Fish Toss a GO. PETA scorned

[paulsby]

Source: KOMO TV

SEATTLE (AP) - Despite complaints from an animal-rights group, a national veterinary association says Seattle's famed fishmongers will be tossing dead fish at its Seattle convention next month.

American Veterinary Medical Association CEO Ron DeHaven said Friday his organization, based in Schaumburg, Ill., will proceed with a plan to host a team-building program offered by the famous fish-throwers of Seattle's Pike Place Fish Market.

After People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals raised concerns about the ethics of using dead fish as props at a veterinary event, DeHaven said the AVMA would explore other options for its July 11-14 annual convention.

DeHaven said in a telephone interview that his group supports the responsible use of animals for human purposes, such as food - and feels veterinarians are the best advocates for animals.

"We're talking about three fish," he said. "The tossing is simply used to facilitate bigger purposes" such as motivation and team-building, which are valuable for veterinarians.

The fish are dead and are consumed after the program. DeHaven said his organization thinks human consumption is an appropriate use of fish.

PETA spokeswoman Lindsay Rajt ("Right") responded that fish feel pain and fear when they're caught. She called the "corpse toss" morally no different than tossing dead kittens.



Read more: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/47967331.html

[Mojambo]

1. Gotta love PETA.

Those folks are always good for a damn fine laugh.

[Piewhacket]

18. Not really that amusing...

the organization has condoned and its
members have participated in criminal acts of violence.
This I oppose.

Although their basic advocacy for respect for
animals and advocacy of animal rights is laudable
and generally worthy, their extreme arguments and
extreme (and sometimes illegal) actions are neither persuasive
nor excusable. Its as though they care more about making
a screaming scene than being an effective advocate.

In short, were I a fish, I bloody well wouldn't
seek to have PETA as my advocate.

[ret5hd]

21. I suspect that if you were truly a fish...

with sufficient mental capacity to grasp the concept of an organization like PETA, you would gladly support them.

Just sayin'.

[Piewhacket]

35. Surely someone of your obvious intelligence...

should, with substantial remedial help, learn to
appreciate that acts of violence are uncivilized, illegal,
and ultimately ineffective, are only morally justified by grave necessity,
and that extreme conduct and speech inciting hatred and violence by others
is equally bankrupt.

Of course, I'm not saying I don't myself get up some mornings with
a mind to go provoke some dumb fuck into picking a fight with me so I can
kick the living fucking shit out of him and make it look like his fault, all
for fun and out of sheer meanness. No, I'm not saying that. Just most days
I'm not like that, unless ah been wriled up some. :)

Just sayin what I'm saying. PETA started as an activist organization which
quickly turned (through poor leadership) from advocacy to hate speech to
violence. I was around when they started. They destroyed their credibility
and have not sufficiently reversed course to rehabilitate themselves. Thus
more moderate animal rights folks have long declined to associate themselves
with PETA, and this has somewhat undermined their effectiveness.

I myself believe that we should be moderate, humane, and respectful of
all living things. We should be humane because we are human, and it demeans us to
be anything less. Yet there is also balance.

ETHICAL treatment implies ethics, that is the application of philosophical
and moral principles. So examine PETA "principles" which we have seen apparently
include hate speech and violence. How else do they argue their case?

Dead fish tossing is not the same as dead cat tossing, what idiot thinks they are?
Oh, PETA apparently. Dead fish tossing is the means used for 5000 years to
process fish for food, and it is a important and necessary skill of the fish merchant.
There is nothing inhumane or disrespectful about such activity. No comparable
statement can be made about cat tossing, whatever that is. Some arguments can be
made about specific circumstances, but PETA doesn't work that way, they apparently
must still confront and condemn with hyperbolic argument, not educate and persuade.
I do not align myself with PETA, or their tactics. PETA needs to change some.

Just sayin. Hey.

[kestrel91316]

22. PETA's vehement hatred of veterinarians and the veterinary profession

is widely known. They oppose ALL "exploitation" (aka USE) of animals, including pet ownership. Ingrid Newkirk head of PETA, has said that she hopes to see domestic animals eventually die out and cease to exist altogether, and of course that means the vets will presumably have to die out, too.

I wouldn't put it past PETA or their more violent friends to do something violent at the AVMA convention. Glad I am not going this year.

[superduperfarleft]

38. "Widely known?"

So fucking stupid....but of course, as always, it's always got to be about you.

[Ian David]

34. Agreed...

"Fuck-off, PeTA!"

[Turborama]

2. It's a shame they have to get distracted by incongruous crap like this and make fools of themselves

They could spend there time and money so much more wisely.

[uppityperson]

3. Good. k&r for good sense

[lindisfarne]

4. I never had a problem watching this at Pike Place Market, but to have veterinarians

throwing animals back and forth seems a little weird. Yeah, the fish are dead, but still ... What's the point of it (other than they happen to be in Seattle). At the market, they do it to get the fish to the wrapping area (and I'm sure it started out with small tosses and the guys started throwing them further and harder, then the tourists started watching), so at least there is some kind of purpose to it - it's not pointless. However, with the vets, it's for a "team building" exercise, where a koosh ball or football would have been as good.

This doesn't at all further the image of vets caring for animals. In fact, if I were a vet, I'd be worried about the image it does project = are they going to be throwing my dead pet around the office just because it's dead? This of course assumes the animal died unexpectedly - I'd be there if there was the expectation the pet was going to die or if euthanasia was necessary due to suffering that could not be alleviated. There are actually vets who treat fish. It's not something I'd go out and jump up and down about outside the convention center, but why the vets couldn't have come up with another approach to team building is a bit mystifying to me.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

19. Kind of like pediatricians telling "dead baby" jokes, isn't it?

No real harm is done, but it's pretty damned tasteless.

[kestrel91316]

25. So it's ok for fishmongers and chefs to toss dead food fish around,

but not veterinarians?

Jesus wept. What the hell else would you like to prohibit us from doing?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

32. Calm down...

I'm not saying it should be prohibited. And if pediatricians want to tell dead baby jokes, that's fine too.

But you have to admit that it's pretty crass to have members of a profession dedicated to healing animals collect as a group to play games with corpses of animals. I know, I know, it's food, not a patient; but didn't their moms tell them not to play with their food?

[zonkers]

40. Bad Form. Period. Yeah, doggie docs, IT IS your god given right to toss big dead fish

to each other, whoop di fucking doo. Doctors, is tossing fish so important that the need to do so outweighs honoring the sincere (and maybe "kooky" by some standards, not mine) wishes of many animal loving folks -- the same folks who take in strays, donate money foster pets, participate in wild bird counts, volunteer to clean up local habitats, etc. ??? These are good people. on edit: These people are the safety net for the planets creatures. Yeah, some are nutty. But they lead with their heart and defend the defenseless. I accept them.

Off topic, I drive by a bar every day that has turtle racing. I have never been there nor do I intend to go. It seems so cruel. I am surprised Peta has not gone after them.

[kestrel91316]

23. Your second paragraph is, frankly, one of the most disgusting things I have ever read.

This may come as a shock to you and your ignorant friends: veterinarians DO know the difference between pets and food.

".......are they going to be throwing my dead pet around the office just because it's dead?......."

You are insane.

[lindisfarne]

29. For some people, fish are pets. And the real issues is: What's the point of vets throwing

the fish around? Does one need to throw fish around for team building purposes? (This was the point I made in my first paragraph, in case you so fixated on the 2nd paragraph that you forgot it.)

Frankly, I would think twice about going to a vet who thought this was ok - it shows a lack of judgment. (or lack of taste, as was stated above).

[superduperfarleft]

37. You really are self-absorbed, aren't you?

I've never seen someone so adept at somehow making every single conversation turn into something about them. Even if it means biting someone's head off inappropriately.

[pnwmom]

41. self-delete

[Lagomorph]

5. Ever watch The Flying Karamazov Brothers?

They do a gag where one of them dares the audience to give him something he can't juggle. Fish and Ice Cream were always there, along with Jello.

[TommyO]

7. My brother gave them something that they had a tough time with

A disposable aluminum pie plate with metal washers taped towards one side of the pan, then filled with whipped cream. They had fun with that one, even with the modification they made, folding it in half like a taco, juggling it was impossible.

[ddiver]

6. PETA orded to toss off.

[tularetom]

8. I'm as much of an animal lover as anybody but this is ridiculous

PETA could not look any stupider than they do by complaining about this.

unfortunately, this is how they destroy their credibility and make themselves a joke.

[fishnfla]

9. PETA should organize a boycott of veterinarians nationwide!

wait, what?

[Buns_of_Fire]

10. Today, dead-fish-tossing -- tomorrow, cat juggling?

?

[The Stranger]

11. Why can't these pricks toss something else, even fake rubber fish?

Fucking assholes.

[kestrel91316]

26. You need to take that up with the Pike Place fishmongers and not

call us pricks and assholes.

Throwing uncooked food around is silly but not harmful to animals. Do you not understand that these are DEAD fish, caught and sold to EAT??

[The Stranger]

36. Either way, I'm still calling them pricks and an assoholes.

You think it is "silly," I think only a prick and/or an asshole would throw around a perfectly good fish, live or dead.

[stlsaxman]

12. "Fuck it- We'll do it live!!" Watch how it's really done on The Pike Place WebCam!

http://www.pikeplacefish.com/webcam.html

[Bandit]

13. There are legitimate reasons to complain about this but PETA's is not one of them

Commercial Fishermen are horrified by the handling of these fish. They try day in and day out to provide the very best quality product possible. They make sure their product is rapidly cooled to inhibit bacteria. They take extra care to make sure no scale loss or bruising to the meat. To throw around a salmon on a Commercial fishing boat is a cardinal sin and likely to cost one their job. It is difficult enough to compete with the growing fish farms around the world that feed their fish chemicals and allow them to stay penned up among their own body wastes. If people buy these fish that have been trashed about and bruised and had all the scales knocked off and are unhappy with the product it is the Commercial fishermen that suffer. It would be nice if every person in America could get out and catch their own salmon or halibut or whatever but they just don't have those resources so America depends upon the Commercial fishermant to provide them with a quality produst and then these yayhoos trash all that the fishermen work so hard to establish..

[LostinVA]

15. They don't sell the fish they toss, unless that's something new

[Bandit]

16. Oh yes they do indeed

I have been there many times and watched the entire operation.

[lindisfarne]

30. When a customer indicates what fish they want to buy, it gets thrown to the wrapping area

to be wrapped. So yes, they throw fish the customer is going to buy.

[fishnfla]

24. Fuck commercial fishermen

If they were really "horrified" by what happens to a dead fish they wouldn't kill it in the first place. Plus they aleady sold their catch, they could give 2 shits what happens next.

When they are not busy raping the seas and destroying marine habitat with bycatch, they fight tooth and nail any regulation which makes their industry safer or protects fish stocks.

For DECADES that crook Ted Stevens in AK fought regulation to make boats safer for the workers. Hundreds of fishermen died for the want of life saving gear, making commercial fishing a deadly industry to save a few bucks.

If they dont care about their crews why should they care about dead fish.

The irony is you are citing, or claiming to cite, commercial fishermen to prop up PETA. Full circle stupid.

[lindisfarne]

31. I've been around commercial fishermen and they themselves complain about the safety equpiment they

must have on board and the safety regulations they must follow. They think they have to spend a lot of money for no reasonable purpose (they're wrong, in my opinion, but the point is that they themselves are against many of the safety regulations).

And the person you replied to was not propping up PETA. The person stated the position that it is stupid to be throwing the fish. That is not propping up PETA.

[kestrel91316]

27. Yours is the ONLY legitimate argument against fish-tossing on this

entire thread so far. Thank you.

[jmowreader]

39. I can think of another argument against fish-tossing at the AVMA convention

Namely, the FISH Philosophy is pretty lame.

What they NEED to do is get Jerry Harvey to come up and do his Abilene Paradox presentation. If Jeff Foxworthy decided to become a management consultant, he'd sound a lot like Jerry Harvey.

[LostinVA]

14. I've watched the fish tossing in person -- the fish are long dead

The place also has THE BEST garlic and black pepper wood-smoked salmon.

[BeatleBoot]

17. Probably the funniest thing I've heard ever

And PETA wonders why people think they are on the fringe?

:crazy:

:rofl:


But a dead cat throw....now that is funny!!!

That's one for Mel Brooks!!


:spray:

[kestrel91316]

28. Well, no, it's not.

[depakid]

20. "human consumption is an appropriate use of fish."

So long as you mind the mercury....

:evilgrin:

[Ian David]

33. And now, the fish-slapping dance

Monty Python- Fish Slapping Dance!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCwLirQS2-o