PA should pass a law to protect older drivers & protect us from older drivers.

[Divernan]

Two stories in the PG today re very old (ages 88 & 92) people in serious auto accidents. An 88 year old woman drove her car into her own home hard enough to kill herself. She probably hit the accelerator instead of the brakes.

"A Shaler woman who drove her car into the wall of her house Saturday afternoon died as a result of blunt force trauma to the trunk, according to the Allegheny County medical examiner.

Joan Spelic, 88, of Etna, died at about 1:45 p.m. at UPMC St. Margaret. She had driven her vehicle into her home on Highland Avenue in Shaler."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11198/1161104-100.stm#ixzz1SOv78BE9

The second story was about a 92 year old man who was driving his car, turning onto another road "without proper clearance" at 10:42 p.m at night and hit a motorcyclist. What on earth was a 92 year old man doing on the road at 10:30 at night?

Sunday, July 17, 2011
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
A 92-year-old Butler man was cited in connection with a traffic accident Saturday that left another Butler man with serious injuries. State police at Butler said Frank Sherman drove his car from Patterson Road onto Saxonburg Road in Jefferson without "proper clearance." His car collided with a motorcycle operated by Gary Joseph Codispot, 52. Mr. Codispot was flown by medical helicopter to a Pittsburgh hospital. The accident happened at 10:42 p.m. Saturday.
First published on July 17, 2011 at 2:41 pm

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11198/1161106-100.stm#ixzz1SOuzezdN

Pennsylvania has the highest number of seniors in the country, next to Florida. We have lots of hilly, winding roads in both our towns and the countryside. We have icy roads in cold weather. We sometimes have torrential downpours. We have ever less public transportation, so the only way many seniors can stay in their homes/neighborhoods is usually to keep driving themselves - to get groceries, go to church, go to the library,etc. State legislators have long been receiving requests from constituents to pass a law to get their elderly relatives & neighbors off the roads, but the legislators fear being targeted by AARP or the like.

I have dear friends now 87 and 90. The older, the husband has long been too weak and uncoordinated to drive. His wife prided herself on her driving. She drove a jeep in London during WW II, and whenever anyone gently suggested she stop driving, she would trot out that fact. However, about 3 years ago, she developed macular degeneration in both eyes - she was permanently and legally blind. At present, a treating physician can notify the state that someone does not have the physical and/or mental capacity to drive, but the doctors back away from taking that action as well. She kept driving their big old boat of a car. Her husband would tell her when to speed up, when to slow down, when to turn. Her eye doctor should have automatically reported any patient with that degree of permanent vision loss to the state licensing bureau. But he didn't.

I spoke with her about the fact that she was a danger not only to herself & her husband but to the neighborhood children and anyone else on the road or in the parking lot at the grocery store, etc. I pointed out that if she caused an accident, she could be sued and they would lose their house, their savings, etc. She would then promise me she wasn't driving anymore. But I'd drive by their house (they lived down the street from me) and see that the car was not parked in front. I started calling them several times a week to see if they needed anything at the store, or if I could drive them anywhere. But she was still driving - it was her need for independence I guess. I called her out of town adult kids and told them of the situation. Their response: "Well, we tell her to quit driving, and she tells us she's not driving, so what else can we do?" I said, come for a visit and get rid of the car. And make arrangements necessary for alternate transportation to get them to church, the grocery store & medical appointments. At least we do have an Access van service for transporting seniors in our county. I was at the point of calling her doctor and threatening to make a complaint to the Medical Licensing Board. Fortunately, her car did not pass the annual state safety inspection - the whole bottom was rusted out. At that point, the adult kids got together and convinced the parents to move in with one of the daughters in another state.

My Mom was always a great driver. I visited her once a week, but I would always do the driving, so hadn't actually observed her driving for years. When she was in her 80's, an old friend/neighbor of hers called me to tell me that other neighbors (with small children) had seen her run a stop sign, more than once, around the block from her house. The young neighbors called the older neighbor and asked him to get in touch with me. If I didn't get her off the road, they were calling the police. He was uncomfortable doing so, but I thanked him, and I forced my Mom to agree to sell the car. She loved driving and she was stubborn, but she loved me enough and still had enough common sense to admit she wasn't driving safely. She was very unhappy about it and right up until her death at age 94, she kept asking me when her car would be back from the garage. It's hell growing old, and it's hell watching those you love grow old.

Every time I'm at the local supermarket, I see seniors who need walkers or canes, and/or who need help to open the trunk to put groceries in. They drive down the middle of two lanes. They drive 10 mph in 30 mph zones. They clearly lack the coordination to react quickly. They probably lack depth perception. If anything unusual happens, like there's a flagman and road construction, or detour signs, they can panic and slam on the brakes. They are a danger to themselves and others.

What should be done? I think the state should require vision tests, road tests & written tests every two years after a set age - perhaps 70? Right now, there are no age limitations. You just have to renew your license and get an up to date photo every couple of years. No testing of any kind. I believe we have limited licenses in the state - daytime driving only. Those should be more widely utilized. I think that if someone becomes permanently disabled in a way that will keep them from passing a driving test - such as vision loss, that the doctors must not only be allowed to, but be required to notify the state licensing agency.

What do you all think?

[demodonkey]

1. If the corporatists have their way, I'll need to be working when I am 90 just to survive.

I live in a semi-rural area with extremely limited public transportation. Have any suggestions as to how the future 90 year-old me can get to work? I imagine I will be one of millions with this problem.

FYI, my uncle drove, and drove very well until his death in his mid-nineties. I rode with him many times and felt far safer with him at the wheel than I did with many if not most much younger drivers.

On edit: My mother was an equally good driver until she had a disabling stroke at age 87. The only accident she was involved in as a "senior driver" was in her mid-80s when a distracted yuppie mother in a large SUV rear ended her while she was stopped at a red light. The yuppie admitted she was turned completely around in the driver's seat and was reaching into the rear seat, breaking up a fight between a couple of her yuppie children. I believe a spilling sippycup was involved.

Feeling the impact pushing her from behind, my mother (again, in her mid-80s at the time) reacted by slamming on her brakes quickly enough and hard enough that she actually lessened the damages that would have happened to the car sitting in from of her.

[Divernan]

2. Obviously many people need to drive as long as they safely can.

And obviously people age at different rates. I did refer to the limited public transportation in the state.

I suggested provisions for passing driving tests, and perhaps limiting driving to daylight hours.

What do you specifically think about my suggestions re doctors reporting visually impaired drivers to the state, or people having to retake vision, road and written tests after a certain age?

Here's a link to what other states have done: I provide the link, because the columns aren't aligned in my copy & paste
http://www.iihs.org/laws/olderdrivers.aspx
Vehicle ratings | News | Consumer brochures & videos | Research & stats | Laws & regs | Status Report newsletter
Older drivers: licensing renewal provisions

April 2011

Initial licensing procedures vary substantially in the United States. Renewal procedures, however, are not as varied. Generally, an applicant's driving record is checked to ensure there are no suspensions or revocations and, if not, the person pays a renewal fee and gets a new license. In addition, most states require renewal applicants to appear in person and to pass a vision test.

There are, however, two aspects of license renewal that vary significantly: the length of time between renewals and additional requirements that may be imposed on older drivers. Such requirements exist in 28 states and the District of Columbia.

Renewal procedures for drivers older than a specified age — typically 65 or 70 — include accelerated renewal cycles that provide for shorter periods between renewals, a requirement to renew in person rather than electronically or by mail where remote renewal is permitted, and testing that is not routinely required of younger drivers (vision and road tests, for example).

If a person's continued fitness to drive is in doubt because of the person's appearance or demeanor at renewal, a history of crashes or violations, or reports by physicians, police, or others, state licensing agencies may require renewal applicants to undergo physical or mental examinations or retake the standard licensing tests (vision, written, and road). States typically have medical review boards composed of health care professionals who advise on licensing standards and on individual cases in which a person's ability to drive safely is in doubt.

After reviewing a person's fitness to drive, the licensing agency may allow the person to retain the license, refuse to renew the license, or suspend, revoke, or restrict the license. Typical restrictions prohibit nighttime driving, require the vehicle to have additional mirrors, or limit driving to specified places or a limited radius from the driver's home. Where the renewal cycle is not shorter for older drivers, licensing agencies have the authority to shorten the renewal cycle for individual license holders if their condition warrants.

The following table provides the periods for which licenses can be renewed in each state and the District of Columbia, any accelerated renewal periods for older drivers, and other provisions applicable to older drivers.

Special provisions for older drivers
State Length of regular renewal cycle Accelerated renewal Other provisions
Alabama 4 years none none
Alaska 5 years none mail renewal not available to people 69 and older and to people whose prior renewal was by mail
Arizona until age 651 5 years for people 65 and older people 70 and older may not renew by mail1
Arkansas 4 years none none
California 5 years none at age 70, mail renewal is prohibited; no more than two sequential mail renewals are permitted, regardless of age
Colorado 10 years 5 years for people 61 and older people 66 and older cannot renew electronically, but they can renew by mail if a licensed physician or optometrist certifies that they passed a vision exam given within the prior six months; no one may renew by mail or electronically whose prior renewal was by mail or electronic
Connecticut 4 years or 6 years none that are safety related2 none that are safety related2
Delaware 8 years (effective 12/11/11) none none
District of Columbia 5 years none at age 70, or nearest renewal date thereafter, a vision test is required and a reaction test may be required; applicant must provide a statement from a practicing physician certifying the applicant to be physically and mentally competent to drive3
Florida 8 years 6 years for people 80 and older renewal applicants 80 and older must pass a vision test administered at any driver's license office or if applying by mail or electronically must pass a vision test administered by a licensed physician or optometrist4
Georgia 5 or 10 years, at the option of the driver; veterans’ licenses are valid until age 65 5 years for people 60 and older vision test for people 64 and older
Hawaii 8 years 2 years for people 72 and older none
Idaho 4 years drivers ages 21-62 have the choice of a 4- or 8-year license; drivers 63 and older will receive a 4-year license none
Illinois 4 years 2 years for drivers ages 81-86; 1 year for drivers 87 and older renewal applicants 75 and older must take a road test
Indiana 6 years 3 years for drivers 75 through 84; 2 years for drivers 85 and older mail or electronic renewal not available to people 70 and older and to people whose prior renewal was electronic or by mail
Iowa 5 years 2 years for drivers 70 and older none
Kansas 6 years 4 years for drivers 65 and older none
Kentucky 4 years none none
Louisiana 4 years none mail renewal not available to people 70 and older and to people whose prior renewal was by mail
Maine 6 years 4 years for drivers 65 and older vision test required at first renewal after driver's 40th birthday and at every second renewal until age 62; thereafter, at every renewal
Maryland 5 years none vision test required at age 40 and older at every renewal5
Massachusetts 5 years none renewal applicants 75 and older must apply in person
Michigan 4 years none none
Minnesota 4 years none none that are safety related6
Mississippi 4 or 8 years, at the option of the driver (effective 10/01/11) none none
Missouri 6 years 3 years for drivers 70 and older and 21 and younger none
Montana 8 years, 4 years if by mail, or on 75th birthday, whichever occurs first7 4 years for drivers 75 and older none that are safety related7
Nebraska 5 years none people 72 and older may not renew electronically (effective 08/26/11)
Nevada 4 years none none that are safety related8
New Hampshire 5 years none none
New Jersey 4 years none none
New Mexico 4 or 8 years at the option of the driver <67: 4 or 8 years at driver's option; 67+: 4 years or age 75, whichever occurs first; annually for drivers age 75 and older none
New York 8 years none none
North Carolina 8 years 5 years for drivers 66 and older none that are safety related9
North Dakota 6 years (effective 08/01/11) 4 years for people 78 and older (effective 08/01/11) none
Ohio 4 years none none
Oklahoma 4 years none none that are safety related10
Oregon 8 years none vision screening is required every 8 years for drivers 50 and older
Pennsylvania 4 years none none
Rhode Island 5 years 2 years for drivers 75 and older none
South Carolina 10 years11 5 years for drivers 65 and older vision test required for people 65 and older
South Dakota 5 years none none
Tennessee 5 years none none that are safety related12
Texas 6 years 2 years for drivers 85 and older mail or electronic renewal not available to people 79 and older
Utah 5 years none vision test required for people 65 and older
Vermont 4 years none none
Virginia 8 years none vision test required for people 80 and older
Washington 5 years none none
West Virginia 5 years none none
Wisconsin 8 years none none
Wyoming 4 years none none

1In Arizona, the license is valid until age 65. Any person 65 years and older who is renewing by mail must submit a vision test verification form, provided by the department, or verification of an examination of the applicant's eyesight. The vision test or examination must be conducted not more than 3 months before.

2In Connecticut, people 65 and older may choose a 2-year or 6-year renewal cycle. A personal appearance at renewal generally is required. Upon a showing of hardship, people 65 and older may renew by mail.

3The District of Columbia specifically states that an applicant shall not be required to retake the written or road test based solely on advanced age.

4Florida allows only two successive renewals may be made electronically or by mail, regardless of age.

5Some states' licensing laws specifically prohibit licensing administrators from treating people differently solely by virtue of advanced age. Maryland law specifies that age alone is not grounds for reexamination of drivers; applicants for an initial license age 70 and older must provide proof of previous satisfactory operation of a vehicle or physician's certificate of fitness.

6Some states' licensing laws specifically prohibit licensing administrators from treating people differently solely by virtue of advanced age. Minnesota law specifies that age alone is not a justification for reexamination.

7Montana allows only two successive renewals may be made electronically or by mail, regardless of age.

8Some states' licensing laws specifically prohibit licensing administrators from treating people differently solely by virtue of advanced age. Nevada law specifies that age alone is not a justification for reexamination. In Nevada, applicants for mail renewal age 70 and older must include a medical report.

9In North Carolina, people 60 and older are not required to parallel park in the road test.

10In Oklahoma, the license fee is reduced for drivers 62-64 and is waived for drivers 65 and older.

11Beginning 10/01/08, every licensee will be required to submit to a vision test every 5 years.

12In Tennessee, fees are reduced for drivers 60 and older and licenses issued to people 65 and older do not expire.

[grntuscarora]

3. I dislike the idea

of subjecting older drivers to the humiliation of special testing. My 84 year old mother, still a great driver and sharp as a tack, has voluntarily given up driving after dark. Some of her friends won't drive on certain of the busier highways and have adapted their routes to get to the stores and doctors' offices. Like them, I'd bet the majority of older drivers are aware when they're slipping, and they voluntarily adjust their driving or quit altogether. What I'd like to see is better van service in rural communities so they have a good alternative when they finally can't drive at all.

Truthfully, I'm much more concerned with the younger drivers, many of whom drive like bats out of hell on the country roads in my area. When it comes to dangerous driving, I've not seen an elderly driver that can compare to them.

[blue neen]

4. You've made some excellent points.

Many seniors are also on medications that should not be taken while driving. The older we get, the more likely we will be on some type of medicine. I've witnessed many elderly get in their vehicles with their oxygen machines running full blast.

IMHO, anyone who has a license (not just seniors) should have to be retested periodically. In the case of us older citizens, it would probably a good idea to start retesting at 65, then retest every 4 years.

It's a tough call, really very sad at times. I can understand how many seniors don't want to give up their licenses, because it takes away their independence.

Yesterday I picked up an elderly gentleman who was hitchhiking on a back road. I went to school with his sons, so he recognized me...he was trying to walk to his friend's house which was about two miles away. I cringe at the thought of what could happen to him...

[femmocrat]

5. I oppose such a law.

Many people are still working at age 70, out of necessity. I also live in a rural area where there is no public transportation.

Instead, I support raising the driving age to age 18 or having a high school diploma, which ever comes first. There are way too many teenage drivers involved in fatal accidents, too. That would also help to cut the drop-out rate!

And while we are at it, making penalties tougher for drunk driving would probably have a lot of support.

[demodonkey]

7. I agree. Am very opposed to ageist laws.

Assuming I make it to old age given the stress I have right now, when I am old I will have even greater problems including not enough money to live on (unless something changes drastically, or I find work I can do to survive.) I don't think I will need the added hassle of being singled out for all these tests every couple of years just because I have reached a certain birthday.

Our elderly population has enough problems without having to re-learn the entire drivers test book such as how many feet you're allowed to park away from a fire hydrant. It really does not sit well with me that, had she not had the stroke and stopped driving, someone would expect my mother would to do this -- while the young yuppie fool who while driving a moving vehicle was turned around to play with her spoiled screaming kid's sippycup, and rear-ended my mother, would not.

This is anecdotal, but most of the people I see mis-parking, running stop signs and lights, shooting into traffic, etc. are aggressive, self-entitled younger adults.

Perhaps there should be an eye test & physical requirement for EVERYONE every so many years. And maybe a full retest if you cause an accident, like the sippycup woman.

[blue neen]

11. IMHO, it's not ageist. It would be for their own protection as well as everyone else's.

There are certain things that happen with age, whether we like to recognize them or not. Reflexes slow, vision and hearing diminish, medications increase.

My dear friends lost their 26 year old son last fall. He was on his motorcycle when a 72 year old woman made a left turn in front of him...she said she never saw him. The young man did not stand a chance. My friends' lives will never be the same, nor will the older woman's life ever be the same.

You were fortunate that your mother was healthy and able to drive well for so long. That is not always the case, and many of the people who are the most dangerous on the roads are the ones most resistant to giving up their licenses. My grandma was one of them. My uncle had to finally take the car and sell it.

I definitely agree with your idea that there should be eye tests and physical requirements for everyone. It might help to keep some impaired drivers of all ages off the roads.

[demodonkey]

12. IMO anything that places a burden on the elderly that is not placed on everyone is ageist.

What do you suggest doing with these young self-centered jackasses that cause the bulk of deadly accidents?

I can't even get my mail at certain times of the day because these nutballs are careening down my road like they are out of their minds. My neighbor's mailbox was taken out five times in the last year. These people fly off the road, hit something, and keep on going. Whenever one or two did get their car disabled, it is invariably has been a young adult driver who was hurrying to get somewhere.

Again, to be fair a law has to apply to everyone of all ages. So test everyone every so many years.

On edit: I am sorry to say this, and sorry for your friends' loss, but maybe the son possibly had something to do with the accident too. Circumstances COULD really have been that his motorcycle was hard to see. Not all who ride motorcycles are aware that they just don't have the visibility of other vehicles. They are small and tend to blend into the road and into other vehicles. Again, it is hard for any driver to see them under some circumstances. Maybe this wasn't your friends' son, but I have noticed motorcycles shooting out from behind bushes, failing to use headlights & turn signals, etc. And some even have a tendency to ride in the blind spot on a car's right side. Many people drive motorcycles without the proper license; a car license is not enough, there is a motorcycle test required but many who drive motorcycles do not take the extra training and test according to a law enforcement officer I know. So some cyclists (motor and bicycle) are an accident waiting to happen, and it is not always the fault of the car who hits them.

[blue neen]

14. I feel that protecting the elderly from putting themselves in dangerous situations

should not be considered a burden. It is just the right thing to do.

I do see some very aggressive young drivers out there. The tailgaters are the ones that are the most obnoxious. If someone in front of you is going slowly, then you in turn have to go slow. Then someone decides to tailgate you, as if you can do anything about the slow cars in front of you! I guess they expect us to turn into Inspector Gadget and just fly over the other cars!

Our friends' son was not at fault in this accident. The woman turned in front of him, coming from the opposite lane of traffic. I do know what you mean about some motorcycle riders, though. My husband and I just returned from a vacation. Some of the motorcycle driving we saw on the turnpike was very risky.

[demodonkey]

17. Well, I feel that everyone needs the same protection, the elderly should not be singled out.

The aggressive young drivers need protection from the dangerous situations they create, too. As do the rest of us, from them.

[happyslug]

19. Thus the better solution is a Driving Test every five years, instead of just paying a fee.

I have dealt with people who, much younger then 60, who for various reasons should NOT drive. The problem is how do you get such a person off the street if he or she never goes to the Doctor? Until they are in an Accident that is severe enough to require legal action (other then a lawsuit over damages) you have NOTHING on record that shows they are UNFIT to drive. A quick vision exam and a re-action test could be done, and if the person fails, they can be required to get a vision or physical examination within 30 days or their license will not be renewed.

This two step process, if you fail the vision test is not new, it is quite old. When I, myself and my Brothers and Sisters went for our first driver's test (The 1960s into the 1970s) we all failed the Vision test and had to see an eye Doctor who would do an eye examination. The Eye Doctor, after the eye examination, would fill out the needed paperwork that our eyes did meet the State minimal requirements (if this required new eye glasses he had them ordered). Thus such a vision and/or medical exam upon failing the test done at the driver's bureau is very old, just add a test as to re-action and permit people who fail either test to over come that rejection by getting a proper medical or vision test.

If this would be required once every five years, you avoid the whole issue of ageism, but also catch those people who for various reasons NO longer meet the minimal requirements as to Vision or reaction times. It is a better over all solution, but not that much of a change since we have to go to Penndot and get our picture taken upon renewal (O, the good old days of paper licenses, just send in the check and your new license would be sent to you, no visit to Penndot needed). It is the solution adopted in many states for it catches those people who should NOT be driving no matter their age.

[Divernan]

20. That sound like a reasonable solution.

[blue neen]

6. Just in case anyone needs the info, PA has some transportation services for seniors:

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=616414&mode=2

[Township75]

8. Have everyone retested every 10 years or so.

Increasingly I see old people that SUCK at driving. They want to take their morning drives during rush hour and drive 15 mph below that of traffic in the center or left lane. For some reason when people retire, they retire their brains, becasue I am sure when they were working they knew better.

But it isn't just the old that need rested. The young need to be retested for being wreckless and the middle agers need to be retested for being distracted by coffee and cell phones.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

9. Centre county and Huntingdon county each had a driver (senior) killed after pulling into the path

of another vehicle this weekend.

It's a tough call. I see so many drivers of all ages who shouldn't have a license that it's hard to say at what age periodic testing should start. I will say though that I wish all drivers had the common sense to hand over their keys when they should.

My Mom realized when her driving skills had diminished and gave up her keys before she caused an accident. We have a neighbor (85 - 90) who has no business at all being behind the wheel. The police tried to take her license last year after an incident, but a Dr. said that she was fine to drive and she's still at it. All that she did was answer a question and she was cleared to drive. Who is the President? That was all that she had to answer.

I would say that any testing should be conducted as an actual road test and possibly a few basic manual questions.

One disclaimer: besides having the driver from hell living next door, I just got home after a 20 mile drive. This was one of those days when I kept gettng behind senior drivers doing maybe 10 - 15 MPH under the limit.

[romana]

10. Returning to driving again

It's an interesting topic, for sure. I recently moved to PA and have to go through the process of getting another driver's license. I had one years ago, when I lived in upstate New York, but then I lived in New York City for 20 years and it was just easier to not have a car. I let my license lapse years ago.

In order to get a new license, the first thing I did was visit the eye doctor for a thorough eye exam, new glasses, and a long discussion about whether I was a fit driver (I am also blind in one eye). He felt it was safe, though he understood my concerns, so he checked my eyes very thoroughly and followed up on the new glasses pretty carefully as well. I was fully prepared, had he said my vision was not good enough, to simply live the rest of my life relying on public transport and living in a place where I could get to work and do errands on the bus. I wouldn't have been happy, but I would've figured it out.

In the meantime, I got my permit and have spent the summer in driving school. It's come back pretty quickly, though I doubt I will ever be entirely comfortable with highway driving. But there are ways around that, and I fully intend to investigate alternative routes. In the meantime, I am the most defensive driver there can be--I am constantly on the lookout for potential accidents, and am very aware of my own weaknesses as a driver.

Interestingly enough, while in driving school, I began to realize what truly terrible drivers most people are. Seriously, people don't seem to pay attention to what they're doing half the time. It's appalling. And this isn't limited to older drivers--younger drivers are equally bad, if not worse.

Anyway, I wrote all this to tell you I think people of all ages should be more aware of their own strengths and weaknesses as a driver, as well as more aware in general when they are out on the roads. I also support having to have your eyes and general knowledge retested every time you renew your license, even though it's inconvenient.

I take the road test next week, btw. Wish me luck! :)

[Altoid_Cyclist]

13. Good luck with the test!

I sort of have the same thing going on with my vision as you. I have 20/20 vision with glasses on. However, I have problems with my eyes because of a brain and spinal cord injury that arose from a bicycle (me) versus an automobile accident. The car (of course) won. Ironically enough, it was a 77 year old man who didn't see me.

I'm not sure what would happen if I had to take a vision test. I have some double vision issues as well as my eyes not being able to focus properly which causes me to have almost no depth perception. I don't think that I would do very well if I had to parallel park, but since I never have to do that anyway.... My Optometrist said that it's not a problem since I've adapted to it over the years.

The sad part is that in this area, way too many fatal accidents are the result of kids rushing to high school or college activities. It's usually just a one car wreck. We did have one a few years ago where a kid rushing to school killed himself and another couple after hitting them head-on.

The TV stations and the newspapers treated the kid like he was a hero and went on and on about what a shame it was for him and his family. They gave the other couple (who did nothing wrong) a brief mention in the last sentence as if their lives meant nothing. After a week of this, the couple's family members finally were granted an interview so that they could express the fact that they lost two family members and that their lives meant a lot to them also.

My Dad always said that too many people consider their license to drive a birth right and not a responsibility to use it with caution each time that you get behind the wheel.

[grntuscarora]

16. Best of luck, romana! n/t

[grntuscarora]

15. Talk about slow moving traffic...

I live in Amish farm country, and their buggies are the real definition of slow-moving traffic! 25 years of dealing with Amish buggies (and all sorts of farm equipment) has given me a lot of patience with slow drivers:)

[Altoid_Cyclist]

18. We have the same problem around here too.

There is one particular road that has a lot of Amish traveling on it. The road climbs up a mountain for 13 miles and is real narrow and twisty for the majority of it. The curves are blind and I'm always holding my breath hoping that there isn't a buggy that I can't see until it's too late.

I used to ride my bike to work and take this road home since the downhill into Altoona was such a blast after a lousy day at work. I never realized how slow the buggies move until I decided to draft one for a while one day. I was surprised how much faster my bike was. Around here, you really have to pay attention so that you don't hit a buggy or what the horses leave behind. The roads are paved with something a little more common and a whole lot smellier than gold.