State Rep (R) authors bill to deny illegal immigrants drivers license

[HereSince1628]

http://www.wpr.org

7:00 AM

Joy Cardin - 02/21B

Currently in Wisconsin, illegal immigrants are eligible for drivers licenses. After seven, Joy Cardin talks with a Republican state legislator who wants that to end.

Guest: Mark Gundrum, state representative (R), New Berlin. Authored a bill that would make drivers licenses for illegal immigrants illegal.

[alwynsw]

1. ...and the problem would be what?

(Still trying to get the link to load)

Based upon the information in your post, I can't say that I disagree.

The operative owrd is "illegal". Legal immigrants are another matter. There's a right way and a wrong way to do almost anything.

I'm anything but opposed to immigration. All of our ancestors immigrated - yes, all of them. Most immigrated to this country under what were legal methods at the time. The laws have changed since before my ancestors came here. Laws change. That's why we elect those people we call lawmakers.

I'm only sorry that the bill isn't at least co-sponsored by a Dem.

[sybylla]

2. The shit legislation that comes from this will punish legal immigrants

and will not stop illegal immigration nor prevent illegal immigrants from driving. Not to mention the fact that it will add to the budget at a time when we are trying to bring an end to deficit spending in this state.

It's just more expensive, do-nothing, fear-mongering legislation courtesy of the party of "values."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=186x5255
Here's more discussion and a link to an article on the legislation that was discussed.

You can also listen to that talk show if you'd like to brush up on what is actually taking place at http://www.wpr.org - though I'm doubtful that Joy Cardin and a puke guest would actually put much fact out there for the public to digest.

[alwynsw]

5. I haven't seen the proposed legislation, but

verification of legal status is almost a non-issue. It's done daily by reputable employers. That won't stop, and indeed may increase, the number of forged and altered documents "out there", but I see no reason for a sensible check in the form of birth certificate, passport, green card, etc. being presented at the time of application for a license.

The cost then becomes 30 second's time and a single photocopy attached to the application.

Still can't get the link to load properly, but I'm on dial-up. No BB or cable available and satellite is still too expensive.

[sybylla]

7. What? Do you think you can get a DL without identification?

Follow the links, alwynsw. Anyone getting a DL has to provide several forms of ID. We know exactly who these people are, legal immigrants or not. The issue is whether or not we should be giving DLs to immigrants who are here illegally.

I posted in the other discussion on this subject, examples of my experience with legal immigration and I'll make these points here again:

1. Why would someone who is here illegally and already breaking the law, bother getting a drivers license? Wouldn't most of them just drive anyway? And if they drive anyway, aren't we, as citizens, out money when our insurance has to pay for damage caused by an uninsured motorist? Wouldn't we be better able to track illegal immigrants if we let them have DL's?

2. This law (in WI) would cause the DL's to expire upon the expiration of the legal immigrant's current visa. I have friends who came here legally from Europe. Sometimes their visa's were only good for 90 days, sometimes 6 months, sometimes 2 years. Regardless, we currently issue DL's for 8 years. That much extra counter activity at the local DMV plus the extra expense for both the state and the immigrant merely to make sure a few bad eggs don't get to drive legitimately is ridiculous. Plus, this wouldn't have kept several of the WTC pilots from getting DL's, IIRC, as some of them were here legally. (this is the excuse Rep. Sensenbrenner-R uses for his legislation)

3. The US honors international DL's as well as DL's from many countries. What incentive is there for a legal or illegal immigrant to get a state issued DL if we make it too expensive and too difficult to manage? If they don't drive on a license issued by the state, the state can't track their bad behavior behind the wheel. In fact, I even used the example of my friend, who evaded a ticket or two by not speaking English and showing the cop his foreign DL(before he could get a WI DL). The cop, either not wanting to do the paperwork or thinking that this guy would just leave the country before he'd pay a fine let him go. Do we want that?


This bill is trying to put a cast on a scratch. It's the wrong medicine for something that isn't really much of a problem to start with. And it's more play from the repig's distraction playbook. They want you to be afraid, they want you to think there's a problem, they want you looking the other way because they don't want you to see that they are getting nothing done in this country.

[alwynsw]

8. Pardon me for stating the obvious

Golly, ID is required to get a DL. Whodathunkit! Think a bit. My thoughts leant toward simple verification of citizenship.

1. Insurance is a non-issue. It's required to be on the roadways. Tracking? Please. Check the visa records and such. That's a pipe dream.

The rest just isn't worth arguing.

[sybylla]

9. Insurance isn't required in Wisconsin to get a DL

The only consequence for not having insurance is a fine, if that. Been there, had to deal with that from someone who was a born and raised citizen.

Golly, I apologize for the tone of my previous post. But as far as verification of citizenship, those are the only documents an alien, legal or illegal, is likely to have (passport, foreign DL, birth certificate, other foreign ID). Which is why I asked the question - do you think they don't require ID? Immigrants who are here legally on a visa have no other identification to show. They get nothing from the INS in the form of a "legal alien" ID card until they go through the 3-8 year process of becoming permanent residents. With the exception of immigrants from Mexico and Canada, the immigrant's passport stamped with a current visa is all they have for acceptable ID.

Seems to me, since we don't get many terrorists of Canadian or Mexican origin, the existing requirements for getting a DL already address in large part Rep. Sensenbrenner's concern. Perhaps this bill is really more about punishing Mexicans.

As far as tracking visas, unless the INS has managed to get their act together in the past three years, they don't even have the ability in house to instantly track visas, let alone offer that to every DMV office across the country. So all we have to go on is the paperwork each person processes at the border/customs and carries with them. Which, interestingly enough, they will likely have to provide to get a DL in the first place. Starting to sound like a circle jerk?

The real question, as is always true with the divisive and distracting legislation the pukes offer, is whether or not there is a problem in the first place. Should someone who is here illegally be allowed to hold a state issued drivers license? Why not?

And the correllary asks if their proposed legislation is a true, cost effective and fitting solution rather than a half-assed measure that will burden state and local agencies with unfunded mandates, burden those who obey the law, yet result the impression that pukes have gotten something done.

But that's just not worth arguing.

[HereSince1628]

3. My point was to make sure other Wisconsin residents are aware

that this issue is in my/our legislature. That's why it is posted in Wisconsin.

All the arguments, pro and con, that played in California will play in Wisconsin.

As someone who lives in Wisconsin, I see it as worth knowing about. Getting informed about it is something to do, if one hasn't done that yet.

But, I suppose to folks with a conservative bent an informed public might be threatening.

[sybylla]

4. jinx!

Thanks for posting this. I shun Joy even when there's a Dem on. Can't stand the woman. I accidentally caught her fawning all over Scott Suder a week or two ago on a show so she is apparently up to the same old tricks.

I wasn't on DU all weekend or I might have tuned in just to see how the asshole is justifying this. Did you listen?

[alwynsw]

6. I hope you're not implying anything with your last sentence.

If so, you are mistaken.

Please see my previous posts on this matter.

Once again: the operative word is "legal". BTW, the U.S. is still one of the easiest countries to enter legally for almost any legal reason.

edited to add: My wife brought up an interesting point. Auto insurace is required virtually everywhere in the U.S. Every policy I've seen - I also called a friend who is a P&C agent to confirm - denies claims incurred while the driver is engaged in illegal activity. If one is in this country illegally, the very act of being here is the continuing commission of a crime. Therefore, the operation of a vehicle would be done during the commission of a crime.

I wonder how long it will take the insurance industry to pick up on this to deny claims. If and when they do, I'll wager that some understanding folk will become less so when involved in an accident involving an illegal immigrant ruled at fault.