Vote NO on 8212

[upi402]

http://vote.wa.gov/Elections/Measure2007.aspx?a=8212&c=6

We believe offenders should not just sit idle while they serve their time in state prison. They should work to reduce their burden on taxpayers by paying room and board, crime victim’s compensation, court costs and any child support they might owe. One sure way to accomplish this is to allow private, for-profit or nonprofit businesses to employ offenders in our prisons, without putting the public’s safety at risk.
Offenders working promotes safety both inside and outside our prisons. It keeps them busy while incarcerated. Work permitted under this constitutional amendment has been scientifically shown to reduce recidivism of offenders who are released. This will not only save taxpayers money but it will prevent future victimization. Reducing recidivism is at the heart of the bipartisan Offender Reentry Initiative signed into law this year.
The work allowed by this constitutional amendment had been available in our prisons, providing these benefits, for more than 20 years. In fact, in 2004, when legislation reauthorized and set new goals for Class I work, both business and labor agreed to noncompetition provisions in legislation, which the Legislature then enacted unanimously. But a technical Supreme Court ruling eliminated the work in 2004. This is why we are bringing this constitutional amendment to the public, to restore the benefits to the citizens of Washington this work can provide.
For more information, call [phone].
Rebuttal of Statement Against In addition to punishment, the most important purpose of our criminal justice system is to provide justice for victims. If SJR 8212 fails, victims will have to wait much longer, even decades, before receiving just compensation.
SJR 8212 requires that state law prevent unfair competition. Current law, enacted unanimously in 2004, already prohibits unfair competition, defines what unfair competition is and outlines detailed requirements that must be followed before any work will be approved. Voters Pamphlet Argument Prepared by: JIM HARGROVE, State Senator, 24th Legislative District; MIKE CARRELL, State Senator, 28th Legislative District; AL O’BRIEN, State Representative, 1st Legislative District; JERALITA "JERI" COSTA, former Washington State Senator; DONALD G. PIERCE, Executive Director, Washington Association, Sheriffs and Police Chiefs. Statement Against Senate Joint Resolution 8212
JUSTICE SYSTEM IS IN PLACE TO DISPENSE PUNISHMENT
The criminal justice system is in place to dispense justice and punishment for crimes committed against society. While education and job training can prepare felons for a successful return to the community, it should not be to the detriment of law-abiding citizens competing for jobs or local businesses competing in the marketplace.
SJR 8212 TAKES JOBS FROM PRIVATE WORKERS
Proposed positions for inmates incarcerated in state correctional facilities are highly desired labor positions. These jobs should go to private workers outside prison walls who choose to live according to the rules.

NO ASSURANCE PRIVATE WORKERS WON’T BE NEGATIVELY IMPACTED
There are no guarantees SJR 8212 won’t create unfair competition for Washington jobs and businesses. This is why unfair inmate labor was prohibited in the Constitution in the first place. SJR 8212 is a clear attempt to undo these constitutional protections for the workers and businesses of this state.
Government should create additional job opportunities for all Washingtonians, not focus a disproportionate share of its efforts on the inmate labor force.
SJR 8212 merely states that inmate labor programs may not unfairly compete with Washington businesses. It doesn’t indicate how it will accomplish this goal. Without specific language in place outlining a clear plan, local businesses will be impacted by inmate work programs and law-abiding citizens seeking employment will be displaced by inmate laborers.

SJR 8212 IS UNNECESSARY
Preparing felons to return to the community with job skills can be accomplished through existing vocational training and educational programs that provide inmates future employment opportunities while not unfairly competing with local businesses, wrongfully displacing local workers, and negatively impacting local economies.
Rebuttal of Statement For Offenders shouldn’t sit idle in prison. However, taking jobs from law-abiding citizens isn’t the answer. Supporters of SJR 8212 say work inside prison reduces recidivism. But are recidivism rates lowered enough to amend our Constitution? There is no answer to this question. Government should never compete with business. SJR 8212 takes jobs from private workers and gives them to prisoners without any mechanism to monitor whether local businesses and workers are negatively impacted.

[eridani]

1. See also--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=184x12830

[upi402]

2. Thanks, yes I read much of that

Racism IS rampant. And I'm also against what China does as it imprisons people for specious charges and uses their forced labor.
Then Wal Mart sells their illicit wage slave trinkets to American idiots.

Nobody wants victims to suffer twice or feel that justice is delayed, but why add to the group of victims by prison/slave labor taking jobs from the free sector?
(That's my thinking anyway)

[Kurovski]

3. I did.

It just plain creeps me out. Reminds me of "work camps", though I know it shouldn't, but in these these RW days , it does.

[LisaM]

4. It's so anti-union

This is really third world. I am definitely voting NO, but thanks for the link!

[NeoTheo]

7. And that has been what has kept this from happening

Having prisoners do more than punching license plates has been an on-going effort to have prisoners do meaningful work since at least the early 80's And Jack Echart in Florida demonstrated how it could improve the recidivism rate by actually improving the recidivism rate.

However, that was a different time and the effort was assuredly geared towards a social conscience. However, in today's political context, that being as the government and business become one entity, it is strictly about cutting cost. Which seeing how the entire US is already enslaved to the corporation it really isn't much of a change except maybe you won't be getting any of your good time as that would shorten you stay with the state.

[eridani]

11. Horesehit. They are prepared for jobs that increasingly exist only in prisons

A Texas electronics plant picked up its operation lock stock and barrel and moved it into the prison system. If the workers want their jobs back, they have to stick up a 7-11 or something.

[Matariki]

5. Sadly this looks like it's going to be approved.

It really is an initiative with TOO much room for abuse - à la Chinese prison labor.

One safeguard that should have been included would be charging companies the same rate they pay any employee. With a large portion of the income going to the crime victims fund, etc.

The whole prison industry thing scares me, from privatization of prisons to cheap prison labor for corporations. Not good. Not good at all.


Senate Joint Resolution 8212:

APPROVED NP 146989 62.58%

REJECTED NP 87904 37.42%

http://www.metrokc.gov/elections/200711/results.asp

[uppityperson]

6. As I told Jr, if it's too complicated to figure out wtf they are talking about,

vote no because it is too complicated to figure out what they are talking about. Means it is not a good bill/initiative/etc.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

8. It's not what you believe.

People struggle to obtain a education ,convicts don't have to,it's free for them.

Something about repeat offenders?

So it's jobs now?

What next, a house?

Just say no.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

9. Indeed pardon me

After reading all that I think I must consult with some prison guards to find out if I am wrong in my thinking. The real truth. I wouldn't know anything about the real truth in the streets. And it seems the criminals are victims all the way around. You would think there are no benefits in it at all for them.My goodness.

I think some of these same views were floating around in the sixties.
Yes in fact I recall debates about it in those years. Attica uprising in New York State seemed to raise public awareness in a much different direction though however. Think I'll go back there in a search, there is indeed very much data pro and con in every direction. Actually I am sure the whole ball of wax is completely covered. And it most likely hasn't really changed all that much ,not really.

Those New York State police became improsecutable by order of the the governor ,Nelson Rockefeller. You talk about all the cops are criminals, the Stones. They were able to use whatever force the individual on location deemed necessary.And they could not be prosecuted. But that's New York.However I do notice California's people will tend to flip flop opinions,beliefs dependent upon the crime rate. Murders drop and people tend to become more compassionate. Or can afford it.
Will it ever stop?

And criminal reform programs are not much different as far as the comparative results . Reform failures. Or system flaws,or all prisons are flawed and criminals are flawed ,no but society is flawed that's why criminals are flawed. You would almost think there is no such thing as a bad guy because it's all about a flawed system.

But than there is real life!

I just don't know that I can trust a sociological take on the whole ball of wax.

Although there is no doubt in my mind about the terrible flaws and the gross criminal profiteering in the criminal justice system as it is. And I don't know that England is doing much better really, from what I read.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

10. Prison training in the areas of preparing prison

inmates for the work force upon release in Washington state have failed terribly in the past. example, preparing inmates to start their own business in Washington state ,(with state funding grants to do so(. The convicts are released into society having been trained to start their own business ,provided with a grant ,funds to do it, a means to cloak their criminal past ,and a ticket into your front door. That program was a dismal failure and the crime rate went into sky rise as a result of it. Accountability was the key flaw. There was or is still not state fallow up,no system of monitoring the x convicts progress after release.


The gray areas were not merely gray ,but very dark. This was suppose to be a practical answer to processing the convicts back into society prepared to become responsible additions to the work force. That program helped the con's get into your home with the help of the state.
No applications to fill out ,just ,no back round checks , just ring the bell and off they went.
Until the whole convict program became state wide news all over the television.Apparently the scientific fact finding thing did not practically apply in real time. Or simply ,givin the opportunity,criminals will do crime. Fact over fact. The states version of don't ask, don't tell.
The insidiousness of the criminal mind. But the way it was viewed by the state, setting up convicts in business was going to reduce the chances of the x convict re offending ,there were even percentages to go by, real numbers. But those numbers were not true to life. Only on paper.



Accountability on how they will insure that prison labor doesn't change the work force as it is, is that gray or dark area as usual.It is a bill of goods that offers more trouble than any good that could ever come out of it. Accountability . Get it passed and than they will play it by ear.
'
I can only think of all those business people that wish the eighties would come back. They sure did love it when Ronni was president.
The state can offer cheap labor to cooperations that are looking for just the right place to set up shop.

That would be working on the con assembly line,a bit of a step up from the old chain gang.
But the revenue those new cooperations that are attracted to such a sweet deal will bring,just might be too good to pass up in some opinions. Is it really going to pass? I rather suspect it won't.