May I please ask Canadians for their health care experiences?

[Joe Bacon]

In another thread I posted a note about my sister sending out e-mails from her friends in Canada complaining about the care they were denied and had to come to the United States for. They want to adopt our health care "system".

May I please ask Canadians to post your experiences with your health care system? Are the allegations made by these people believable or not? Any help from you would be appreciated!

Thanks so much!

[Spazito]

1. The allegations are NOT believable at all...

There is NO denial of service as one's care is strictly between the patient and the Doctor. Over 80 percent of Canadians love our system of healthcare. We have a VERY small minority of repub lites aka members of CRAP (Conservative/Reform/Alliance Party) who want to privatize everything but they have no influence.

Here is my experience with the system in Canada:

I have had two children, born in the hospital, wonderful care, NO bill upon leaving the hospital. My daughter has three children, born in the hospital, great care, NO bill upon leaving. My son has two children, born in the hospital, one child was premature which necessitated the infant staying in hospital for two weeks, NO bill upon leaving.

I was in a car accident while visiting another Province, I was not injured bad enough to require an ambulance but did go to emergency to be checked out. I waited, at most, twenty minutes, before being taken to an examining room where I may have waited as long as five more minutes. The Doctor came, examined my cuts and bruises, was worried I had broken a key bone in my hand so had it x-rayed where he was still unable to see if the bone was broken (it is a very tiny bone but key to the functioning of the thumb) so, for a precaution, he put my hand in a cast and told me to see my own Doctor when I returned home.

I returned home three days later, made an appointment to see my doctor and got one for the next day. My doctor x-rayed the hand in the cast but it was still too soon to ensure the bone was not broken so the cast was to be left on for another week. Went to my Doctor after a week, the hand was again x-rayed, no broken bone, cast removed.

I did NOT have to pay anything for this care in either Province. At the time, my monthly healthcare premium was $56.00 a month.

All of my family and friends have received care at various times in their lives and NONE are unhappy with it at all. NONE of them had to pay extra for their care and those below a certain income do not even have to pay a small premium such as I did.

Here are some links for your info.

Phantoms In the Snow: Canadians Use of Healthcare Services in the United States

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/reprint/21/3/19

Canadians happy with primary health care, study says
A large-scale survey finds that most Canadians have high praise for their family doctor

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/canadians-happy-with-primary-health-care-study-says/article1229169/

[iverglas]

2. there are loads of threads here and at DU with loads of replies

Here's one from 2004. ;)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=190x1029

I gave links to other discussions in that one, and also a story of my own.

Another from 2004:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1942277

There are dead DU links in some of those old threads, of course.

More from me:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=190x25857

Some more recent -- rebutting Senator McConnell, and me blabbering about my own more recent health care adventures:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x63598

I just googled for my name and healthcare topics (melanoma, in my dad's case; diabetic ketoacidosis, in my co-vivant's case). It's handly to have a name that's all your own ... except for the people who decide to masquerade as you on the net. ;)


Actually, here, I'll just reproduce my tale from that last thread, from May of this year:


Last week I scheduled eye surgery for mid-September. It's non-urgent, in fact totally optional, and I'm fine with that. When I went pretty much completely blind in one eye over a 6-week period a couple of years ago, from an unusually rapid-onset cataract, I scheduled surgery for about 6 weeks after seeing the specialist, whom I saw two days after I saw my clinic GP, whom I saw on a walk-in basis. Took a little extra time to get the surgery because Christmas and New Year intervened.

Oh, the stories we Canadians can tell, eh?

Several years ago, my dad got transported to a major tertiary hospital's cardiac institute by ambulance on a Friday from the regional secondary hospital where he'd gone the previous Tuesday after going to a walk-in clinic, going straight for an electrocardiogram, going back to the clinic and getting sent to the ER and admitted pending transfer for the surgery. All hospitalization and surgery and transport ... no cost to us. Then the next year, all hospitalization for metastasized melanoma (6 weeks, admitted three days after first went to ER with pain and sent for tests), diagnostic procedures, specialists (oncologist, internist, orthopaedic surgeon), treatments (radiation, drugs), transportation 30 miles to home at the end, hospital bed, morphine pump, miscellaneous supplies, visiting nurse and on-call doctor ... no cost to us.

My mum is in the middle of treatment for lymphoma. Course of chemo completed, now going to big-city hospital for daily radiation, with shuttle bus from regional hospital thrown in. My sister is in the final round of treatment for advanced colorectal cancer -- chemo, radiation, surgery, more chemo, surgery to reverse ileostomy coming up soon, and all the multiple services and tests and the rest associated with this. <Update: the ileostomy reversal is tomorrow, scheduled to be 5 hours, and then she will be good to go. She did have to pay for two rounds of an expensive drug while she was getting chemo, because of a blood condition that had developed that contraindicated the chemo. $1500 a pop. She had enrolled in an optional sliding-scale provincial drug plan, which covered most of it. Knowing her, she'll be finding out why it wasn't covered and kicking up a stink. She has two kids with Lyme disease, and she's been kicking up stinks for 3 years over that - the Cdn medical profession is no more amenable to that diagnosis and treatment than in the US.>

My partner was hospitalized twice last month in diabetic ketoacidosis, bets being that he would die the first time. That first time, a weekday noon hour, we spent 10 minutes in the ER before he was called for triage (we thought he had really bad flu, maybe even swine flu, him being too recently diabetic to know about this DKA business), and he was immediately whisked to the intensive monitoring section of the ER and hooked up all the to intravenous insulin and rehydration, and cardiac and other monitors, you can imagine. And then transferred to the ICU when he was stabilized a few hours later. Oh yeah, no cost to us. Same deal the second time, only a couple more days in hospital because I refused to take delivery until he was well and truly fixed. (Big problem was he just didn't know about diabetics and flu; although since being diagnosed 3 years ago he's had endocrinologists and cardiologists and nutritionists all over him, that bit had escaped us.)

People do wait for joint replacement surgery, I hear. I know my mum, in a supposedly underserved area of Ontario, has been told she can schedule shoulder replacement surgery anytime she wants it, on a couple of months' notice.

I'm sure it is not pleasant having to wait for joint replacement surgery. As compared to not being able to get life-saving treatments like my parents and my sister and my partner have had, well, I know which one I'd take.

In any event, don't ever judge what could be done in the US with all the money that is thrown at health care down there by what might happen here after two decades of budget-slashing by right-wing provincial and federal governments. That is the source of any problems in our system at the moment, and the only source. (In addition to the fact that there are inherent costs in our system arising from having a relatively small and very scattered population, and not benefiting from the economies of scale and concentration and cost-effective use of services that are possible in the US.)

And I'm sure you all know this, but don't ever believe anything the right wing in the US says about Canadian health care. ;)

Unless the Canadian you're talking to is a right-wing ideologue too, they'll tell you it's complete bunkum.

[iverglas]

3. oops, I meant to reply to the OP

Do you have those emails, and could you post the content here - or a link to the other thread?

[daleo]

4. Mine have been fine

Seriously, for myself or family or friends. I have just never known personally of any bad outcome that I could link to public health care.

[CHIMO]

5. Yes You May

Haven't seen your other thread. So can't comment on it.

My experience compared to those in the USA, who can only count on taxes, death and medical expenses is, I don't have one of them.

I pick my own doctor, as we always have in whichever provence we have lived in.

We make appointments with a doctor when we wish.

We go to the emergency when we have the need.

We don't have to pay.

We have not had a bad diagnosis or result.

Years ago, when living in the USA and we had to visit the emergency, we were taken right in when we showed our provincial medical card. While someone who had been in pain for three days was told to go to the side. They didn't have insurance.

What part of logic do people not understand. Just visit Democracy Now or do some searching.

[iverglas]

6. so I helped myself

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6262918&mesg_id=6263036

It would still be interesting if Joe Bacon would post some of the content.

Maybe he'll come back ... since we've gone to the effort of answerng the question ...

[RedSock]

7. my kidney stones

This is what my partner posted to her blog when I had kidney stones last August:


Is there something strangely fitting about spending the anniversary of the day we moved to this great country partaking of our publicly financed health care? Allan's in the hospital, in excruciating pain - and a lot of morphine. It seems to be a kidney stone, but we haven't gotten an exact diagnosis yet. It still could be his appendix.

This morning he had what he thought were cramps. When it got very severe, and he was sweating and nauseated, I said, come on, we're going to the hospital. Driving 120 km/hour on Hurontario Street - that's a first for me! Allan was hyperventilating the whole way.

Now he's got a ton of morphine in him, and it still hurts. The doc said she thinks of kidney stones as the male equivalent of labour pains. Everything is going as well as it possibly could in the hospital. Except for the pain part.

****

For those who don't read comments, it was a kidney stone, not his appendix. It's quite a large stone, 5 mm. Apparently, with a stone larger than 6 mm, a laser procedure is used to break it up. So 5 mm is large, but still small enough to pass on its own with the help of some meds and a lot of water.

Yesterday in comments, Tornwordo noted that Allan did not spend months waiting for treatment as some people would have us believe. Indeed, there was hardly any waiting at all, as Allan was triaged within minutes of arrival, then moved into an emergency department bed and treated right away. The doctors and nurses were terrific.

Many years ago, Allan had a horrific experience with poor pain management in a hospital. Without going into long details, I'll say that while in a hospital bed, Allan was in acute, severe, untreated pain for more than 24 hours, and simply told, This is all you're getting, so if it still hurts, too bad.

Had I not been there to advocate for him - and had I not had my sister to advise me and guide me through it - it would have been even worse. In reading and speaking to people since then, I've learned a lot about attitudes towards pain management, and why some health care practitioners are resistant to it.

So that earlier experience was in the back of my mind yesterday. Will I have to fight people to get proper pain medication? Will they believe his pain and treat it? What a relief - in more ways than one - to find that every doctor and nurse that saw Allan yesterday asked, How is your pain? On a scale of 1 to 10? Do you want more morphine? (Yes, please!)

Another note on our experience, perhaps the most important one. We were able to obtain proper treatment, and will have proper follow-up care, without worrying about the cost, and without having to fight for insurance-company approval.

What would yesterday had been like for a US family with a tight budget and no health insurance? You wake up one morning, and completely unexpectedly, through no fault of your own, you are in dire pain. You don't know what's happening, you need medical care. But in the back of your mind, the worry: what will this cost me? If I pay for this, will I be able to pay my rent or make my mortgage payment?

I am so grateful that I don't have that extra burden.

Every person in North America should be free from that same burden - and could be.

******************************

I was throughly happy with my quick treatment. I went to the urologist for x-rays a couple of days later -- no charge -- and went on my way.

We have been in Canada for four years now. And after living in the US for the first 42 years of my life, I think the system here is a minor miracle.

[RedSock]

8. essential faq

This FAQ is a must-read.

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_12523427

Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.

Myth: Canada's health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.

Myth: The Canadian system is significantly more expensive than that of the U.S.

Myth: Canada's government decides who gets health care and when they get it.

Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.

Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.

Myth: Canada is a socialized health care system in which the government runs hospitals and where doctors work for the government.

Myth: There aren't enough doctors in Canada.

[Joe Bacon]

9. THANK YOU!

I want to thank ALL of you for being a big help! I've cut and pasted what you've sent and sent them off to my family where I expect a negative response back.

[Posteritatis]

10. My dad just got back from the ER

He has a moderately to extremely nasty recurring ailment which docs have been trying to track down with gradually increasing success for several years. Winds up in hospital about four or five times a year for the IV-and-morphine-and-basic-test dance; so far whatever it is is a thing where they can only really treat the symptoms, because he's reluctant to agree to any radical means of figuring out what's up (such as exploratory surgery, etc).

Generally speaking, when he has to go in for something like that, he's in the triage area for fifteen minutes to an hour, in a bed almost immediately after that, starting to feel better an hour or two after that, and heads back out the door feeling pretty much recuperated an hour or two after that. Lately there are followup tests and lectures from our GP a few days later, which have had some benefit and are as often as not of the "take the spoon out of your coffee cup if your eye hurts in the morning" form of advice along with the occasional fairly simple medication. That's helped quite a bit. This time he was in for several hours longer, but that was less due to his own situation and more due to the fact that a few people came in with three-beer-story type injuries while he was there. Fair enough in that case; there's only so many personnel to go around.

Cost has generally been the gas to get to the hospital and the price of a snack while waiting there for any relatives present.

I haven't had many encounters with the health care system in the last few years; I'm in reasonable health aside from some asthma which spiked really hard a year or so ago and resulted in a $20 inhaler that will last me six or seven months. When it gets really bad, a steroid inhaler, about $100, is added onto that that leaves me breathing better within a couple of days and has me breathing as though I never had asthma in my life for three or four months afterwards; well worth the price, IMO. I've had to get the latter inhaler twice in my life so far. Getting a refill on it would be simple and painless, but I never had a need to.

If I need to get one or the other of those, I can get an appointment with my doc on about a day's notice; I could walk in if I wanted, but he's got a fairly full schedule and I can usually afford to wait. The time from seeing him to having a prescription in my hand is usually about an hour, including the walk to the drugstore; he knows my file pretty well by now.

I also had to go to the ER a couple of years ago for what turned out to be an impressive pinched nerve very high in my leg, but which had me worrying about it being my brain instead of my leg. I probably could have gone to the GP but was a bit too freaked out about the signals coming out of my leg. When I went there, I was in triage for about an hour after the nurse said "well, that's weird" to my symptoms, and out two hours later after basic poking and prodding and theft of some of my blood and all that. They scheduled a CT scan for the following morning (and they scheduled it the following morning - I got a call at 7 saying they wanted me to come in for 8:30), sent the results on to my doc about four days later, and confirmed that it was just a nerve pinch and I'd recover over about a month, which I did. My cost in that whole situation was limited to cab fare.

As of a couple of weeks ago the province set up a health hotline staffed by nurses; if this whole situation had happened now instead of then, I could call that and feel out with them whether or not I should have gone to the doctor or the emergency room. Cost there would also be $0.00; my province is the last one to have started such a system.

As far as finding a doctor for people who have none, the last time I was in the hospital, there were a few sheets posted on every bulletin board I could see, listing all the doctors in and near the city who were accepting new patients, any particular focuses they might have, and their contact information. My friends who've moved around or into the province have had little trouble finding anyone through that, or if they did there were usually walk-in clinics available. My own GP's particularly conscientious about such things; if he has to be out of the office for more than a couple of days he has an arrangement with another doctor in town who will take his patients and vice versa. I had to use him for about a month and had no problems there either.

[JoFerg]

11. Myths ?

Canadian Health Care has been bleeding medical talent to the (better paying)South for decades!
There si certainly a shortage of skill (esp Doctors), but luckily many overseas (ie.Philipino) nursing Grads know that they are readily hired in Canada !

[Darth_Kitten]

12. Well, my health is pretty good so I'll relate this........

A few years back, my Dad had a mild heart attack.

He had triple bypass surgery within 2 weeks, I believe.
Went off without a hitch.

I currently don't have a family doctor (but that's just because I'm lazy) but if I had the flu or some other illness, I can go to a walk-in clinic and wait maybe no more than 30 minutes to see a doctor.

[offog]

13. Thanks for asking, Joe!

Nice to see someone taking the time to check us out, instead of just listening to the talking points! A lot of Canadians really want to see Americans get a better health care system.

Back in 1992, I found a lump in my breast. I went to my GP for an exam, and he referred me to a specialist. The specialist examined me and scheduled biopsy surgery on the spot. Within a few weeks, I was in the hospital for the surgery. Shortly after that, I got the result. (The lump was benign, whew!) At no point did I receive any bill. Also, no one had to contact any government bureaucrat for permission to do the exams, surgery or tests. All I had to do was show my health card.

A few years later, I was walking to the office one winter morning when fell backwards on an icy spot and hit the back of my head really good. Since I didn't have any dizziness or blurred vision, I though I was okay. Then the next evening, I came down with severe nausea and headache. The thing is, I also get migraines once in awhile. So I called the Health Hotline, which is a 24-7 call centre staffed by nurses. I explained the situation and asked the nurse if I should go down to the ER. She said yes, and fortunately, the hospital is just a few blocks from my apartment building.

When I got to the ER, I went to the reception counter, showed my health card, and explained why I was there. Someone saw me within about 45 minutes. They scanned my head, told me I was okay, and gave me pills for the nausea and headache so that I'd be able to sleep. By then, it was after midnight, and I was a little nervous about walking home alone. One of the doctors got a security guard to give me a ride home.

Again, no bills and no need to phone any government office. Ya hear that, Newt? No bureaucratic interference!

By the way, we don't have "Death Panels". If you want all possible measures taken to keep you alive, you get that. If, on the other hand, you want a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate Order), you can have that, but that's ONLY IF YOU WANT IT. No one is going to force it on you. As far as I'm concerned, End-Of-Life planning for health wishes is as important as getting a will. I sure want to make sure that my relatives and care-givers aren't having to guess about my wishes, or, worse yet, get into legal disputes.

Good luck with your "fact-finding mission"!

[snagglepuss]

14. My brother's brain tumor experience.

Tell you sister that Canadians love our health care system. My brother's story is just one of hundreds I could tell about the great care we receive.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6195277&mesg_id=6195277

[Clintonista2]

15. Well...

This isn't a personal story, but a few years back my aunt (in her mid 80's at the time) was hit by a city bus in Toronto, and had to have her leg amputated. She was in the hospital for over a month, and she never, ever had to talk to any "government health care bureaucrat" (to the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing). She never had to get any approval for any procedure, it was solely between her and her doctor. The whole thing didn't cost her a dime of course.