I realized

that the gungeon is a penile substitute support group... :hi:


My other post was :sarcasm:

[beevul]

92. So your saying that...

So your saying that female gun owners that post there suffer from penis envy?

Thats kind of sexist isn't it?


:rofl: :evilgrin:

[Doctor_J]

75. Well ,that makes it OK then

:eyes:

[Redstone]

77. Guns, guns, we need more guns in America!

Redstone

[Wcross]

81. Would you feel better if she had ran him over with her car?

I really don't understand why people obsess about the method she used to commit the homicide rather than the fact she did it.

[Deep13]

95. Me neither. nt

[ProudDad]

96. The rational contingent here at DU

Know you don't "understand"...

[beevul]

98. Who might they be?

"I Promise to kick the shit out of anyone I find "packing a gun"..." - ProudDad

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2817870#2818239

[Deep13]

93. She shot an unarmed man who posed no threat.

Murder is the appropriate charge. That's based only on what the article states. One must not shoot unless her life in in immediate danger. Further, Ohio has the retreat rule. I inferred from the article that this was at a gas station. If she had a car there, then she had the means to retreat easily. The gun is not the issue here. The issue is that she shot someone she did not like just for the hell of it.

[ProudDad]

97. And if she hadn't had a gun

she couldn't have shot him... :shrug:


According to some from the wacko zone, she'd have just used a sword instead and hacked him up... :crazy: