So the Grewal tapes have been doctored.

[Swede]

The apple dumpling gang strike again.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1117740668841_113149868/?hub=TopStories

[applegrove]

1. Oh my god! The neocons are so funny. They can't even make

good creeps in Canada. :rofl:

[Swede]

2. These guys can't do anything right.

Not ONE single thing. Oh except snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[applegrove]

4. They know they will never ever win on the issues like governance &

health care. The Tories are just one long adventure into finding some other 'issue' to run an election on - other than governance.

Oh my god - they are so sad.

:rofl:

[jim3775]

3. HA!

Thats great, those morans are so desperate.

[achtung_circus]

5. Not smart.

It's one thing to edit, to present pieces which you perceive to be favourable to you.

It's a whole other can of worms to try to splice shit together. That's pure manipulation and soooo easily detectable.

But, am I surprised?

Doen't Steven Harpoon watch CSI?

No.

[CHIMO]

6. Experts say Grewal tapes were altered

Experts say Grewal tapes were altered
Last Updated Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:30:15 EDT

Two audio experts have independently concluded that the secret recordings made by MP Gurmant Grewal were edited.

"Right here, we hear what sounds like an edit. We have a change in the frequency spectrum so something has changed there," said Dooher, demonstrating the difference while at a sound board.

His conclusions are supported by Stevan Pausak, one of Canada's leading forensic-sound analysts. Pausak was asked by Canadian Press to carry out a similar examination. He said one of the tapes has an abnormal break, indicting a section may have been cut out.

"This sounds to me, not only that this is an edit, but an edit done with something very crude," he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/02/dosanjh-tapes050602.html

Sounds like a bunch of amateurs trying to get themselves out of a hole.

[tuvor]

7. Some surprise. The recordings were made in bad faith.

They don't deserve any benefit of any doubt.

[tuvor]

8. What makes Grewal and his wife so special, anyway...

...that they were allegedly bribed, not only in advance of the budget vote, but on (IIRC) two other prior occasions?

Is he KNOWN to be a total whore, or what?

[V. Kid]

9. Defenetly stupid.

Everyone knows the Liberals are corrupt, but doing this only makes the Conservatives look corrupt too. And if your the opposition and you look corrupt then your really in trouble. It's really quite hilarious, in a sad way. Oh well hopefully it will only gain votes for the NDP, and to a lesser extent Greens.

[Maple]

10. Grewal has a history

Someone on the Vancouver Sun editorial board has a good memory:

"Grewal first made news in 1995 when he ran against Reni Masi, then president of the B.C. Liberal Party for the Liberal nomination in the provincial riding of North Delta. After agreeing to withdraw, Grewal said he had been offered a job as deputy minister by a senior Liberal official he refused to name. Grewal then jumped ship and ran against Masi as a candidate for the provincial Reform Party. He was soundly trounced.

Soon after, he switched to the federal arena and was on his way to the House of Commons. In 2002, he claimed he had been offered a position in Prime Minister Jean Chretien's government if he would cross the floor. He said the offer was made by a Liberal MP, whom he again did not identify."

http://www.members.shaw.ca/nspector4/home.htm

[Spazito]

11. I love this, it is just so 'Harperesque'!

I knew immediately that Grewal was lying when he would not release the tapes, none of them, when he first made his allegation. To release a selection after intense media questioning, imo, was beyond stupid but, then again, anything Harper and his minions touch turns to crap, lol.

The irony is it has taken the focus off the Gomery inquiry and the sponsorship scandal and onto the sleazy tactics of the faux Cons, the last thing they would want,rofl!

[SixStrings]

12. I think it's strange

that there were no threads on this before the tapes were considered 'doctored'. Seems the mentality is that if it hurts the Liberal party, everybody shut-up and keep it quiet - but if it's got anything to do with the 'hidden agenda' guy, you jump all over it.

Hypocrites. I remember reading all the shit that Belinda Stronanch was taking when she was a Con. Now that she's been bought and paid for, she's a 'woman with values'. Sad.

[Spazito]

13. You should check the previous threads before lodging that

complaint, imo, it might help your argument....or not.

Spazito (1000+ posts) Sat May-21-05 12:42 PM
Original message
Layton joins call for probe of vote-buying claims

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=190x5676

It is possible, as well, that after the initial flurry about the tapes, it bacame apparent quite quickly there was some BIG questions about the tapes themselves and the 'gentleman' involved with them so it was wise to wait and see what the FACTS were.

We now know experts are saying the tapes were doctored so it is appropriate to post that, imo.

[Mother Jones]

14. I think you have it wrong

I have yet to see anyone here applaud either this Liberal govt OR Belinda Stronach.

What you WILL see, is alot of support for a very good-for-us budget amendment, some Harpey-bashing, and a whole lot of praise for Jack Layton.

[Swede]

15. It stunk to high heaven from the git go.

Everyone knew something was up right away.

[tuvor]

16. You're so right.

This forum is so active. :eyes:

I refuse to accept the "hypocrites" label from someone who bases it on something he says "seems" to be a certain way.

Go get some hard evidence and try again.

[SixStrings]

17. Well, then

How long before someone posts this?

"Martin admits wooing Grewal"

http://www.canada.com/regina/leaderpost/news/story.html?id=cf9f122e-fcb4-47ba-b9f2-02c49cacf2fd

"OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Paul Martin said Wednesday he condoned the secret talks between top Liberals and Conservative MP Gurmant Grewal to join the Grits and was prepared to meet the Tory MP to complete a deal."

That certainly doesn't look too good does it? Where's the outrage now? Can you imagine if Harper tried this? Honestly, what kind of hate would be spewing from this forum if it was anybody but a Liberal? Be honest. It's this kind of blind loyalty to a political party that has our US neighbors in the mess they're in.

Why is it if you detest the corruption, arrogance and sleazeball tactics of our Federal Liberals you are deemed a 'neocon'? Or better yet, this attitude of 'no links, so no proof - you have no argument' -do you guys read a newspaper? Everyday, we have to read about the stink in Ottawa.

So does anybody actually believe that the Federal Liberals were NOT trying to buy votes and MP's? That this is "how the system is supposed to work"? Please, do not even try and defend these actions.

Why do people show any loyalty to Paul Martin? To me he is just another priveledged, connected, son of a former MP, who's never known what 95% of the population lives like. He's a tax evader who's received an est. $110,000,000 for his 'family' company CSL. Why no questions about this? How many more Billion dollar 'loans' and grants is Bombardier going to recieve before anyone starts asking the hard questions?

Is Harper less of a criminal? Probably not. But, it's time for a change. We need some fresh blood and energy in Ottawa. We have to show that our elected leaders are accountable for their actions. To me these past few years of Liberal rule have been a disgrace for Canada. We have the West hating Ontario, The East hating Ontario, Quebec just hates everybody - our country has never been so divided. What a legacy. It's time for someone, anyone to turn this ship around.

[tuvor]

18. That no one posted this story doesn't mean we give the Libs a free ride

The basis for your accusations is not exactly solid.

Thanks for posting the story.

[Swede]

19. I would stick with the Liberals before letting in the Alliance.

Wacko's one and all. The NDP just doesn't have the votes to achieve power,but they would be the best alternative to the Liberals. If the real conservatives had someone like Joe Clark that would be a different story.

[Spazito]

20. Having lived through previous minority governments...

deal-making is the norm, not the anomaly as anyone, including the media, knows, that is what minority governments, regardless of which political party, does. Is it right, probably not, is it business as usual with a minority government, yes.

As to the country being split and divided, it is a cakewalk right now compared to the sixties and seventies. There is not the necessity of instituting the War Measures Act today as has happened before. There is not an active Western Separatist party as there was previously although there are still faint whimpering being heard if one really looks hard.

Harper would not turn the ship around, he would run it up on the rocks and sink it all the while trying to put the blame on anyone else but where it would belong ala Mulroney.

It is interesting you assume the distrust of Harper and his faux Cons equates to a loyalty to Martin, it is a VERY false assumption. Most here would greatly prefer an NDP government over a Liberal government by far.

Canadians are pragmatic in their politics, imo, as well as being very perceptive and they can smell the falsity of the faux Cons from a mile away, it is as simple as that.

[Mother Jones]

21. Amen to that!

For me, as bad as Martin is, and as much as I don't trust him, I prefer much of the party's policies over Harper's. (i personally support decriminalization, environmental funding, same-sex marriage platforms, etc...) Not to mention how great it is for the people of this country to have more NDP involvement in federal policies/budget.

How is this 'blindly following'?


SixStrings, wanting a change for the sake of change is just too risky at this point. There's too much at stake.