Since when is Oklahoma landlocked?

[Nicole]

On Special Report with Brit Hume tonight Jim Angle, who was filling in for Brit, said Oklahoma was landlocked.

In reporting Oklahoma's legislative vote against the port deal, Jim stated
"Oklahoma is landlocked so consider that vote an expression of sentiment."

When did they shut down the Port of Catoosa?
Why did I have to hear about us being landlocked from Fox instead of our state officials? :sarcasm:

[RoyGBiv]

1. Flyover Country ...

We don't really matter. Didn't you get the memo? Oh, I bet they sent it on one of those boats that can't get here. That would explain things. :-)

Seriously, though, even if OK really were landlocked, it has extensive interests in the security of ports in Texas and LA, s the "expression of sentiment" line is pretty much bullshit anyway.

[Nicole]

4. I missed the memo

You are right about it being bullshit.

[NaturalHigh]

2. Most of the media doesn't know anything about Oklahoma.

Neither do most of the people on this forum. It wasn't that long ago when people in GD were cheering for the wildfires here because we're a "red state."

[RoyGBiv]

3. Still pissed about that ...

I tried not to do so, because I know a lot of it was purely ignorance, but I took mental notes of many names. I flinch whenever I see them around, especially when I witness them go off on someone else for insensitivity or ignorance or prejudice or some such thing, which has happened recently.

Even some official types said some of it was meant as humor and that Okies were just to sensitive about it right now...right now, as though it's okay to be as ass at some future date, just not right after someone dies or loses their home. Feh.

I must shut up now before I get really obnoxious.

[a la izquierda]

6. Part of the problem is...

many people here don't care about the rest of the country, except maybe Texas. Not all, but a bunch. I've only lived here for a year and a half, and let me tell you...I've been treated like dogpoop because I'm from California. "Oh, you're one of them liberal-communist-hippies" or whatever is normally what comes out of peoples mouths. And good grief have I been preached to! That's never happened before! I had a student yesterday tell me "Well, hopefully California will break off and float to Korea". Nice. He had no clue that I was from California. But he was from here...
And to a beach girl, you are landlocked. Rivers don't count :)
I actually like OK the more I live here, but some of the people here (like in any other state) are for the birds. Making fun of wildfires and natural disasters is tacky and mean.

Anyway, just my two cents

[RoyGBiv]

8. Welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

I think the Okies in this forum would be the first to admit this state isn't exactly a beacon of progressivism or even common sense at times. But there's a difference between recognizing that, even joking about it, and writing off the people who live there, entirely as not even worthy of living because of it. That's what I and many others got out of these comments many, MANY people were making. A lot of Okies are the way they are because they're ignorant, and they pass down this ignorance through generations almost as a matter of pride. We have a history of that, in fact. Ignorance can be cured, but not in the face of prejudice.

Anyway, welcome again. :-)

[Nicole]

5. You nailed it there

They don't seem to want to know anything either.

I remember the wildfire cheering. It was ridicules & insulting.

[a la izquierda]

7. Wildfire

Totally true--most Californians don't keep anything but California on their radar--though they would absolutely sympathize with the wildfire situation. We get 'em every year and they're completely devastating.

[Nicole]

9. Welcome to DU michele

:hi:

I'm sure most Californians would sympathize with the wildfire situation. However that was not the case this time. It was a Californian who posted the thread asking what the hell was wrong with us that we couldn't put the fires out. It went downhill from there.

[fishwax]

10. but oklahoma is landlocked

because it is entirely or almost entirely surrounded by land. I know a few other landlocked states have ports as well, such as Idaho ...

Of course, Oklahoma does have a port, though, and certainly has more to say about the deal than a mere expression of sentiment.

[RoyGBiv]

11. Landlocked ...

That's not the definition of landlocked, although I do agree it really has nothing to do with a port.

Landlocked in the geographical sense means a no navigable outlet to the ocean exists. The Arkansas River is a navigable river for ships of a certain size. The Red River could be if it were dredged, and it was at one point in time.

[fishwax]

12. I can't find that definition in any of my dictionaries

the only one I can find online is the one I quoted, and the defs in my house dictionaries are similar. The geographic definition of landlocked I remember/think of is "having no coast," though I can't find any support for that, so I'm not sure where I got it.

Anyway, landlocked isn't as useful as a term when applied to states as it is to nations, since Arkansas can't militarily restrict our access to the Gulf as they might if we were independent countries. But either way, I don't think the presence of an inland port means an entity isn't landlocked.

Anyway, I should semi-apologize for nitpicking definitions :toast::hi:

The story of the Red River is actually pretty interesting--the clearing of the previously unnavigable Red by Captain Shreve in the 1830s had long-lasting effects in that the increased flow of water lead to a strengthened Atchafalaya River (into which the Red flows). By the 20th century, the Atchafalaya was strong enough to threaten the Mississippi River, and without the intervention of the Army Corps of Engineers would have captured the Mississippi several decades ago 100 or so miles upstream from New Orleans, thus eliminating NOLA as a major seaport. I recently read an essay by John McPhee (can't remember what it was called, but it was included in the book "Control of Nature") about the resulting engineering operation. Pretty fascinating article, and the Red River's role in the tale just goes to show how long-term and unforeseen might be the effects of our interventions in nature ...

[RoyGBiv]

13. I can't quote anything either ...

No apologies necessary of course.

I remember this from some history class I took and a bit about how a nation's fortunes could be influenced by being landlocked. The patterns of landlocked countries were readily apparent as opposed to non-landlocked countries diverging in various directions. The interesting thing, in this context, was that nations without a coast but with a river over which they could navigate to reach the sea did not follow the patterns of truly landlocked countries.

If we were to get nitpicky with this, there are really three basic categorizations, those with no outlet at all, those with an outlet via river or canal system, and those with a coastline. Perhaps, in the end, the meaning of "landlocked" is somewhat like the meaning of "civilization." Different people define it in different ways depending on their discipline.

Anyway, regarding the article you mention, that sounds fascinating. Any chance at all you have ready access to a citation? If not, I'll find it, but I'm a lazy researcher sometimes. :-)

[fishwax]

14. As luck would have it, I even have a link to an online version

All I knew for sure was that it was originally in the New Yorker, so I did a quick search to try to find the specific issue and came up with a link to the whole article. Must be my lucky day, haha.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?050912fr_archive01

The Red River's role in the article is minor, but it stood out to me since I had only recently moved away from Oklahoma when I read it. in the wake of Katrina. The article itself is pretty long, but I found it very interesting.

[RoyGBiv]

15. WooHoo ...

Thanks.

Things like this tend to lead me in other directions. I've read lengthy articles, even books at times, and taken a single point from them and run with it into wide areas.

[fishwax]

16. me too ... that's what i like about research

:D

[bigbrother05]

17. That's where Shreveport, LA came in

There were discussions through the years to extend the navigation on the Red up to Texarkana TX/AR and maybe around to SE OK, but the Corps dollars aren't available.

Think the port discussion is valid, but most folks view land licked as without a coastline.