Specter leads Sestak big in new Quinnipiac poll

[PADEMJES12]

Hi guys here's a link to a new poll released today with Senator Specter increasing his lead
over Sestak.

http://www.pa2010.com/2009/12/specter-leads-sestak-big-tied-with-toomey-in-new-poll/

[T Wolf]

1. Specter - Toomey, what's the dif? Better to show pols that being a traitor will not be rewarded

than to get (maybe) a marginally-better Senator.

But there is no operational difference between the repukes - neither will support liberal positions, not that any will come from the current administration.

[demodonkey]

2. If you don't know "what's the dif" between Specter & Toomey, get another paintbrush.

Your brush is way too broad.

Think back to the time when our Senators were Specter and Santorum. If you seriously think there was no difference between them, shame on you.

The lurking neocons will soon be thanking you for your help.

[T Wolf]

3. I think the gain from NOT rewarding that POS Spectre more than outweighs the

actual, electoral, reich-wing voting that Toomey will bring to DC.

Spectre is not a Democrat and does not support Democratic ideals. Rewarding him by electing him on our ticket tells everyone that traditional democratic ideals are worthless and not worth fighting for.

For the few votes where he would differ from Toomey, it just is not worth it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

4. Who the heck is 'Spectre?'

[PADEMJES12]

5. TWOLF is the "Spectre'... he's made a "spectre"

of himself and seems desperate, which is why i wont even bother responding Freddie.

[Born Free]

6. all 3 have records

For new users and/or anyone that is not familiar with any of the 3 candidates http://www.vote-smart.org has records and other valuable information on these candidates, you can learn a lot just by looking at how they voted on various issues as well as read the ratings various special interest groups give them. For example, some special interests may believe the union check-off vote was important for working families, whereas the another may think protecting union rights is bad - you as an individual can decide which is best. If you really want to get into it you can make a list of pros and cons for each candidate and use that as a basis for deciding which candidate is the best choice. It's a little more work to do the research, but you will feel better for it, even if the candidate you believe is best does not prevail.

[PADEMJES12]

7. Born Free....

Are you spending this snowy cold holiday season at Valley Forge under Joe's command eating
canned beans and shivering looking at the polls being down by 3 touchdowns and a safety?

Since you mention working families, id simply point out Senator Specter has always gotten backing from
labor and rightfully so, whereas Sestak's respect for working families has continually been demonstrated
by the "lack of respect" he shows by how he treats his staffers. In fact, Sestak was the exact kind of
Boss Unions were created to stand up to fight low wages and taking advantage of young workers.

[Born Free]

8. wow, I'm impressed, thanks !!!

PADEMJES12,

Thanks for your concern...

No I have not been out in the cold much, but you did bring back some not so fond memories of being
out in the cold at Fort Dix back in the winter of '69 -'70. Later on, I did spend couple months at the
Valley Forge Army Hospital, but trust me, no one went hungry or cold there. There may have been
some unfortunate heroes with missing body parts but most were still happy knowing they would
soon be going back home to be with their families.

Once again, thanks for the concerns about my health and for your never ending willingness to demonstrate why
the more intelligent people here at DU do their own research such as visiting http://www.vote-smart.org to see
actual records rather than make fools of themselves repeating things that may not be accurate. People
wanting the later would do better on one the right wing forums.


joe

[PADEMJES12]

9. Just checking in to make sure you didnt get frost bite :)

Hey Joe:

Glad you are ok... b/t... although i think you have a serious case of "frost bite" from your tales of
George Washington with Sestak... though you are an okay fella. Thats fine... I advise everyone to save their
money for the general election, particularly when someone is down as bad as Joe and slipping.

Im always glad to check in though. This is a "chat room" and a forum for debate, so if you can't go toe to toe in the
heat.... get out of the kitchen :)

Happy holidays!

[Born Free]

10. thanks again, PADEMJES12

I failed to mention it, Happy Holidays to you as well. I bet you are the hit of the party with all your Clichés.

[Born Free]

27. I wasn't at Valley Forge Military Academy either...

From the podium at the Valley Forge Military Academy, the retired U.S. Navy admiral said, "Thank you, Pennsylvania, and thank you to everyone who's here tonight!"

"This election is about you, about you and everyone in this great Commonwealth who stood up and wanted their voices heard," Sestak said. "This is what democracy looks like -- a win for the people over the establishment, over the status quo, even over Washington, D.C. I will never forget that it was the people of Pennsylvania that made it happen tonight, and I will work so hard to earn their trust and their confidence."

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/politics/Sestak_Victory_Speech_051810


I hope you and the other naysayers will support the democratic candidate in November, Joe Sestak. As you have now learned,
the race is not over until the votes are counted.



BTW: My wife and I did visit Valley Forge a few weeks ago, we like riding the old Harley to Valley Forge, it's about 90 miles from us.
We saw a lot of deer, more than we usually see there. We are big eaters, love to stop at Shady Maple Smorgasboard on
route 23 for breakfast and then continue riding on 23 until we get to Valley Forge. We ride through Valley Forge several times
during the sumer months. I am currently wrestling with replacing the rear tire and brake pads on the old Harley but hope to have it
back together by the weekend. When I saw Joe Sestak won , I rmembered this thread and your concerns about me and Valley Forge,
so I thought I would check in with an update but probably will not be very active. I am spending more time on the Harley EVO forums
(actually "Evolution", a type of engine Harley stopped making about 10 years ago but many after
market versions are alive and well today).


joe

[Divernan]

28. I doubt Specter's supporters are anywhere near DU this morning.

Many of us Sestak supporters have stated in DU threads that we would support Specter, albeit reluctantly, in November if he won the primary. The same cannot be said of the newbie, low posters who were all over DU attacking Sestak. "Wisteria" when pinned down on the question stated that if Sestak won the primary, he/she would devote his/her time to working on races other than the PA Senate race. In other words, they weren't around DU during the last presidential primary and general election, materialized abruptly to boost Specter, and now will disappear from DU again. I wonder . . .could they have been Specter staffers truly desperate to hang onto their jobs for another 6 years? Toomey staffers who wanted Specter to win because they knew Toomey could beat Specter easily while Sestak would be a formidable opponent?

Whatever their origin, good riddance! And on to November and victory for United States Senator Sestak. What joy to have the Keystone state represented in the US Senate by men of the caliber of Casey and Sestak, instead of Santorum and Specter.

[Bunny]

29. Heh. We've already had one sour grapes post from an alleged Specter supporter.

I've had my doubts all along about another one, in terms of possibly being on Specter's staff. I don't expect to see that particular one back here anytime soon.

Arlen Specter wasn't the worst possible option (Santorum :scared:) but I'll shed no tears for him now that he's gone.

[PADEMJES12]

30. congrats on your win Joe and all of your hardwork.

im a fairly conservative dem (as you know) and will be looking at the candidates.
best of luck to you! I had fun with our posts.

[Born Free]

31. PADEMJES12

As I wrote before, I had nothing to do with the campaign, just saw Joe Sestak on Ed Shultz and thought he would be better candidate than another sweetheart deal like the Obama people did with Joe Lieberman. It's understandable they would make another deal, but I was hopeful the democrats in Pennsylvania would not buy into it. I did not contribute to any campaign and I did nothing other than vote, but I have been around long enough to know you can't call a race 6 months before the election. The "Valley Forge" rang a bell so I thought I would check back to see if you were going to support Joe Sestak the same way were going to support Spector if he won.

joe

[demodonkey]

11. Well I dealt personally w/both offices (Specter and Santorum) and there was a HUGE difference.

If enough Democrats as so foolish as you are as to let us throw away a United States Senate seat to the far-right neocons, God help this party and God help our country.

[Born Free]

12. seems a bit like the same type of arguments used for Joe Lieberman

" If enough Democrats as so foolish as you are as to let us throw away a United States Senate seat to the far-right neocons,
God help this party and God help our country."

I am not saying I think Santorum and Spector are the same. However, this seems a bit like the same type of arguments used for Joe Lieberman
after he lost the democratic primary. I think democrats should look at the candidates records and decide who they think is best. Democrats now
control everything, but because of the types of democrats we put charge we haven't seen the real change that has been promised, but they tell us
it will be worse if we don't keep re-electing them. These days, too many elected democrats tend to give up before the fight even begins, yet they keep
going back to the same arguments that is will be worse if you don't re-elect them. This country and God will be around long after these democrats are gone.

[demodonkey]

13. Who will be around after these democrats are gone....

This country and God will be around long after these democrats are gone.

God, probably. This country, I'm not so sure... especially if we throw away US Senate seats to neocons. This country just plain can't stand too many more years with the the far-right in control.

And yes, there is a difference between far-right whackjob Republicans (like Santorum and Toomey) and Democrats. Even crappy Democrats.

[Born Free]

14. "God, probably. This country, I'm not so sure...

especially if we throw away US Senate seats to neocons "

Let's talk a little about polls and throwing away seats... Some individuals here on DU like to throw the current poll numbers around like the election is already over.

Well, OK let's do it !! lets look at another poll, the first one I grabbed from Google:


http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2009/12/poll-gop-holds-lead-in-pennsylvania-governors-race.html

Poll: GOP holds lead in Pa. governor's race

Republican state Attorney General Tom Corbett holds double-digit leads over three potential Democratic challengers: state Auditor General Jack Wagner (43%-33%), former congressman Joe Hoeffel (46%-30%), and Allegheny County Executive Dan Onorato (45%-30%).




Going by the posted polls it looks like the next governor of Pennsylvania will be Tom Corbett:


If Tom Corbett is the next governor of Pennsylvania, then he appoints the senator should a current elected senator dies.



Now lets look at something else easily found on Google:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/15/arlen.specter/index.html


updated 10:13 p.m. EDT, Tue April 15, 2008

Arlen Specter's Hodgkin's disease returns (78 years old)


"Sen. Specter's early diagnosis of his recurrent Hodgkin's disease has a five-year survival rate of 60 percent."

This is his second diagnosis, it was originally diagnosed in 2005, when it was stage IVB

from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma


Hodgkin's lymphoma, previously known as Hodgkin's disease, is a type of lymphoma,
which is a type of cancer originating from white blood cells called lymphocytes.


* Stage IV is disseminated involvement of one or more extralymphatic organs.

The absence of systemic symptoms is signified by adding 'A' to the stage; the presence of systemic symptoms is signified by adding 'B' to the stage. For localized extranodal extension from mass of nodes that does not advance the stage, subscript 'E' is added.

Other studies have reported the following to be the most important adverse prognostic factors: mixed-cellularity or lymphocyte-depleted histologies, male sex, large number of involved nodal sites, advanced stage, age of 40 years or more, the presence of B symptoms, high erythrocyte sedimentation rate, and bulky disease (widening of the mediastinum by more than one third, or the presence of a nodal mass measuring more than 10 cm in any dimension.)





Let's see the highest stage cancer in 2005, recurred again in 2008, 78 years old at the time of the second cancer with a 60% chance of living for 5 years.

As a cancer survivor that has finally be classified as cured, I can tell you that anything less than 5 years is classified as NED ( NO evidence of Disease), they do that for a reason, too many patients had recurring cancer that was not noticed by the doctors, many died. They came up with the 5 year because most cancers show up before the 5 years is up, but not all. Arlan Spector may be NED but he is not cured. Do you get it? NED means they don't see the disease, it does not mean the patient is cured.

"I was surprised by the PET scan findings because I have been feeling so good," Specter said in the statement. ( from 2008 article)

It is easy to see there is a good probability Arlan Spector will not survive another term and do you really believe Tom Corbitt will appoint another democrat?



It's frustrating, these individuals tell the base to ignore the dismal past record where Arlan voted against democratic ideas, ignore the the Anita Hill incident , and yes ignore the fact that with Arlan Spector, age and health is an issue.

We keep hearing you must vote for Spector or you are throwing away the seat - Arlan Spector is just about at the end, we can elect a good democrat or let Tom Corbiit appoint someone, which could even be be Rick Santorum.



joe

[PADEMJES12]

15. Joes operating from the flawed premise

that we're going to lose the guvs race. I know thats something demodonkey and i will fight like heck along w the rest of the dems to make sure that doesnt happen. Joe... your candidate is down by 23 points and resorting to health is desperate as Sestak writing a letter to Pelosi. Sestak is hurting the party and its time for him to step aside from this race soon. Having a no name candidate at the top of the ticket is lunacy.

We are a party opposite of republicans, looking forward not holding past grudges. Thats why we are now the big tent party. If you want to hold grudges, i suggest u join the gop.

[Born Free]

16. still ignore reality..

PADEMJES12,

There you go again, ignore reality, pretend facts are not relative and only choose those things that support your point of view. Likewise, as evident by your earlier actions in this thread also enjoy making issues where there are no issues. You mock and ridicule typing and errors in grammar, yet at the same time pretend to boast that democrats are a "big tent " when it suits your argument. The reality is English is NOT the first language of many members of the democratic party but for fear of ridicule some do not participate in these forums because they witness the personal attacks you and others do when you have no other way to promote your views. I am sure TWOLF can handle it with no trouble as he has been around for a long time, but many new visitors, those same people your line of arguments depend on because they do not know the history or the actual records of the candidates may be scared off. You don't want people to do the research to see the facts, to view the records or to look at reality, you want people to blindly follow rather than look at reality.

Statements such as "I know thats something demodonkey and i will fight like heck along w the rest of the dems to make sure that doesn't happen." but yet proudly posting the race is already over because those same polls currently show Spector ahead. These inconsistent , hypocritical statements make your arguments worthless to anyone that has any knowledge of history.

Many might see Spector as the easy way out, much like Joe Lieberman was the easy way out, and dropping the public option was the easy way out and ignoring the union workers when it came to the important check-off vote was an easy way out and so on, but some democrats have grown tired of the easy way out that never leads to a better place. Some democrats are growing tired of business/politics as usual and want real change, some believe the democratic leadership is losing touch with the base and yet the leadership still suggests the base should accept whatever they choose to do, shut up, be happy, vote the way we tell you.

Merry Christmas to all and yet again , look at the records, don't accept that everything being told to you is accurate. It's not the easy way, but it is the best way. Choose a candidate on his or her merits , not because the leadership thinks you should vote for a particular candidate. Don't let them scare you with statements that if you do not do what they want the world will come to an end....You have a right to vote for the candidate you choose in any race. You have the responsibility to choose the candidate YOU believe will be best.


http://www.votesmart.org/

[PADEMJES12]

17. the reality is Senator Specter is up by 23....

blowing out Joe Sestak who is slipping in the polls and has a dried up fundraising base. Also, way
to be a pessimist on the guvs race. In terms of historical references... we already know
that Born Free is not credible. After all with his tales of BS he has digested from Sestak, in his tall tales
of comparing Sestak to George Washington.

Its clear... that Born Free does have a serious case of brain frost bite :) Everyone, if you want to support
a candidate that has no respect for the 4th Amendment, then Joe is your man perhaps... if you want to support
someone who campaigned against the war, then turns around and funds it and NOW supports the Afghan surge, at these
challenging economic crossroads, then Joe is your guy.

I've enjoy your little posts Born Free... soon reality will be that its time for Sestak to step aside and stop the
divisive games and for us to rally the Dem base against neo-con Pat Toomey, and march to victory in the Senate
and Guvs races.

[Born Free]

18. PADEMJES12

PADEMJES12,

I think most reasonably Intelligent individuals can quickly determine which posts try to be consistent, avoid inaccuracies , follow the records and
reality and which are mostly personal attacks and innuendo. I really thought you understood that I left your previous rants go, not out fear or
weakness but rather because it is my nature to be as polite as possible. I confess, some times with less fortunate individuals, it is difficult
deciding if it better to let them go or engage them in hopes to help them.

The most important thing I can write for anyone that reads these forums in general or this thread in particular is they should NOT allow anyone
tell them who to vote for or to accept anything as gospel . Everyone should try to learn as much as possible about the available candidates and
choose on the things they feel are most important. The decision is personal and the decision is for each and every voter. Repetition does not
make something more accurate, it's just a tool advertisers use to make people think a particular way. That is why advertisers use slogans and jingles
to influence your buying decisions - it doesn't make their product any better.



Once again, a great source of information can be found at Vote-Smart

http://www.votesmart.org/

[PADEMJES12]

19. Yes i agree, we'll leave it up to intelligent people....

reading this to see who has the better of the argument and make their own decision. b/t... i know it pains you to have a fake progressive Sestak held to the same standard, but you know what they say... when you throw a punch... you'd better expect to get hit back. Yes, i encourage readers to stay away from tales of Washington and Sestak and stay in reality, focusing on Democratic victory in 2010 against right winger Pat Toomey, but also to hold everyone to the same standard, which Born Free neglects to urge. Sestak supporters started the negative attacks by following Joe's negativism which has become increasingly desperate... Sestak and his drones should not be hurting the PA Democratic party with divisive and negative tactics. I think we're done here.

p.s. You shouldnt keep posting the same link, i think it mentions in the rules about redundancy doesnt it?

Here's a little reminder of the DU Rules as my gifts to you on the post during the holiday season :) Merry XMAS

Do not spam the message board by posting the same message repeatedly (for Born Free...)

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website. (for Sestak extremists, who have openly opted for a Toomey victory... yes im referring to TWOLF)


Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here. (for TWOLF, see also above)

and for everyone as democrats working hard for victory in the guvs and senate races a hug :)

[Born Free]

20. " I think we're done here. "

PADEMJES12 :

Thanks...

[demodonkey]

21. The elected PA Governor also appoints the Secretary of the Commonwealth, our chief Elections Officer

HEADS UP.

This has HUGE implications for how PA elections are handled.

[Born Free]

22. Good HEADS UP

demodonkey,

It is a good heads up but I am sure many can remember the time when the first George Bush had such a lead no one thought Bill Clinton had a chance, and more recently when all the talking heads said the democratic primary would be over quickly with Hilliary Clinton being the victor. A lot can and will happen and as the lesser known candidates get their message out to more of the people things will change. It's a bit asinine to believe the current polls are an accurate indication who will win next election - although I am sure many republicans are hoping democrats will accept the current polls as the true prophecy and give up.

[philly_bob]

23. Memory: Once I called Santorum's office to register my opinion ...

on one matter or another, and the staffer said "Let me connect you with someone who can help you" -- and connected me with Ted Kennedy's office.

[Born Free]

24. That is an amazing story about Santorums office

philly_bob,

Santorum's office always sent me nice looking official letters through the USPS with generally the same theme, (paraphrase, my interpretation ) they politely told me to get screwed because my opinion did not matter. However, I can't say I ever suggested I agreed with Santorum's actions. During that same period I very seldom if ever got replies from Spector. It was ironic as Spector was always a better senator than Santorum but did not respond to email requests. These days Spector's office is much better at responding to electronic communications.

[demodonkey]

26. That was their attitude...

If not a conservative member of their base, people contacting Santorum's office often got snarked. You actually got one of the nicer responses.

I can imagine a Toomey office being similar.

[angryfirelord]

25. I'm still undecided at this point

But the way things are going, I'm leaning towards Specter. The last thing I want is another Santorum as our Senator and the Club for Decay President Pat Toomey seems to be riding in the same boat. Remember what Santorum wanted to do with the National Weather Service?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_Duties_Act_of_2005

Yeah, I really don't want to let that happen. Toomey's platform seems to be another Republican axeman who wants to cut funding for everything.