Abolish Senate, McGuinty suggests

[CHIMO]

Toronto — Canada's Senate should be abolished because it doesn't adequately represent Ontario, the province's Premier said Thursday.

A day after Prime Minister Stephen Harper said he hopes that senators will have to run for office before the next general election, Premier Dalton McGuinty said he would prefer that the upper chamber is tossed out entirely.

Mr. McGuinty said Ontario currently has only 24 members in the 105-seat Senate — well below the number he believes it should have, based on the province's population.

“We're 40 per cent of the country by way of population and at least 40 per cent by way of contribution to the GDP, but we only have 22 per cent of the Senate seats,” Mr. McGuinty said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060302.wsenat0302/BNStory/National/home

What a novel idea. If it is now going to be elected, and at the same time as a general election, then the representatives are representing the people. Thus they can exert their authority over parliament and rule. Now why shouldn't those people be in proportion to the population.

Seems like the reform ideas were not thoroughly thought through as to the consequences.

[MrPrax]

1. McGuinty got it wrong...

As every school kid knows, the 'rep by pop.' doesn't necessarily MEAN rep. by province, or region or minority language block--

Any formula based on this will provide Ontario and everyone else with exactly the representation they are entitled.

The existing Senate breakdown is unfair to many provinces and should be re-thought.

But it is a sham debate for McGuinty UNLESS the Constitution is changed and I would LOVE to see the Upper House wholly elected by proportional representation.

That is partly why I am a bit confused by the NDP position; they favour PR, but want to abolish the Senate. (One of many things that make so little sense in the NDP these days)

HELLO! Think of it as a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup--two great tastes that taste great together.

[IntravenousDemilo]

2. If the provinces can get along just fine with a unicameral government,

why do we need to be bicameral federally? Aren't we just basically paying a bunch of people a lot of money to sit on their asses? Let's just get rid of the Canadian Senate; it's just a waste of taxes and time. About the only good thing I can say about it is that when governments want to give out political patronage appointments up here to Good Party Workers, the GPWs often end up in the Senate, where they wind up being pretty harmless and ineffectual on the whole, but in the States, they make them the head of FEMA or something important, and everything goes to hell. And if we got rid of patronage altogether, we wouldn't even need the Senate for that.

And I don't see how eliminating the Senate is inconsistent with electing the House of Commons through PR. Please point out the connection.

BTW, we could also save a lot of money and eliminating a lot of waste just through eliminating the provincial level of government and just leaving the federal and municipal levels.

[daleo]

4. The Senate sometimes does some good research

Committee work, that sort of thing. So it is not entirely useless, but I agree that it probably isn't good value for money.

I think abolishing it is as unlikely as reforming it, though.

[CHIMO]

3. If

Harper is going to empower the senate by having them elected by the populace, then McGuinty is going to want his province to get its just dues. He may not be able to stop it from being elected but he can claim it is not representative and therefore warrants his opposition and refusal on all items until it is corrected.

If Harper thinks that he is going to get his reform without having Quebec say boo, then he forgot about Ontario.

[daleo]

5. If I recall correctly, Senate reform was part of the Charlottetown accord

And that didn't get too far. Harper is wasting his time, but I suppose he has to throw his old Reform Party mates a bone.

[V. Kid]

6. Other provinces, especially BC and Alberta...

...get screwed a lot more than Ontario by the current Senate arrangement. Its ridiculous that BC has 4 million people and 6 Senators, whereas New Brunswick has .75 million people and 10 Senators. I'd agree that Harper's current reform ideas aren't well thought out. In fact if "elected Senators" get appointed after an election that will just entrench this ridiculous situation. Not to mention the fact that should a Senator be elected would they be elected until their 75 years old? Do they not have to face the voters ever again? Talk about elected dictatorship.