11-year-old girl shot for playing too close to parked vehicle

[somone]

http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=122520&article=8692894

11 year old girl stable after being shot
11 year old Ivhan'e Merritt is in stable condition, after she was shot by a man over playing too close to his vehicle
Judy Thompson, Newsradio WTAM 1100

(Cleveland) -- Cleveland Police spokesman Sammy Morris says police were called to a home in the 700 block of East 118th Street at 10:42P.M. Friday.

They found 11 year old Ivhan'e Merritt with a gunshot wound to the upper torso. The little girl was then taken to Metro. She's in stable condition.

Police have arrested 55 year old Charles DeBose for the shooting.

Sergeant Morris says the Ivhan'e and another child were playing around DeBose's parked vehicle. He reportedly yelled at them to stop. When they continued, police say, he fired one shot at the children, hitting Ivhan'e in the upper torso...

[wtmusic]

1. If only she was carrying

[slackmaster]

3. That's the last time I'll read one of your insensitive, thoughtless, witless replies

:nuke:

[wtmusic]

10. Yeah, well this is the kind of shit that happens

when tempers flare in an armed civilization. That you're touchy about it is understandable, it's the NRA's Achilles' heel.

[Avant Guardian]

17. Guns dont kill people...

...bullets do

[jpak]

5. yup

n/t

[petronius]

12. If you think that pre-teens carrying guns to playtime is a good idea, you have a lot to learn about

the RKBA and basic firearms safety. There are plenty of people in the Guns and Outdoor Life fora who can give you some valuable pointers, if you're interested...

[wtmusic]

13. You have a lot to learn about sarcasm

and why allowing every pissed-off idiot to carry a gun in public is insanity. Even though this is a prime example.

[petronius]

16. You're the one with the defective sarcasm chip, not me

And your factual analysis chip seems faulty as well - do you have reason to believe that this guy actually was allowed to carry a gun in public? Or that any RKBA advocate would support his actions?

[Avant Guardian]

18. I have been saying this for years

Why do Democratic gun nuts fall for the RW, 'Arm everybody all the time,' madness? Ive owned guns my whole life and NEVER bought into the RW/NRA failed memes. I keep mine locked away when Im not target shooting, which is fairly rare.

[slackmaster]

19. Nobody on DU has ever seriously called for or agreed with arming everyone

Your straw man is a weak indictment.

[wtmusic]

21. Hallelujah, brother.

I grew up hunting. Ducks, deer, pheasant. I don't own guns anymore but fully support A2. In their mad quest for power the NRA has jumped the shark.

:thumbsup:

[Obamanaut]

2. Only in Flor.....uh, er, Tex.... Nevermind. Strange behavior can happen anywhere. nt

[jpak]

4. Proving once again that guns are the answer - and Castle Laws are needed to protect cars from kids

yup

[WatsonT]

7. Are you under the false impression that what this guy did was legal?

[Scuba]

6. Hey! She threatened to scratch his ride. His was the natural response of any property owner.

:sarcasm:

[tabasco]

8. Enjoy your life in prison, idiot.

Hope your vehicle is stolen.

[slackmaster]

9. Sub-humans should not be allowed to own dangerous weapons

:nuke:

[aikoaiko]

11. Here's to hoping the the shooter goes away for a long time (end of his days).

Best wishes to the little girl.

I know there are many who will see this as prime example of gun culture, but I see it as an example of violent criminal culture.

[petronius]

15. Truly. I hope she recovers smoothly, and this attempted murderer gets

plenty of time to regret it.

I also hope the girl's family sues away his car to pay the medical bills...

[notadmblnd]

14. it's a damn shame that some inividuals value their crap over anything.

This guy needs to lose everything he owns over this.

[DrDan]

20. an example of the Castle Law at work . . ..

[slackmaster]

22. You seem to be seriously misinformed about Castle Doctrine laws

The use of deadly force described in the OP would not be protected under the Castle Doctrine law of any US state.

For your education, here is a link to Ohio's law, which was passed and signed in 2008:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org//publicfiles/127_SB_184_PH_Y.pdf

[DrDan]

23. not referring to the intent of Casle Laws - just how they play out in real time

[slackmaster]

24. Ridiculous bullcrap with no evidence to back it up

We've had a strong Castle Doctrine law here in California since the early 1970s. It hasn't caused any harm, and has protected thousands of people from being prosecuted for legitimately protecting themselves.

Charles DuBose won't even attempt to use Ohio's self-defense laws at his trial. I don't know what his problem is, but I doubt that it has anything to do with the idea that people have a right to defend themselves and their loved ones against violent attackers.

I suspect he's a psychopath.

[DrDan]

32. just "bullcrap" huh . . . . that little girl was not really shot? . . . . The guy was protecting his

vehicle with his gun.

as I said - Castle Law at work.

[aikoaiko]

34. your understanding of the castle law as it applies to occupied cars is weak.

There still needs to be a threat or a felonious act in order to justify lethal force. There is no description of that in the story.

This guy was just a violent criminal with a gun.

[slackmaster]

40. False argument on many levels

No Castle Doctrine law anywhere in the US protects people who use deadly force against someone who commits or threatens to commit minor property damage.

Not even in Texas at night would that be a legitimate exercise of Castle Doctrine. I even gave you a link to the full text of Ohio's Castle Doctrine law, and you obviously haven't even read it.

The law had nothing to do with this incident. This was just a criminal committing a crime.

[WatsonT]

31. Saying something and making it true are two different things

You know that right?

What this guy did was illegal and even in the most pro-gun, pro-castle law states he'd go to jail.


That "repeating a lie often enough so it becomes true" only works when the other side isn't allowed to rebut it.

[lunatica]

25. A preventable tragedy happens to a child and some people here fight over guns

I find that very very sad.

[wtmusic]

26. Many people see gun control as a way to make it preventable. nt

[petronius]

30. Knowing what we know so far about this story, what gun control would you propose that

would have prevented this tragedy? (So far, all you've contributed here are trite regurgitative attempts at sarcasm...)

[wtmusic]

33. Not enough details to be specific.

In general, stronger regulation of handguns.

States with Higher Gun Ownership and Weak Gun Laws Lead Nation in Gun Death

[petronius]

35. So, nothing? That's kind of what I expected... (nt)

[wtmusic]

36. No, it's called being truthful.

If you want to jump to conclusions, that's your prerogative.

Conversely, your smug comeback was expected since there's really no NRA answer to the hard statistics at the link.

[petronius]

37. Smug? Hardly. I acknowledged that you suggested nothing - no conclusion

jumping required. If you want to discuss specific proposals that would prevent the tragedy in the OP, without infringing 2A rights, I'm all ears...

[wtmusic]

38. Still waiting on a response to my stats.

Not holding my breath, in case you were concerned. :D

[petronius]

39. What about them? You've yet to make any proposals or specific statements, so what are we

discussing? :shrug:

As I look back through the subthread I see that you made a claim, then declined to support it. You seem to think your table does that for you, but you won't say how. So again, what specifically do you propose, based on the OP or your table, to prevent tragedies like this one?

[slackmaster]

27. I think better access to mental health care MIGHT have prevented this one

But there is no guarantee that Mr. DuBose would have taken advantage of it.

[wtmusic]

28. Bulletproof vests for kids is another idea which has not been fully explored. nt

[Exultant Democracy]

29. Guns keep cars safe from children. t should be harder to get a gun then a licence to drive.

[slackmaster]

41. In fact it IS harder to get a gun than to get a license to drive

No state denies driver's licenses to convicted felons, or people who have been charged with misdemeanor domestic violence, or who have been adjudicated mentally incompetent, or have been dishonorably discharged from the military. Some states even issue driver's licenses to people who are in the country illegally, and they are prohibited by federal law from buying guns.

You should make at least a small effort to research these things before commenting on them.

[Exultant Democracy]

42. So this is where we pretend there i no such thing as a gu show loop hole?

[slackmaster]

43. The same laws that apply everywhere other than gun shows apply at gun shows too

So, there is in fact no loophole.

The term "gun show loophole" is a propaganda term used by people who wish to put all private sales of used firearms under government scrutiny. That's not an unreasonable position, though I disagree with it. I'd just like to see a little more honesty in the language used in the debate.

[XanaDUer]

44. "11 year old girl stable after being shot"

http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=122520&article=8692894

The little girl is stable and, so far, alive, thank goodness:

READ MORE:


(Cleveland) -- Cleveland Police spokesman Sammy Morris says police were called to a home in the 700 block of East 118th Street at 10:42P.M. Friday.

They found 11 year old Ivhan'e Merritt with a gunshot wound to the upper torso. The little girl was then taken to Metro. She's in stable condition.

Police have arrested 55 year old Charles DeBose for the shooting.

EDIT TO ADD: He shot her b/c she was playing too close to his car.

:scared:

[jpak]

45. Castle Law Lovers take note

yup

[NutmegYankee]

46. This has nothing to do with the Castle Doctrine

Castle Doctrine justifies the defense of one's home. It has never applied to shooting a child near a car.

[AlinPA]

48. I think "place" can be a car in some states. I don't know which states, but people can claim

that the car is their "place" and apply the Castle Doctrine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

[NutmegYankee]

55. True, but the defense is from violent attack or intrusion.

And a child playing near a car will never meet that. The shooter is going to jail. Period.

[AlinPA]

57. Obviously.

[jpak]

51. Protecting property with deadly force is allowed under the GOP/NRA Castle Doctrine

and you can shoot and kill people you "think" trying to break into your neighbor's house and get away with it

yup

[TheWraith]

53. No, it doesn't. Castle Doctrine laws do not cover property.

All that they say is that if you are in your home or business, you are not required to try and retreat from an attacker first before exercising self-defense. Few rational people could disagree with that.

[NutmegYankee]

54. Do you actually believe the rubbish you post?

Castle Doctrine allows you to defend against "Violent attack or Intrusion". Texas's laws are broader than the Castle Doctrine, and have nothing to do with this topic. An unarmed 11 year-old playing near a car will not meet the standard in any state.

[jpak]

58. In Texas, a man shot and killed two alleged burglars on his neighbor's property and was not charged

thanks to Texas' Castle Law

Castle Law deniers cannot ignore these facts

yup

[NutmegYankee]

60. Once again - Do you actually believe the rubbish you post?

This case has nothing to do with Texas. And if I recall correctly, Texas has laws that go beyond the Castle Doctrine, making your argument moot.

Shooting a girl playing near a car had nothing to do with the Castle Doctrine. The Castle Doctrine is an obviously good principle, allowing a resident to defend themselves from violent attack in their own home/apt. No reasonable person is going to just let themselves get raped or knifed to death because it wasn't codified into law. It exists to protect that person when they justly and rightfully defend themselves.

yup

[jpak]

62. The two guys are still dead and the moran that killed them is still free

It is a Castle Law - that's what the law intended - to allow people to use deadly force to protect property....

and get away with it

yup

[NutmegYankee]

63. Wrong!

Castle Doctrine is for defense of self in one's dwelling, as it is considered the refuge of last resort. "Make my day" or Stand your ground" laws are not part of the Castle Doctrine.

yeppers

[jpak]

64. That is what happened in Texas - and you can look it up

yup

[NutmegYankee]

65. Do you even read a post before you reply? nt

[onehandle]

47. 'She's coming right for us!'

[Odin2005]

49. This is the end result of child-hating "Childfree" crap.

He probably thinks kids are "crotch-droppings".

[hlthe2b]

50. You think he wouldn't have been just as willing to shoot an adult

who got too near his "precious" car? I think his problems go well beyond "child-hating" attitudes.

[Odin2005]

52. He sounds like one of those asshole "stay off my lawn, damn kids" types.

[XanaDUer]

59. I am childfree by choice and would never shoot anyone, period

for being on my lawn or near my car.

I think this man has issues far beyond a small social movement. He may have kids. I do think some of this has to do with our my-automobile-is-next-to-God, materialistic society, but that may be a reach, too.

[Motown_Johnny]

56. these are the stories that make me continue to support the death penalty

Go ahead and flame me if you want, but (IMO) a 55 year old man who shoots a little girl in the chest for playing to close to his car needs to have his existence ended.



P.S. Sammy Morris should start going by Sam





This Is Sammy Morris

[johnnie]

61. So this is an Ohio story only?

Why did this get moved?

[onehandle]

66. Gungeoneers don't appreciate bad press.

And nobody wants to see their propaganda, which is why the Admins isolate their 'cause' in the gungeon.