I am just beginning to do a bit of research on Canada.

[Bullwinkle925]

I'm mulling over the idea of re-locating to your country and don't know where to begin as far as property searches. I currently live in the SF Bay Area and would like to find a home in a quaint town - close to medical care - with weather more sunny than rainy.

Any suggestions in helping me to 'localize' my search?

Thanks for any and all input.



:hi:

[Lautremont]

1. I propose an unlikely candidate: Winnipeg

Property: highly affordable
Medical care: abundant
Skies: blue, sunny
Cold in winter: better believe it.

I'm a big 'Peg booster, probably because all my friends live here. But it's got a lot going on; enough that I, a person who hates the cold, am more than willing to put up with it. Where else could a shiftless bohemian like me own a decent house? Nowhere, probably.

[Bullwinkle925]

3. Thanks -

How many months of cold weather? Nov - April?
I'm from the Midwest originally (Kansas) - so have some knowledge of snow and cold.
Is the town quaint? Population?
Thanks for the input.

[getmeouttahere]

7. Winnipeg is known as the "Paris of the Prairies"

if I'm not mistaken...population must be around 500,000 or more...lots of culture for a prairie city...very cold winters

[HEyHEY]

38. more like 600,000 now - economy is booming these days

ANd world class ballet!

[Canadian Socialist]

39. Don't forget

the Folk Festival, Folklorama or the Festival du Voyageur. I loves me the 'peg. Oh, and Salisbury House! And the Forks!

P.S. One of my cousins is a city councillor. For the most interesting part of the city. Guess which and you win a beer.

[Lautremont]

44. Is your cousin's name Harvey?

[Canadian Socialist]

45. No. n/t

[metis]

46. Your cousin

Lillian Thomas or Franco Magnifico

[Canadian Socialist]

47. This is fun!

One of those is correct. Hint: my cousin's name sounds like a magician.

[Lautremont]

48. Honestly, Franco Magnifico was my second guess.

He is kind of a magician: "The Man With The Smoking Bus."

[Lautremont]

9. November-April about covers it for cold weather.

The population is just over 600,000. I guess you could call it quaint, especially neighbourhoods (get used to those extra Us in words, btw) like St. Boniface, which is the largest French community west of Quebec.

Winnipeg is the kind of place which will build a showcase structure with great symbolic value - in this case a brige between downtown and the aforementioned St. Boniface - and then install a locally infamous greasy spoon restaurant, called Salisbury House, on it. This was controversial, but confirmed for me some of the more abstract reasons I love the place.

Further reasearch for you: The Weakerthans' song 'One Great City.' Probably it can be found somewhere here: www.theweakerthans.org

[High Plains]

2. Weather on the BC coast is similar to N California

but the Sunshine Coast just north of Vancouver has that name for a reason.

Go inland about 200 miles and you reach the Okanagan Valley, supposedly the warmest and sunniest place in Canada. It has several medium sized cities--Kelowna, Vernon--and good medical facilities, but seems a little redneck to me.

Go east another 150 miles or so and you reach the Kootenays, a series of mountains west of the main range of the Rockies. Lovely, a lot of counterculture, a lot of pot growing. I hang out near Nelson, a real jewel of a town of about 10,000. Access to medical treatment is okay, but not as good as in the Okanagan or the Lower Mainland (greater Vancouver).

[The Doctor.]

4. I've been thinking of Switzerland...

But then again, if we all cut and run, there'll be no one to bring democracy back to the US.

As the country spirals downward into poverty and the fundamentalists create a theocracy... keep in mind what American foreign policy might shape up as.

You may need to go farther than Canada.

[getmeouttahere]

5. But let's be real....

it's still going to rain more in any of these places than it does in the SF Bay Area...so don't have expectations of 200 days of sun per year, that's all I'm saying

[Maple]

6. The southern tip

of Ontario has hot humid summers, and just a couple of months of messy weather with little snow...in the winter. Normal rainfall.

Historic area, reasonable house prices, near the border for quick trips back if you want that. Hospitals, doctors available.

PM me if you want more details, or if you think I can help you narrow it down.

[whosinpower]

8. Shameless plug for Saskatchewan

We are the most affordable nationwide. We were the birthplace of a national healthcare plan - medicare. We are probably the most socialist of all provinces.
The people are very friendly, very generous. We are in the Guinness(not sure if it is still in there or not) book for being the most generous per capita on the planet for our annual telethon - called telemiracle....provides funding to the handicapped, seniors and those in need.

Weather is not great however, I like to think we make up for it with our populations attitudes towards each other. Winter starts in November until April. Summers are warm, sunny and beautiful. Our growing season may be short, but it is intense. We have a very diversified geography - from bald and expansive prairies, desert, to one of our best kept secrets - our beautiful and wild north, situated on the Canadian shield packed with forests, lakes, rivers.

[getmeouttahere]

11. And home to the Moose Jaw Warriors...

Saskatoon Blades, Prince Albert Raiders...lots of good junior hockey!
I didn't know that about Sask being the most generous...that's cool...so you can't lump them with Alberta as conservative, eh?

[whosinpower]

13. We are not like Alberta

And in one sense - we are very very conservative.

I like to remind people that when in Alberta, seems like everyone tries so hard to have the biggest house, the fanciest car, the most toys - even if they can't really afford it.....and in Saskatchewan - even though you can afford it - you don't show off because you don't want your neighbors to know! It isn't that we are stingy - we don't like to advertise how well financially we are doing. But, as a whole - we do go out of our way to help those who cannot help themselves.

Our taxes are high - and yet our cost of living is still less than just about every other province. Property values are undervalued here. You can get a decent house in a city for around $120 000.

All in all - it isn't the weather or the STUFF/resources that Saskatchewan has that appeals - it is her heart, her soul and her people.

[getmeouttahere]

14. So, does this mean Sask is politically liberal...

or conservative? Are you all up in arms about same-sex marriage, like it appears the pols are in Alberta, if not the general population?

[whosinpower]

16. That is a good question

Same sex marriage up here has caused contraversy. Saskatchewan has agreed with the feds on this one. Marriage in a church is up to that church to determine whether or not they will marry. LEGALLY - we cannot enforce a law that contradicts our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Same sex marriage is legal here. Having said that, had an interesting conversation with a friend who is conservative, religious and actively involved in his church. The church (mennonite) really struggled with this issue - and while personally, my friend believes the definition of marriage is one man and one woman - the church felt that the issue of TOLERANCE was more important - and my friend agreed.

I cannot say we are liberal - a better definition would be social democratic. That is Saskatchewan we are talking about - provincial politics - not federal.

[getmeouttahere]

21. That's the kind of reasoning we need more of here in the US

and also why people are having this discussion. They want to live in a country where their leaders don't attempt to force their beliefs on everyone else.

Thanks, you have painted a nice picture of what life is like in Sask.

BTW, wasn't Diefenbaker from Sask?

[whosinpower]

22. Groan....

Yes he was.

[One_of_8]

10. Has anyone here begun the process of applying to immigrate

to Canada or elsewhere?

I've been doing some preliminary research, even though I really don't want to leave my elderly parents who live near me in California.

With my educational background and length of employment in my profession, I scored a 71 on their "skilled worker class" test. I believe 67 is the lowest passing score you can get.

Plus, if you don't have a job already lined up in Canada, then you need to have sufficient funds to live on before they will consider granting your application. I think for a family of two it was around $12,000.

I'd be interested to hear of anyone else who is actually going through or has gone through the process. What is the employment situation like in B.C.? I'm a legal secretary -- I wonder how that would translate from U.S. to Canada.

[getmeouttahere]

12. I need to take that test....

I contacted an immigration lawyer in Montreal not long after the November election...he even replied...thanks for the info, I need to look into it again.

[Bullwinkle925]

18. I haven't begun the process of immigrating yet. Just beginning the

process of thinking about it. Where in CA. are you? I would be retiring to Canada. Don't know if I kept my citizenship in the US if I could qualify for any kind of healthcare there. Need to check into that.

[One_of_8]

24. I'm in northern Calif

Bay Area ... and not anywhere near retirement age yet. I am planning a vacation up in B.C. for next spring break. I just hope that the situation in the U.S. doesn't worsen between now and then.

[faithnotgreed]

36. me too~ im doing preliminary research if anyone can help out there

keep us posted since a few of us are going through this same thing

i have a post today in the lounge and wanted to start a thread here in canada but didnt want to post it since you have one here and i dont want to interfere with that

but here is my information if anyone wants to know



like many i have wanted and thought about moving to canada but it was more of a dream

so
recently i learned that i will have the money i need to qualify (which is an amazing gift and a surprising one) and im considering using it to get to where my love for all things hemp and open mind is actually shared
and of course the guess who

imagine that

im thinking perhaps in the next year and realizing there is a lot of preparation and obstacles im just trying to figure out how realistic this may be
i completely understand if no one can really help but just in case i have to put this out there ~ its too important not to

so my question:
is anyone in a position to rent a space or know anyone who is sympathetic to this common situation
perhaps advise on spaces or small jobs as i imagine this to be the largest issue
i know its not likely but you cant know if you cant ask eh

i am glad to give lots more details of course or hear any suggestions if you will pm me
as i live in washington dc my ideal is to go to another city
but one with democracy

thank you so very kindly in advance (and for even reading this far)
peace

[best left blank]

15. Bullwinkle

Would you mind telling us a bit more about what you're looking for?

[Bullwinkle925]

17. Sigh -

I'm a 55 yr old female. Husband has been battling cancer for the past 7 1/2 yrs. He will be difficult to uproot, so I am thinking of the future for myself alone. Don't know when that will be, only time will tell. I would like to find a quaint - progressive-thinking town - close to medical and airports. I could handle the cold as long as I could have access to shopping. Hiking-walking trails would be good.
Someplace that is safe for a single woman.
I'm just sick as to what is happening in this country and would hope to settle someplace that will not be as restrictive as this one is beginning to be.

[best left blank]

19. Sorry to hear that.

When you say 'quaint' how small are we talking? 1 corner store, school, library small?

[getmeouttahere]

20. Even the big cities are relatively safe...

I don't think women should be alone at night ANYWHERE, but perhaps that's just me. From what I've observed, and what my friends in big cities tell me, crime is limited to small pockets/areas. If you need to be close to airports that can connect easily to the U.S., you should live in a big city suburb, because connections from smaller airports can be bothersome.

[iverglas]

23. as usual, I have to be the voice of doom

I worked in immigration for many years. I've been out of the loop a while, but I still have an idea whereof I speak.

At 55, you probably don't have a hope in hell of immigrating. Sorry, but that's the way it is. You lose too many points for your age to make up for it any other way, practically speaking. Immigrants are almost all selected on the basis of occupational and educational qualifications *and age*.

There used to be a retiree category, although even then some connection to Canada was needed.

Your best bet is to look for property you can use as a "vacation home". Technically, you can spend months at a time in Canada as a visitor -- and from Canada's perspective, that means you can leave and come back and still be legal. You're not *supposed* to reside here year-round with only a few days' break, but if you're not working and not bothering anybody, nobody's going to notice or care particularly.

But from the perspective of things like health insurance, your problem would be with maintaining residence in the US. You would *not* be eligible for Canada's public plans, as a visitor, and you would lose Medicare coverage, or private coverage, in the US if you were not residing there. You would have to have private insurance that covered you outside the US. And that definitely would not be cheap.

(on edit, in response to your query in another post I hadn't read, about health care -- note that it is *residence* that determines eligibility, not citizenship. And in the US, that would apply to both public health plans like Medicare and private policies. This means that US citizen or not, if you were not residing in the US for the minimum necessary period of time in a year, you would lose coverage.)

So all in all, you're going to need independent means to support yourself and cover your medical expenses while in Canada, because you will not be able to work or have coverage here.

It's bad news, but it's best to know it up front. If you do find any way around it, of course, let us know!

[Bullwinkle925]

25. Well, that's pretty depressing.

I had hopes of selling my home here and moving 'north'. I never would have guessed that 55 would be too old to do that. This is the first time I have felt discrimination in a long while - other than from being female back in the late 60's and careers that were denied to me. Doesn't feel good.

[Maple]

26. Here, try this

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.html

We really need immigrants...lots of em.

[iverglas]

27. sorry!

I know it isn't good news.

The issue isn't really discrimination. It's a matter of selecting immigrants who are going to contribute to the economy, at least as much as they are going to draw from it. If there were no selection criteria, imagine the people who would be moving here in late middle age to retire, and ultimately the burden on the health care system, just for starters. I don't have to imagine, actually; a buddy of mine in the system told me about having to close the door daily on aging couples in the US south hoping to move to a kindler gentler place, when they became unable to pay for their health care and medications.

(And there is no way of making arrangements for people who promise never to draw on the social safety net if they are granted residence; someone could come here with a million dollars, swear to live on his/her means alone, and lose it in a stock swindle. Or just say "sorry, I changed my mind" -- and we could not create a separate class of Canadian residents who aren't eligible for universal benefits; they're universal, and that's the point and the principle. And it would amount to allowing some people to buy their way in, thus displacing others who would be in a position to contribute economically but couldn't afford the ante, and that's kinda not considered a good idea.)

To be honest, I'm always surprised when USAmericans are surprised at these facts. Surely none of you guys imagines that things are any different for someone wanting to go live in the US.

My colleague suggested you look at the CIC site, and of course you should. The thing is, saying "look at this" doesn't mean "if you look here, you'll find a way in". You won't. And I constantly hope that people who are told such things aren't misled into thinking there's a magic key to the door to be found.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/qual-1.html

Skilled workers are people who may become permanent residents because they are able to become economically established in Canada.

To be accepted as a Skilled Worker, applicants must:

- meet the minimum work experience requirements;
- prove that they have the funds required for settlement; and
- earn enough points in the six selection factors to meet the pass mark.

The following categories will help you determine if you can apply as Skilled Worker. You can assess your chances of being accepted. Consult each of the following areas for the current regulations regarding:

... http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/qual-5.html

Factor Four: Age
Maximum 10 <points>

21 to 49 years at time of application - 10
Less 2 points for each year over 49 or under 21

View the full age chart to determine your points.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/qual-5-3.html

53 years of age - 2
More than 53 years of age - 0

Throw in:

BA - 20 points (for the sake of argument)
English proficiency - 16 points (the maximum)
4+ years' experience - 21 points (the maximum)

... and that's it, unless you have an arranged/approved job offer (not an easy matter).

And that's 57 points. And the absolute minimum passing score is 67. And the thing is that if you're not planning to be employed, you just don't fit into the "skilled worker" category to start with, and there isn't another one available.

It's charming to say "Canada needs lots of immigrants", but the thing is that the sentiment is entirely irrelevant to any individual would-be immigrant, and it would simply be misleading to suggest that Canada's need for immigrants is somehow going to result in any particular individual being accepted, or even having a chance of being accepted.

But don't rule out the half-year here, half-year there option. It's what Canadians who winter in Florida do. And the cost of out-of-country health insurance coming in this direction would undoubtedly be cheaper. ;)

[hermetic]

28. Yeah, but but

What if someone moved up there and fell in love and married a Canadian? Would that make immigrating easier?

[best left blank]

29. Yes...

And it's actually difficult NOT to fall in love with us.

[iverglas]

31. what ...

... wasteful, wanton polluters that we are and all??

Must be that unique Canadian combination of smug superiority and striving-to-please insecurity. ;)

[hermetic]

32. works for me...

(wink)

[iverglas]

30. it would do ...

... if it wasn't pas très catholique -- if it was all kosher. ;)

Moving here and then falling in love and then getting married and then applying isn't the order of things that the authorities tend to look for.

Moving here without knowing him/her first kind of makes it look like one was on a fishing expedition for a bride/groom. And one can't "move here" without being admitted for residence anyhow.

Applying for residence is done from outside, is the way they like to see it done. This of course causes a conundrum, if one has no one to marry unless one comes here and finds someone. Again ... if it were that easy, millions would be doing it!

If one does manage to do this -- find someone one loves and wishes to marry in Canada -- one had best be prepared to explain the process. I always told my clients the two archetypal stories from my real-life experience, to prepare them for the eventualities -- or at least to prepare them to encounter the eventualities, since the whole point was that one could not really be prepared for them.

Immigration officer (we'll call him "Wayne", because that was his name) interviews Sid and Samira separately, Sid first.

Wayne: So, what did you have for breakfast?
Sid (puffing himself up with pride): Well, I had an orange and some coffee, and I made toast for Samira!

Next up, Samira.

Wayne: So, what did you have for breakfast?
Samira (sneering): Well, he had an orange and some coffee, and he burnt my toast.

Wayne laughs uproariously, and tells me to call Sid in. End of interview, application approved. You can't fake that!

Then, immigration officer (we'll call her "Georgette", which wasn't her name, because she's still in the system) interviews Jean-Paul and Jeanine, Jean-Paul first.

Georgette: So, where did you spend your wedding night?
Jean-Paul: At my apartment.

Next up, Jeanine.

Georgette: So, where did you spend your wedding night?
Jeanine: At my apartment.

Georgette looks cynical / like she wishes she hadn't just heard that, looks at me, I say Hey, don't ask me; I wasn't there. (The clients had been particularly unforthcoming with me, so it was on their heads.) Georgette ultimately informs the clients she is giving them the benefit of the doubt, and approves their application.

Six months later, with Jeanine all landed, Jean-Paul and Jeanine stroll into my office looking for a divorce. And get referred to separate counsel.

Immigration officers are not generally dummies. Now, the way things go these days, spousal applicants may not even get interviewed, especially if the application is made from outside Canada. But there are always those eventualities.

But let me not impediment to the marriage of true minds admit! I mean, I would, since I think marriage is a bullshit thing, but otherwise you have to cohabit for a year or two or something, so the thing gets complicated, not to say impossible, if it's cross-border and the parties aren't of the independent means they'd need for a couple of years of cross-border cohabiting. Remember, though -- one doesn't have to fall in love with an object of desire of the opposing sex!

Speaking of which, we seem to have had our first same-sex marriage in the family. My brother's son tells us that his mother has taken a wife. I mean, not just "a" wife, the woman she's been living with for some years now. I've always thought that five years with my brother filled anybody's lifetime quota for putting up with men. But hey, he's available, if anyone's interested in a really obnoxious middle-aged child of the 60s ... and you thought I was ...

[Canadian Socialist]

40. My husband is not a Canadian citizen

yet. However, when we went to Immigration last summer for our interview, the thing that clinched him receiving permanent residency status (in my mind at least) was the fact that we got into a fight IN FRONT OF THE IMMIGRATION OFFICIAL about whether or not we were going to go to (his country here) to have a "church" wedding. I had told him over and over again, "No church wedding; I'm an atheist." Would he listen. Noooo. So after a few minutes of us bickering back and forth, the woman just looked at us and said, "Approved. You two are definitely married." Heee. The kicker? After hubby signed the form, etc. and got his status card (which he needed to go back home for his sister's wedding - he wanted a double ceremony) we STILL were bickering; Him: CS, beautiful ceremony! Candles! Lovely clothes! Me: No. No. No.

[Bullwinkle925]

42. That's funny. A very astute immigration official indeed!!

[Bullwinkle925]

33. You're correct.

It does seem arrogant of me to want to settle in your country not thinking of the consequences of that transition. I had hoped that I would be contributing to your economy with my property tax and sales tax for purchases there.
I am just so depressed with what I am seeing in this country that I was hoping there might be an 'escape' for me in yours.
Looks like I have to re-think this.

Thanks for the information.

:scared:

[iverglas]

35. no ... I didn't mean "arrogant"

It's just that I can never figure out why USAmericans expect it to be so easy to wander up here and "get citizenship", as so many put it. Not necessarily arrogant, just a bit blinkered. Surely everybody in the US is pretty familiar with the rules that exist there -- how Mexicans may not just wander across the border and set up house. Well, Canadians can't either. And ... hmm, the French citizens on St Pierre et Miquelon can't just sail across the channel and settle in Canada, nor can USAmericans.

Residence in a country involves a whole lot of things beyond physical presence. It involves entitlement to the general social benefits provided by the society. It confers protection against being removed from the country except for very serious reasons. It entitles people to apply for citizenship, in most modern states, after meeting the conditions. (And hell ... then they can start running for office ...) The whole thing comes as a package. Again -- if it didn't, we'd be setting up different classes of Canadian residents.

Everyone in a country has to have a status, or s/he is simply there illegally. All countries control the presence of non-citizens within their borders; they reserve the right to grant or deny admission or permission to remain. A person has to meet the criteria for a certain status, and be granted that status, or s/he will be entering illegally, if the intention is to behave like someone with that status (e.g. stay indefinitely), or remaining illegally if s/he does things not permitted by the status (like work, or overstay the permitted time).

Like I said -- if you do come in under the radar and live "temporarily" in your "vacation home", and not violate any work/study kinds of rules, nobody's likely to pay much attention to you. You'd just be on an extended holiday. Euro/Anglo USAmericans certainly get to pass, or be tolerated, more easily than most other groups would -- and not to be challenged as readily because nobody really expects them to be hanging around working under the table and not paying taxes and so on. And if they do get caught, they just get told to report to the border and leave, if they haven't been dealing drugs or some such thing.

But the benefits of residence, health care being the biggie, wouldn't be available. And your income tax situation might be problematic. And I don't know how it works in the US, but some Cdn old age benefits are not payable if a resident takes up residence outside the country.

Just on the subject of property taxes, I have to point out that outsiders coming in and buying up quaint properties in small communities is the sort of thing that the communities, anywhere in the world, sometimes don't like. What happens, from their point of view, is their property taxes start going up, as property prices rise in response to demand, and housing for local residents (and workers) becomes scarcer -- among other effects on the community. We all think of ourselves as just wanting someplace quiet where we'll fit in and not interfere, but our presence has effects.

So too in macro terms; the effect of admitting large numbers of aging, non-working new residents -- we can't admit just *you* after all! -- into an already aging population, that will be putting its own increased demands on health and social services, wouldn't be neutral. Property taxes don't contribute a penny to health care or the federal or provincial govt infrastructures that provide the range of benefits residents automatically enjoy. Like, oh, the CBC!

Rethinking it, yes, probably. But there are all sorts of arrangements you could make without selling up and closing up shop. Long- or short-term renting out your property there, seasonal rental of a property here ... getting a divorce and marrying one of those nice Canadians ...

[Bullwinkle925]

41. No - you're absolutely right on !

After thinking about what I posted - it WAS arrogant to think that I could just pull up roots and move anywhere I wanted to - in order to get away from this regime.
It is wishful thinking on my part. I am so depressed at what is happening here. I think that when a person gets past the '50' year mark, it is very attractive to want to live in a quaint little cottage in a quaint little town without troubles or cares. That is being too 'Pollyanna-ish' on my part. It is my depression talking.
I had sent 2 e-mails last week; one to Dick Cheney's office and one to the White House. If they start to hunt me, can I qualify for political asylum? :think:

Ten years ago I would never have thought that I would have feelings for leaving my country. Now I feel trapped.

If I ever become single again - I don't know if I would consider
re-marrying. So that option is out too. But, one never knows what
the future holds.

Thanks for the information.


:cry:

[faithnotgreed]

37. i have a pm to you iverglas

at your convenience of course

thank you so much

[HEyHEY]

34. If you want a quint town.... Nelson BC is your place

AMazing place

[Bullwinkle925]

43. Thanks HEyHEy

I'll have to check into it. But from the sounds of some of the responders, it doesn't seem like I fit the bill for immigration.
Dammit.