Okies, what can you tell me about SQ 712?

[Catch22Dem]

I'm seeing a lot of signs. I'm gonna go do my own research right now.

[RoyGBiv]

1. Horse Racing

712 may be the only thing that can save Remmington Park in OKC, which is really what the original impetus behind it is. The horse track just plain bleeds money and always has, but they're now pushing the issue that Indian gambling hurts their business. If that were all there were to it, I'd oppose it because I've never been a fan of the park or people who've run it. They do so very poorly.

I think the arguments that the horse racing industry in and of itself is about to pack up and move out of OK are exaggerated at best, completely baseless at worst. We had a horse racing industry here before track betting was allowed. It was mostly centered on breeding at that time, and that'll continue regardless. As I said, I see this as mostly a Remmington Park thing.

But, that said, I'm voting in favor of it because I happen to think gaming in the state should be expanded, and this leads in that direction. 712 allows horse tracks to put in the same kinds of gaming machines at their tracks that tribal casinos use. It also regulates to some degree tribal casinos, and the state as a whole will be getting revenue from the gaming machines. This is supposed to go into education, which is sorely needed right now. Still odd that people will piss away hundreds of dollars in a casino and won't support a tax increase for schools, but whatever. I'll take it however I can get it. Our schools are a disaster.

I guess you can tell I'm lukewarm on this. I have some questions about tribal sovreignty issues and as mentioned, I don't care about Remmington Park. But, this could potentially benefit the state as a whole, not just horse racing, and at least some of the tribes are actually supporting this measure. So, I will be voting for it.

And then I'll hope that the legislature doesn't use any income generated to excuse yet another reduction in the general fund education budget.

[mrbill]

2. vote yes on 712 and get lots of nice texas money

Education, Indian gaming and horse tracks.

The way mrbill understands it is that education might receive $90 million yearly in new funds from arrangements with the Indian nations and the horse tracks. The Indian nations will enter into compacts with the state and pay a 4-6% tax on gaming machines and a 10% tax on non-house table games.

Slot machines would be allowed at 3 race tracks that will pay a tax.

Underlying: an Oklahoma gaming commission would be established and if the lottery passes, the Indian's lawyers could move into class 3 gambling, like real las vegas action.

Shreveport would be toast.

Drive an hour from DFW or four hours to Louisiana????

[Catch22Dem]

3. How do the tribes feel about this arrangement?

I'm not one to infringe on their sovereignty.

[RoyGBiv]

4. Tribal Support Not Universal

The Choctaws have come out explicitly for it and backed up their support with a lot of money. The Shawnee tribe has contributed money as well. Chickasaw and Cherokee representatives have also offered official support for the question.

The Sac and Fox tribe explicitly opposes it on grounds of tribal sovreignty. Others, like the Creek, officially support it, but its members are split on the question.

Here's a snippet from a story in the Daily Oklahoman:

Tribal support not universal

Under SQ 712, three horse-racing tracks could offer electronic gaming machines. Tribes could increase the speed of play in their machines and could offer nonhouse-banked card games. In the first year, the state would collect $70 million earmarked for education from both industries, supporters say.

Tribes could sign compacts with the state to play the faster games. Although the language of the model compact is complicated, industry experts say it also would allow video poker and video blackjack.

The three tribes with the most casino games -- Chickasaw, Choctaw and Cherokee -- back SQ 712. However, there's not unanimity among other tribes.

For instance, chiefs of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation and Seminole Nation support it, but many of their tribal council members oppose it. The Creek National Council has scheduled a meeting next week for Rhoads and other opponents to present their case.

http://www.newsok.com/article/1325486/?template=news/main

Keep in mind it is the Daily Oklahoman. They're prone to running stories that emphasize opposition over support. But, this is the only web news source I could find on the subject.

OnEdit: This is in the article, but I thought I'd mention it in case someone reads this and doesn't want to go to the site. The reason the question could interfere with tribal sovreignty is that in order to take advantage of the compacts for gaming machines, the tribe must first agree to a tobacco compact. So, it's sort of blackmail seen from one perspective.

OTOH, the tribes must willingly involve themselves in the compacts, and as long as they don't sign them, nothing is changed about the way the tribes conduct gaming. Thus, it turns into an internal battle within the tribes themselves. However, as mentioned, the intent of this part of the question is to pick at a part of the sovreignty issue.

[mrbill]

5. the chickasaws are wetting temselves over the potential.....

The Chicksaw nation strongly supports this measure and has donated to the cause accordingly.

Currently all gaming activity on Indian lands in Oklahoma is based on games of chance that are legal in the state, that would be bingo and horse racing. All of the "slot" machines are now based on some bingo formula. You may think that you are playing "lucky sevens" but you are playing bingo. That would be class 2 gambling.

SC712 and the passage of the lottery inititive would open the doors to class 3 gaming, video poker, blackjack and tablegames. That's the real stuff. A large percentage of people from the DFW area would drive north rather than fly to Vegas or drive to Louisiana.

The Chickasaw's Winstar Casino at exit 1 on I-35 is ahead of the curve. About a year ago they expanded their rinky-dink machine/bingo/otb operation into a 140,000 sq-ft building and cleared $40 million bucks in their first year. They recently opened an additional 100,000 sq-ft of gaming space and have plans for a hotel and golf course. With real Vegas-type gambling, they could make $200 million next year.

A 4 to 6 percent tax on gambling to go to education and the tribe gets video poker and blackjack. That's a no-brainer, good for everybody in Oklahoma. Lots of dumb Texas money coming in.

Then there's the pesky cigarette issue..............

[andino]

6. So the Schools will get $90 million

but will they cut the other funding or will this be additional money?